Levy / ENIC

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Matt1882 said:
Our stadium took more like 20 years. And at least 10 of those were ENIC dithering on whether to develop, rebuild or relocate.
And then it was a battle with the council and only after the riots did they relent and allow it to happen. And even then it was held up by archway and still enic made changes and those delayed it further.

Is it great? Yes. Could it have been done cheaper and quicker, definitely.

Palace is in a totally different location. No idea whether they have land constraints that we had, politicians being dumb asses or local businesses being difficult. I suspect as they're not Spurs then no, none of that applies :roflmao:
Click to expand...

You seem to have got your timelines confused. A few dates for you :

enic bought initial stake in Spurs in 2001, and bought Sugar out completely in 2007.

Spurs announced first stadium plan to build in 2008 but Harringey Council will not support/cooperate . No progress is possible

Tottenham riots 2011 - Locals VERY dissatisfied with life and prospects in 'no change' Harringey eg NO housing built in donkeys years, no jobs, shit life. That's the real feedback from the riot.

Harringey Council take a couple of years to accept they need to change - but even in 2024 Harringey Council and their selected partners have not actually built ANYTHING themselves

2013 - 15 Spurs development of Cannon Road with 230+ 100% affordable homes, primary school etc

Spurs build Stadium 2016-19


The real turning point is probably the Cannons Road site - without that demonstration that Spurs are prepared to start regeneration of the area, the local political will to allow the stadium to get bult isn't there. And providing 230+ flats means Harringey now has something to move local families into. No stadium build likely without Cannons Road before it. Sadly from a football fan point of view.

Sure could certainly have been designed and built more quickly BUT only with a council who would support rather oppose a stadium build and redevelopment

The stadium is designed to ensure we can compete with other clubs - that means allowing other sports and acts wanting to come to the stadium to help pay for it. And that means spending money and time on getting as good a stadium as possible.

A cheap quickly bult stadium would have left Spurs as struggling to get into top 6 or so clubs in PL. Complete waste of time to do that. Might as well have stayed at WHL and compete with Crystal Palace - as that would be the level aimed at !;
 
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Bobcat goldthwaite said:
Palace are owned by a group of yanks worth £ 4..4 billion..steve parish is the mouth peice and has a minor stake...and I think they start redeveloping the the main stand at the end of this season.

Selhurst Park is in Norwood, 5 miles from Croydon.
My late wifes family are all palace fans from South london/ Surrey..
There catchment area is actually huge
Click to expand...
Some serious talent in their catchment
 
Spursidol said:
You seem to have got your timelines confused. A few dates for you :

enic bought initial stake in Spurs in 2001, and bought Sugar out completely in 2007.

Spurs announced first stadium plan to build in 2008 but Harringey Council will not support/cooperate . No progress is possible

Tottenham riots 2011 - Locals VERY dissatisfied with life and prospects in 'no change' Harringey eg NO housing built in donkeys years, no jobs, shit life. That's the real feedback from the riot.

Harringey Council take a couple of years to accept they need to change - but even in 2024 Harringey Council and their selected partners have not actually built ANYTHING themselves

2013 - 15 Spurs development of Cannon Road with 230+ 100% affordable homes, primary school etc

Spurs build Stadium 2016-19


The real turning point is probably the Cannons Road site - without that demonstration that Spurs are prepared to start regeneration of the area, the local political will to allow the stadium to get bult isn't there. And providing 230+ flats means Harringey now has something to move local families into. No stadium build likely without Cannons Road before it. Sadly from a football fan point of view.

Sure could certainly have been designed and built more quickly BUT only with a council who would support rather oppose a stadium build and redevelopment

The stadium is designed to ensure we can compete with other clubs - that means allowing other sports and acts wanting to come to the stadium to help pay for it. And that means spending money and time on getting as good a stadium as possible.

