Kieran Trippier

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It is, but I'm offering evidence that supports my theory. He remains that RB that creates the most chances in this league (1.8 per game - there's only 13 players - and it's a pretty impressive list - that better that in this league) And up until this season he was the most productive RB in terms of assists too. I accept that's dropped off this season, but even then only TAA and Pereira have more I think and both have played more minutes.

The margins between the FBs (in terms of goals and assists) being discussed are small, so what makes it as clear cut as you suggest? What constitutes a "chance" here is vague (enter cynicism when it comes to stats).

That's great, but which RB's do this more than Trippier?

Who specifically can we sign to do it? I dunno, but Walker used to do it when he was here.... Rose does it.... Even Davies does it better than KT..... Why should one assume it's not a skill-set that's out there somewhere?

Which is why I qualified it a little (so it wouldn't be by itself). We are a possession based team that like to dominate the ball, who construct via our FB's, therefore in this case I think it's relevant. And it becomes even more relevant when one of your CM's is not technically comfortable on the ball.

OK, if you disagree then elaborate.

Possesion and passing for it's own sake achieves little.

This is starting to get silly bearing in mind the side of KTs game I doubt the most is the DEFENSIVE end.

What I said made perfect sense. Sissoko role as a right sided midfielder is intrinsically linked to Trippier's as RB.

I didn't say it didn't make sense. I just don't see the relevance to our comparing FBs...

This is a false perception. He is not an intelligent reader of the game, he presses badly, he engages the opposition slowly, he doesn't want the ball off the CB;'s or Trippier when we (or he) are getting pressured. All of this I am seeing I have explained, I have posted freeze frames of him standing and pointing people away when he is in space to receive the ball, I have posted all his metrics - none of which are good, even by bottom table midfielders standards. He's not even good, by any standard definition of what other midfielders do at this level he's very bad.

You need to explain to me how he's been excellent.

I've SEEN him putting in tackles from a deeper position than the RB countless times... he holds the ball up well in such circumstances too. This is presumably what leads to some thinking he could actually do a decent job himself at RB.

Not gonna waste further time discussing Sissoko with you.... I'm surprised you have the inclination tbh.
 
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In the CL final, Tripps looked very solid. He attacked the aerial balls that came to him with vigor and won nearly all of them, as I recall.

Sure we might be able to upgrade on him, but I can't see it being cost-effective given our CL registration issues and inability/unwillingness to spend in the transfer market.

Is Levy really gonna throw down 30m for a new RB? No way, imo.

I'd agree he had one of his better games on that front, but he's not consistently "solid" though..... Having to point out individual games doesn't speak well of him considering he's a starter.

However, general reminder: The thrust of my posts here is to compare our RB options, not to simply to critique KT.
 
Who specifically can we sign to do it? I dunno, but Walker used to do it when he was here.... Rose does it.... Even Davies does it better than KT..... Why should one assume it's not a skill-set that's out there somewhere?

Again, that's a complete misconception.Walker did that less than Trippier. Walker was piss poor in the opposition third at most things, there was nothing clever or incisive that he did, Trippier is far more likely to play a clever pass. And it's not one thing or the other, Trippier's crossing is better and so is his link up play. Not vastly but better. Much more composed in the final third. Which is why he creates more and assists more.

Saying Rose and Davies are better in the final third than Trippier is ridiculous. Rose is better at running at people, but it rarely converts to something of quality, which is why he creates much less.

It's not about assuming it's a skillset that's out there or not, it's about acknowledging the reality. If you haven't seen much of it, and can't name them, how do you know? And what makes you think Trippier is so sub standard, when what you have seen suggests it's not?

I've SEEN him putting in tackles from a deeper position that the RB countless times... he holds the ball up well in such circumstances too. This is presumably what leads to some thinking he could actually do a decent job himself at RB.

Not gonna waste further time discussing Sissoko with you.... I'm surprised you have the inclination tbh.

You are describing routine stuff. RCM makes a tackle in the bottom right of pitch? His tackle rate is piss poor, something like 1.2 a game, so how often is he doing this ? What makes it "excellent"

What do you mean "holds the ball up well"? I genuinely don't know what this means does he hold the ball up better than any other players? if so which ?

