Jordan Henderson

[NotThatTedHughes]

Prima facie case of whataboutery. There's plenty of room on the US threads to point out exactly how much of a car crash the US is, and most of tge best contributors (most honest( are American

A very broad measure of how a country treats its own citizens would be the democracy index. Obviously, the United States hasn’t treated all its citizens equally historically which is beyond the scope of my remarks.
The US is a flawed democracy but its ranking is higher than anywhere in the Middle East (as well as all of Africa, South America and all but 3 countries in Asia).

 

[FightingIllini]

It isn’t even the fact that they’re state funded. If they were just funding a sports league it wouldn’t really be a problem. It’s the fact that it’s used as a propaganda tool to help rehabilitate their image.

Well and the thing is, the Western press was VERY ready to hail MBS as a modernizing, liberalizing figure in the Middle East. And in certain domains there's actually even some degree of truth to that. There's a version of this story in which MBS is treated as a global hero of human rights, even if the real story was uglier than the myth building. But with the Khashoggi incident most vividly and many other less publicized instances, it's clear that there's just no sincerity to any efforts to become a less repressive regime, it's all just window dressing and bullshit. They can't, or won't, even fake it properly.

"Window dressing and bullshit" is a fair description of the football league endeavor as well. Just dumb money not knowing what it doesn't know.

The Arab world is passionate about football and has as much "right" to see global stars as Western Europeans do. There's just no real sporting integrity to this project though, and with the leadership involved integrity in general is never going to be part of the road map.

 

[Col_McCafferty]

Well and the thing is, the Western press was VERY ready to hail MBS as a modernizing, liberalizing figure in the Middle East. And in certain domains there's actually even some degree of truth to that. There's a version of this story in which MBS is treated as a global hero of human rights, even if the real story was uglier than the myth building. But with the Khashoggi incident most vividly and many other less publicized instances, it's clear that there's just no sincerity to any efforts to become a less repressive regime, it's all just window dressing and bullshit. They can't, or won't, even fake it properly.

"Window dressing and bullshit" is a fair description of the football league endeavor as well. Just dumb money not knowing what it doesn't know.

The Arab world is passionate about football and has as much "right" to see global stars as Western Europeans do. There's just no real sporting integrity to this project though, and with the leadership involved integrity in general is never going to be part of the road map.

Right? No mate, money, that's the only reason. Fans of Al-whatever, who have existed for a few years, have as much right to see the best players as fans of clubs that have existed fur over a hundred years?!

Fuck off with that, but then again you're American so what the fuck do you know about history?

Henderson is a cunt, with zero principles or at least none that aren't up for sale. He really shouldn't have been picked for England but Southgate has shown how weak he truly is with his squad selection. Players that have barely played and some Saudi loving prick.

 

[FightingIllini]

Right? No mate, money, that's the only reason. Fans of Al-whatever, who have existed for a few years, have as much right to see the best players as fans of clubs that have existed fur over a hundred years?!

Fuck off with that, but then again you're American so what the fuck do you know about history?

When Neymar transferred from PSG to Al-Hilal he went to an older club with more major honors in their history.

They have the most AFC Champions League titles of any club.

The clubs the PIF bought are in fact quite old, traditional clubs in the Saudi context.

But then again you're European, so what the fuck do you know about the rest of the world?

 

[stevee]

I can deplore the shitty treatment the US metes out to some people, and at the same time think the Saudi lawmakers are cunts. These things are not exclusive. It's entirely possible to care about more than one issue at once.

Hope this helps.

Don't bother mate.

If someone can't even say that they disagree with a law that states that homosexuals can be executed is wrong, then they're not worth talking to.

I've asked him this question many, many times and he refused to answer ;

Do you believe that homosexuals should have the same rights as the rest of society ?


It's late , so I'll ask you for a very brief answer without any of the "you can't impose western values" stuff.
It's a simple question of basic human rights for all regardless of anything else.

His answer;

Yes, I don't believe the government should be in the business of policing what people do in their bedrooms. That's the short answer since that's what you asked for.

The longer answer includes a lot more details and whether that alone is enough to strip Qatar of the world cup but that's a different topic

It's not quite the answer to the question I asked.
Saying that you don't believe the government should be in the business of policing what people do on their bedrooms is not the same as agreeing that LBGT + people should have the same rights and privileges as everyone else.


I take it that you condemn Qatar's laws on homosexuality, their regime and the makers of those laws then ?

His answer.............I'm still waiting 10 months later.