A cheap quickly bult stadium would have left Spurs as struggling to get into top 6 or so clubs in PL. Complete waste of time to do that. Might as well have stayed at WHL and compete with Crystal Palace - as that would be the level aimed at !;
Click to expand...
Heard Flav on TFC mention this before

ENIC bought initial stake in Spurs in 2001, and bought Sugar out completely in 2007

They had a majority stake from 2001 and ran it without input from Sugar, 2007 is irrelevant
 
Zomb said:
Heard Flav on TFC mention this before

ENIC bought initial stake in Spurs in 2001, and bought Sugar out completely in 2007

They had a majority stake from 2001 and ran it without input from Sugar, 2007 is irrelevant
Click to expand...

I think enic had largest shareholding (29.9%) in Spurs in 2001 - not the majority stake.

Big difference as you can't do what you want with that size of stake, you have to get others to agree - so difference between what you can do in 2001 and 2007 is chalk and cheese

Aside from Enic and Sugar several other substantial shareholders at that time eg Easyjet owner owned about 10% etc and many smaller plus listed on stock exchange so regulated as to what people could do (eg probable reason for enic holding 29.9% rather than more was to avoid it being mandatory for enic to have to offer to buy out all other shareholders at a higher price thann they might have wanted to pay)

Flav is a lovely guy probably.

But listen to his football opinions not his lack of knowledge of corporate matters.
 
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AberdeenYid said:
Just watched a video about the F1 Karts.

Looks fun. But a bit too much red down there.
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Glad to see I'm not the only one with a rational hatred for red. I remember the missus buying a red kettle once and sitting me down before she unboxed it to explain how it was the last one left and I don't need to get upset.

Didn't take long for me to find out where she hid it so all's well that ends well.

ron swanson computer GIF
 
NewZealand_Spur said:
Glad to see I'm not the only one with a rational hatred for red. I remember the missus buying a red kettle once and sitting me down before she unboxed it to explain how it was the last one left and I don't need to get upset.

Didn't take long for me to find out where she hid it so all's well that ends well.

ron swanson computer GIF
Click to expand...
“Sitting me down and explaining” 😂😂😂

We really ought to be less childish. Just not about this.
 
Spursidol said:
You seem to have got your timelines confused. A few dates for you :

enic bought initial stake in Spurs in 2001, and bought Sugar out completely in 2007.

Spurs announced first stadium plan to build in 2008 but Harringey Council will not support/cooperate . No progress is possible
Would have had stadium plans before even buying the club
Click to expand...

Spursidol said:
Tottenham riots 2011 - Locals VERY dissatisfied with life and prospects in 'no change' Harringey eg NO housing built in donkeys years, no jobs, shit life. That's the real feedback from the riot.
Click to expand...
Led to first actual serious conversations about what a new stadium could do for area and obstacles started being removed
Spursidol said:
Harringey Council take a couple of years to accept they need to change - but even in 2024 Harringey Council and their selected partners have not actually built ANYTHING themselves
Click to expand...
We all know they're pathetic. Lammy was a complete joke at times, demanding we don't move elsewhere but offered no help developing and then demanded we foot the bill for transport overhaul as well
Spursidol said:
2013 - 15 Spurs development of Cannon Road with 230+ 100% affordable homes, primary school etc

Spurs build Stadium 2016-19


The real turning point is probably the Cannons Road site - without that demonstration that Spurs are prepared to start regeneration of the area, the local political will to allow the stadium to get bult isn't there. And providing 230+ flats means Harringey now has something to move local families into. No stadium build likely without Cannons Road before it. Sadly from a football fan point of view.

Sure could certainly have been designed and built more quickly BUT only with a council who would support rather oppose a stadium build and redevelopment

The stadium is designed to ensure we can compete with other clubs - that means allowing other sports and acts wanting to come to the stadium to help pay for it. And that means spending money and time on getting as good a stadium as possible.