This is the point. I can give you lots of anecdotal and statistical evidence that suggests Trippier is in fact pretty OK, but you seem to think he's pretty poor, but I can also give you lots of evidence that Sissoko isn't good, but you think he's excellent.

If you watch plenty of this league (and/or even other leagues) you must be able to evaluate that there are numerous other players that do the things Sissoko is trying to do, but much better/more/both, but you yourself are struggling to actually name RB's who do everything/anything better than Trippier that we could buy.

The hypocrisy is definitely not mine, if there is any.
 
Again, that's a complete misconception.Walker did that less than Trippier. Walker was piss poor in the opposition third at most things, there was nothing clever or incisive that he did, Trippier is far more likely to play a clever pass. And it's not one thing or the other, Trippier's crossing is better and so is his link up play. Not vastly but better. Much more composed in the final third. Which is why he creates more and assists more.

Walker & Rose aren't/weren't more aggressive and more likely to break oppo lines?

Saying Rose and Davies are better in the final third than Trippier is ridiculous. Rose is better at running at people, but it rarely converts to something of quality, which is why he creates much less.

See above... You seem to think I'm talking assists and possession?

I'm not.

It's not about assuming it's a skillset that's out there or not, it's about acknowledging the reality. If you haven't seen much of it, and can't name them, how do you know? And what makes you think Trippier is so sub standard, when what you have seen suggests it's not?

We have had what I seek in the past, so whether or not I can name a current protagonist is irrelevant.

You are describing routine stuff. RCM makes a tackle in the bottom right of pitch? His tackle rate is piss poor, something like 1.2 a game, so how often is he doing this ? What makes it "excellent"

What do you mean "holds the ball up well"? I genuinely don't know what this means does he hold the ball up better than any other players? if so which ?

This is the point. I can give you lots of anecdotal and statistical evidence that suggests Trippier is in fact pretty OK, but you seem to think he's pretty poor, but I can also give you lots of evidence that Sissoko isn't good, but you think he's excellent.

I think "OK" sums him up fine (I didn't say he was poor)... But they way you're framing things there's no-one better in the game (see above point when you reject the idea he can be improved upon in terms of his overall game).

If you watch plenty of this league (and/or even other leagues) you must be able to evaluate that there are numerous other players that do the things Sissoko is trying to do, but much better/more/both, but you yourself are struggling to actually name RB's who do everything/anything better than Trippier that we could buy.

The hypocrisy is definitely not mine, if there is any.

The hypopcrisy accusation is regarding your saying about people scapegoating Trippier, yet you're dragging Sissoko into a discussion that doesn't relate to him just to stick the boot in... Rich as fuck!

Again, further reminder; your hang-ups about Sissoko aren't relative to this debate.

To summarise.... I cited that KTs defensive game concerns me and that I think his crossing game is over-rated (whilst I believe Serge's 'brainfarts' are over-hyped)... You posted a set of stats that compare FBs.... SA scores favorably across the board, yet you feel none-the-less this vindicates your preference for KT....... Fair enough (to an extent), but you're banging on about possession, how shit Sissoko is and implying that KT can't be improved upon....
 
Walker & Rose aren't/weren't more aggressive and more likely to break oppo lines?

Walker rarely "broke opposition lines". Rose goes past people more often than Walker did, but then invariably wastes the ball.

See above... You seem to think I'm talking assists and possession?

I'm not.

No, I knew what you were referring to "less crossing and more penetration and link play" or something to that effect.

None of Walker, Rose and Davies (LOL) do more of this (penetration and link up) than Trippier. He just happens to also cross better than all of those too - normally.

Also, to address your earlier comment "possession and passing for it's own sake achieves little". This isone of those meaningless football pundit cliches. Possession is the method by which almost every great side achieve success (there are occasional outliers) and managers that coach it, rarely do it "for it's own sake". We don't do it "for it's own sake". And as such Trippier is an excellent conduit for that approach. And again, it's not like he doesn't look to be incisive with his passing, only Eriksen in our side makes more key passes.