 

[Fazz]

Aristotle had a theory of causality involving 4 different causes explaining how something exists. This included a material cause so if we’re applying causal conditions to the universe that would mean the universe would also require a material cause from previously existing materials. Which is why the notions of existence differing is important because the universe is very different to everything that we know exists, mainly because according to proponents of the argument, the universe has no material cause unlike everything else we observe.

The point of the last paragraph is that if something can’t come from nothing, then why can the universe be created from nothing?

Everything we observe coming into existence does so from already existing materials. Wouldn’t that make a material cause one of the causal conditions of existence, including the universe?

Ah I understand what you meant now, apologies.

For something to exist or a causal event to occur, it requires an agent to actualise that event and/or the potential for it to occur. Since a universe from nothing proposition has neither, it is dismissed.

Creatio ex nihilo however has an agent i.e the Creator who in his being has the power to create as witnessed by the fact that there is something rather than nothing. The potential or material cause is in the power of the Creator. Some say the material cause lies in the being of the agent Himself but that isn't a necessary conclusion. The potential simply resides in the existence of a Creator alone.

Prima facie case of whataboutery. There's plenty of room on the US threads to point out exactly how much of a car crash the US is, and most of tge best contributors (most honest( are American

This is not whataboutery.

Whataboutery is protesting at criticism by deflecting and pointing at your opponents faults.

I haven't don't that. I have openly acknowledged MBS and his Saudi regime are despicable criminals. I then asked for consistency in this 'outrage'. I pointed out there is another destination where footballers go that has a terrible human rights record around the globe eg. the US. Why is the same outrage not being aimed at players going there. I also acknowledged the difference between state funded clubs and privately owned clubs as its a vital point.

I made a similar point about the Qatar World Cup- maybe that example is easier to understand. Qatar was attacked for its human rights record with people saying it should never have been awarded the world for its human rights abuses.

I have no problem with that. People are free to boycott what they want. I then asked, now that the next world cup will be held in the US - another country with a terrible record - will we have a similar outcry? It is a call for consistency and not whataboutery- unless the definition of whataboutery has been misunderstood.

After all, if its human rights abuses we're worried about, we should expect similar level of outrage, if not more. You and I both know however that this won't be the case for the majority of the anti-Qatar brigade.

This is what makes me think a lot of the outrage was virtue-signalling bullshit or a politically motivated sham with no real concern for human rights.

Don't bother mate.

If someone can't even say that they disagree with a law that states that homosexuals can be executed is wrong, then they're not worth talking to.

I've asked him this question many, many times and he refused to answer ;

His answer;



His answer.............I'm still waiting 10 months later.

Your own post gives my answer clearly. Maybe you don't have the ability to see it.

This was your question:

"Do you believe that homosexuals should have the same rights as the rest of society ?"

And my first word outlined my answer. I'll put it into capitals for you to make it even more clearer:


The meaning of the word yes? A word used as a function to express assent or agreement.

And then I explained why I don't think the government has any right to interfere in people's bedroom habits or preferences.

Glad I could clarify.

Now a question for you. Will you show the same outrage for the world cup being hosted in the US as you did for Qatar?

 

[LEGO Boy]

This outrageous hypocritic is absolutely dusted at international level. Did you see him tonight? Bloody miles off the pace

 

[Airfixx]

You're shit.

Fuck off.

 

[SpursDNA]

If the Saudis want to waste tons of their money setting up the equivalent of the Senior Tour for football then good on them. Have they signed even 5 players younger than 30 years old? The Saudis over paying for players that teams in Europe don’t want - seems like a positive for European football/teams. Wish they’d pay us 30M for Tanguy but I guess he’s too young for Saudi football.

Wake me up when top players in their prime start going to Saudi or they get a TV contract in England that pays more in a year than Jordan Henderson’s weekly wage.

Report: Saudi Pro League secures ‘US$500k’ UK TV deal with DAZN - SportsPro

Big-spending soccer league lands broadcast coverage in UK, Germany, Austria and Asia.

www.sportspromedia.com

When the oil runs out or becomes obsolete - the Saudis are going to wish they didn’t flush their money down the toilet on this Senior Tour Football League. Mugs.

 

[SpiderSpurs]

 

[stevee]

Ah I understand what you meant now, apologies.

For something to exist or a causal event to occur, it requires an agent to actualise that event and/or the potential for it to occur. Since a universe from nothing proposition has neither, it is dismissed.