A cheap quickly bult stadium would have left Spurs as struggling to get into top 6 or so clubs in PL. Complete waste of time to do that. Might as well have stayed at WHL and compete with Crystal Palace - as that would be the level aimed at !;
Click to expand...
nothing to add to any of that

The main thing for me, is that there's no doubt ENIC would have seen matchday revenue as the big ticket. How they did it was what took so long. I recall rumours and murmers for years about new stands before it eventually changed to new stadium and that was before any official announcements.
Even Sugar saw the value in more seats.
I dont think either of them knew there was so much to gain from OTT corporate stuff though. Yes, I'm aware they had corporate boxes in the West stand at at other clubs, but I think the latest generation of stadia has really taken that up many levels.
 
Matt1882 said:
Led to first actual serious conversations about what a new stadium could do for area and obstacles started being removed

We all know they're pathetic. Lammy was a complete joke at times, demanding we don't move elsewhere but offered no help developing and then demanded we foot the bill for transport overhaul as well

nothing to add to any of that

The main thing for me, is that there's no doubt ENIC would have seen matchday revenue as the big ticket. How they did it was what took so long. I recall rumours and murmers for years about new stands before it eventually changed to new stadium and that was before any official announcements.
Even Sugar saw the value in more seats.
I dont think either of them knew there was so much to gain from OTT corporate stuff though. Yes, I'm aware they had corporate boxes in the West stand at at other clubs, but I think the latest generation of stadia has really taken that up many levels.
Click to expand...

Not totally correct - yes ticket sales have gone up, at least partly down to our 36k capacity increasing to 62k, but as a % of total revenues ?

Food and drink sales have increased hugely partly due to number of corporate seats and partly as most fans (both home and away) are consuming far more - and that's down to the range and quality available. Pricing is reasonable - impossible to compare food prices to WHL as the range is hugely different, are drink prices really much higher than WHL , really difficult to be sure.

Deloittes (published a couple of weeks ago) had last year figures (in euros) as :
Matchday 93m, Broadcast 213m, and Commercial 222m whereas in 2016 the comparative figures were Matchday 67, Broadcast 145m and Commercial 159m

Very crudely at WHL our 36k capacity gave us 67m, so with 62k capacity we should get 67 x 62/36 or 115m ...... but we actually have 93m. So have ticket prices really gone up vastly much more than a pint of beer (ie inflation) ........
 
Spursidol said:
Not totally correct - yes ticket sales have gone up, at least partly down to our 36k capacity increasing to 62k, but as a % of total revenues ?

Food and drink sales have increased hugely partly due to number of corporate seats and partly as most fans (both home and away) are consuming far more - and that's down to the range and quality available. Pricing is reasonable - impossible to compare food prices to WHL as the range is hugely different, are drink prices really much higher than WHL , really difficult to be sure.

Deloittes (published a couple of weeks ago) had last year figures (in euros) as :
Matchday 93m, Broadcast 213m, and Commercial 222m whereas in 2016 the comparative figures were Matchday 67, Broadcast 145m and Commercial 159m

Very crudely at WHL our 36k capacity gave us 67m, so with 62k capacity we should get 67 x 62/36 or 115m ...... but we actually have 93m. So have ticket prices really gone up vastly much more than a pint of beer (ie inflation) ........
Click to expand...
The Deoitte figures are an average for each fan. Assume you're talking about the £70 spend per fan per game ?
You have some "fans" paying £20k a year for boxes and some fans paying £40 for a match ticket and a sausage roll.
That's where the real money has come from. Yes, you'll probably the percentage of fans eating and drinking in the stadium has gone up, which is a win and by design, but the big bucks come from those H club seats and things like that.
 
Matt1882 said:
The Deoitte figures are an average for each fan. Assume you're talking about the £70 spend per fan per game ?
You have some "fans" paying £20k a year for boxes and some fans paying £40 for a match ticket and a sausage roll.
That's where the real money has come from. Yes, you'll probably the percentage of fans eating and drinking in the stadium has gone up, which is a win and by design, but the big bucks come from those H club seats and things like that.
Click to expand...
That 70 doesn’t include ticket price
 
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