We have had what I seek in the past, so whether or not I can name a current protagonist is irrelevant.

Moot

I think "OK" sums him up fine (I didn't say he was poor)... But they way you're framing things there's no-one better in the game (see above point when you reject the idea he can be improved upon in terms of his overall game).

No I'm not saying there's no one better, I'm saying there really aren't to many that are obviously better in all aspects, and you yourself are struggling come up with clear and obvious examples, which reinforces that.

I've said for two/three years, I really wanted KWP to be given the rotation place and he might prove to be a better all round package. I've said more recently, I'd happily see Aurier given a run as first choice to see if that works. There are players out there - available to us - ie not at bigger clubs etc - that we looked at - like Pereira - who is great going forward but not so great defending - as we've seen this year at Leicester - and even our scouts/Poch chose not to buy him. There's AWB at Palace - but his attacking/midfield play has a long way to develop. There's Atal at Nice - but he's very much in that Pereira mould. There’s others like Samedo (Barca), Henrichs and Sidibe(Monaco) etc etc, but none are a “fully formed package” per se. Unless there’s others out there from leagues I don’t watch much?

If clubs like ManU have Young as their RB, and are looking at paying 55m for AWB it kind of bears this out doesn't it ? That there's not exactly a wide choice of ready made Danny Alves's or Philip Lahm's out there?

The hypopcrisy accusation is regarding your saying about people scapegoating Trippier, yet you're dragging Sissoko into a discussion that doesn't relate to him just to stick the boot in... Rich as fuck!

Again, further reminder; your hang-ups about Sissoko aren't relative to this debate.

But I'm not blaming Sissoko or accusing him of things that are utter bollocks, as people are doing constantly with Trippier. I've backed up everything Ive said about Sissoko with a shitload of evidence. And I've also proven and evidenced that plenty of the silly shit aimed at Trippier is bollocks or massively exaggerated at best.

I dragged Sissoko in because it was very relevant. Look at that heat map I posted above, see who's the constant closest player to Trippier. The fact that Sissoko sees less of the ball (because he doesn't want it under pressure) means Trippier is covering his arse in midfield more often, not the other way round, and he also gets less protection than he did with Wanyama (massively) and Dier, because both of those were much better readers of the game defensively.


To summarise.... I cited that KTs defensive game concerns me and that I think his crossing game is over-rated (whilst I believe Serge's 'brainfarts' are over-hyped)... You posted a set of stats that compare FBs.... SA scores favorably across the board, yet you feel none-the-less this vindicates your preference for KT....... Fair enough (to an extent), but you're banging on about possession, how shit Sissoko is and implying that KT can't be improved upon....

But Aurier's stats weren't better "across the board" in a couple of the more important metrics they were significantly down, and also Trippier's were over a much more valid control set, Aurier's over a small amount of games. And the metrics Aurier was better weren't significant either.

Again, I've said, I'd happily see Aurier given more consecutive games to see if he can prove to be a consistent and viable alternative. If he can combine being marginally better defensively with being just as good or better offensively, great.

Again, Possession isn't some randomly pointless thing for us, it is an endemic part of our strategy, and again, Trippier uses the ball better than most in our team, and creates more chances than everyone bar Eriksen, so the "pointless possession" argument is moribund on both levels.

Sissoko I've explained again. He directly impacts Trippier's performance. I'll go further and say our terrible midfield this season has impacted the whole team's general performances. It's not a red herring.
 
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Dont mind selling him. But surely hes worth 35 to 40m?

25 is peanuts for an England international in his prime.

We are asking 19m for Jansen FFS.

Wouldn't use Jansen as a benchmark. We may be asking £19m but will be lucky to get £10m - £7/8m more like).

If we sell Trippier (and in my view there are other more pressing acquisitions/replacements - Dembele?) getting £25m will be good going.
 
Dont mind selling him. But surely hes worth 35 to 40m?

25 is peanuts for an England international in his prime.

We are asking 19m for Jansen FFS.


I can’t see us getting anywhere near that for Janssen

I would be happy with £30 million for Tripps though
 
I was looking for the Olympic 50p with the gun for years never found one. Don't know if they are valuable or not

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