Creatio ex nihilo however has an agent i.e the Creator who in his being has the power to create as witnessed by the fact that there is something rather than nothing. The potential or material cause is in the power of the Creator. Some say the material cause lies in the being of the agent Himself but that isn't a necessary conclusion. The potential simply resides in the existence of a Creator alone.



This is not whataboutery.

Whataboutery is protesting at criticism by deflecting and pointing at your opponents faults.

I haven't don't that. I have openly acknowledged MBS and his Saudi regime are despicable criminals. I then asked for consistency in this 'outrage'. I pointed out there is another destination where footballers go that has a terrible human rights record around the globe eg. the US. Why is the same outrage not being aimed at players going there. I also acknowledged the difference between state funded clubs and privately owned clubs as its a vital point.

I made a similar point about the Qatar World Cup- maybe that example is easier to understand. Qatar was attacked for its human rights record with people saying it should never have been awarded the world for its human rights abuses.

I have no problem with that. People are free to boycott what they want. I then asked, now that the next world cup will be held in the US - another country with a terrible record - will we have a similar outcry? It is a call for consistency and not whataboutery- unless the definition of whataboutery has been misunderstood.

After all, if its human rights abuses we're worried about, we should expect similar level of outrage, if not more. You and I both know however that this won't be the case for the majority of the anti-Qatar brigade.

This is what makes me think a lot of the outrage was virtue-signalling bullshit or a politically motivated sham with no real concern for human rights.



Your own post gives my answer clearly. Maybe you don't have the ability to see it.

This was your question:

"Do you believe that homosexuals should have the same rights as the rest of society ?"

And my first word outlined my answer. I'll put it into capitals for you to make it even more clearer:

"YES..."

The meaning of the word yes? A word used as a function to express assent or agreement.

And then I explained why I don't think the government has any right to interfere in people's bedroom habits or preferences.

Glad I could clarify.

Now a question for you. Will you show the same outrage for the world cup being hosted in the US as you did for Qatar?

Nice but of editing.

This is the question I'm waiting for the answer on ;

I take it that you condemn Qatar's laws on homosexuality, their regime and the makers of those laws then ?I

 

[Fazz]

Nice but of editing.

This is the question I'm waiting for the answer on ;

I answered your question and even capitalised it for you. You ignored mine however. Give me an answer

 

[Fazz]

If the Saudis want to waste tons of their money setting up the equivalent of the Senior Tour for football then good on them. Have they signed even 5 players younger than 30 years old? The Saudis over paying for players that teams in Europe don’t want - seems like a positive for European football/teams. Wish they’d pay us 30M for Tanguy but I guess he’s too young for Saudi football.

Wake me up when top players in their prime start going to Saudi or they get a TV contract in England that pays more in a year than Jordan Henderson’s weekly wage.

Report: Saudi Pro League secures ‘US$500k’ UK TV deal with DAZN - SportsPro

Big-spending soccer league lands broadcast coverage in UK, Germany, Austria and Asia.

www.sportspromedia.com

When the oil runs out or becomes obsolete - the Saudis are going to wish they didn’t flush their money down the toilet on this Senior Tour Football League. Mugs.

Agree, from a purely Saudi viewpoint, this is a colossal waste of money and resources. There's no way Saudi football will be able to compete with the lure of the established European leagues.

 

[stevee]

I answered your question and even capitalised it for you. You ignored mine however. Give me an answer

Nope, this is the question to which you capitalised ;

Do you believe that homosexuals should have the same rights as the rest of society ?"

And my first word outlined my answer. I'll put it into capitals for you to make it even more clearer:

"YES
..."

You have never answered;

I take it that you condemn Qatar's laws on homosexuality, their regime and the makers of those laws then ?


Now is your chance to do so.

 

[Pepperami]

lol I never for one second thought he was a LGBT ambassador for anything other than a PR exercise organised by his club. I'd say most people were of the same opinion but wouldn't admit it.

Liverpool wanted rid so like any footballer he's thinking of his long term financial security and all that PR bullshit got thrown out the window.

Can't say I blame the lad.

 

[Spurs_1987]

lol I never for one second thought he was a LGBT ambassador for anything other than a PR exercise organised by his club. I'd say most people were of the same opinion but wouldn't admit it.

Liverpool wanted rid so like any footballer he's thinking of his long term financial security and all that PR bullshit got thrown out the window.

Can't say I blame the lad.

To me like anyone else who goes to that country, they may as well have retired.

I refuse to watch anything that emanates from that medieval shithole.

 

[Mrs Perryman]

I'd have a lot more respect for him, if he just came out and said that he's only going out there for the money. The minute anyone says it's not about the money, it usually is.