Jewish chronicle article on Spurs and the Y-Word

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I'm not comfortable at all with how many people are adamant that their stance on this topic is 100% correct, and are unwilling to accept there may be some legitimacy to the other side of the argument.

For what it's worth, the above is aimed at nobody in particular, but it is far more difficult a subject than many seem to think.
 

Wellsey

Supporter
Baddiel, Finklestein and the fucking Moose should have it pointed out that without their two racist clubs we wouldn't have had to show the solidarity.
 

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I hope the link below works coz it takes you to an interesting piece by Gerald Jacobs, literary editor of the Jewish Chronicle; in it he asserts that the Spurs fans' chanting of Yid, Yid army etc is a wholly positive phenomena (in his opinion). There are a couple of points that I find compelling;

1. The term 'Yid' is not an inherently racist term, unlike 'nigger', which has always been a term of racist abuse. Using the word Yid in the way we use it is positive; any attempt to claim the usage of these words has the same meaning is flawed.
2. The furore around Spurs fans use of Yid is mostly stoked by the media and establishment figure who know nothing about being at a Spurs match. People have opinion's about issues but to claim something is racist without fully understanding the context is nonsense.

Couple of my own thoughts;

In terms of giving offence; well, I don't think things should be banned just because they give offence to a section of society. The Life of Brian offended thousands of Christians back in the day (again, many of whom hadn't seen it) who wanted it banned - a hilarious and beautiful work of art!

In terms of the Yid chants inflaming racism; this claim is completely upside down. If a gay couple are abused or attacked for, say, kissing, in public; should they be prosecuted, or their attackers?

Finally, if you try to ban something - look what it does!

https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/the-outrage-over-tottenham-hotspur-fans-chanting-yid-reminds-me-of-a-joke-1.478784
 

Mrs Perryman

I'm a Cockney Malteser
I completed it today, as I didn't want to rush it and I wanted to give the questions proper consideration. Like everyone here, wouldn't dream of using it outside of supporting our team. With that in mind, it seems wrong to use it at all. However, until other supporters stop their abuse, I probably will continue to sing it.
For me, it's all about context.
 
But that's the psychology of the playground. I don't think that works with adults, have you noticed Chelsea and West Ham fans deciding that anti-semitism is a spent force because of our ownership of the Y word?
No i haven’t personally.
I still get racist abuse from football supporters in 2019. Chelsea, West Ham and Leicester. All said with a smile “as banter”.
 
In terms of the Yid chants inflaming racism; this claim is completely upside down. If a gay couple are abused or attacked for, say, kissing, in public; should they be prosecuted, or their attackers?
Before starting I think you've thought out and articulated your response well, so I'm not going on the attack here BUT!

I think we have to consider our actions within our own context, so whether you think shouting 'Yid' is right or wrong has to be the question that rather than what the other guy would do.

If we stopped using the term, it would not stop rival fans being antisemitic, let's get that right, I wonder if it will make the abusers look worse, we stopped using the word and surprise surprise, they're still racist.

The reasons I think we'd stop would be if there was a strong message from Jewish people taking genuine umbrage, though if it's seen as Chelsea/West Ham/Woolwich supporters then it will look like whataboutisms. The other more likely reason would be an incremental reduction over time and that seems more likely if it ceases to feel appropriate to the club/supporters.

This is tricky, outside of the ground/Tottenham context, most folk would not use the term 'Yid' because we know it's an offensive word that can be considered racist. If you consider that statement to be true, even if we keep using it and the motives behind it are good, we need to retain that awareness at least.
 
I hope the link below works coz it takes you to an interesting piece by Gerald Jacobs, literary editor of the Jewish Chronicle; in it he asserts that the Spurs fans' chanting of Yid, Yid army etc is a wholly positive phenomena (in his opinion). There are a couple of points that I find compelling;

1. The term 'Yid' is not an inherently racist term, unlike 'nigger', which has always been a term of racist abuse. Using the word Yid in the way we use it is positive; any attempt to claim the usage of these words has the same meaning is flawed.
2. The furore around Spurs fans use of Yid is mostly stoked by the media and establishment figure who know nothing about being at a Spurs match. People have opinion's about issues but to claim something is racist without fully understanding the context is nonsense.

Couple of my own thoughts;

In terms of giving offence; well, I don't think things should be banned just because they give offence to a section of society. The Life of Brian offended thousands of Christians back in the day (again, many of whom hadn't seen it) who wanted it banned - a hilarious and beautiful work of art!

In terms of the Yid chants inflaming racism; this claim is completely upside down. If a gay couple are abused or attacked for, say, kissing, in public; should they be prosecuted, or their attackers?

Finally, if you try to ban something - look what it does!

https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/the-outrage-over-tottenham-hotspur-fans-chanting-yid-reminds-me-of-a-joke-1.478784
Before starting I think you've thought out and articulated your response well, so I'm not going on the attack here BUT!

I think we have to consider our actions within our own context, so whether you think shouting 'Yid' is right or wrong has to be the question that rather than what the other guy would do.

If we stopped using the term, it would not stop rival fans being antisemitic, let's get that right, I wonder if it will make the abusers look worse, we stopped using the word and surprise surprise, they're still racist.

The reasons I think we'd stop would be if there was a strong message from Jewish people taking genuine umbrage, though if it's seen as Chelsea/West Ham/Woolwich supporters then it will look like whataboutisms. The other more likely reason would be an incremental reduction over time and that seems more likely if it ceases to feel appropriate to the club/supporters.

This is tricky, outside of the ground/Tottenham context, most folk would not use the term 'Yid' because we know it's an offensive word that can be considered racist. If you consider that statement to be true, even if we keep using it and the motives behind it are good, we need to retain that awareness at least.
As a different minority, I’d never use the word outside of singing with fellow Spurs fans. Being welcoming to Jews and other cultures is a part of being a Spurs fan to me.
How many fucking times?? Its not complicated... The word YID means/MEANT 'Friend/mate' in Yiddish... ask any Jew you like! (Not the Millenial ones, they don't have a fucking clue!)

Jews were NEVER offended by a word THEY USED ABOUT THEMSELVES... ("He's a nice YIDDESHE boy" ask your Bubba or Zeida, they'll yell ya!)

... it was never a word to 'reclaim' ...it was ours in the first place!

I think you'll find it was the racist bigots of the '60s/'70s onwards, (and yes, nice YIDDESHE boys like Baddieil's Chelsea, and Ian Abrahams' West Ham) who twisted, raped and skewed the fuck out of the true MEANING of the word, that an entire generation of Football fans have even felt the need to RECLAIM IT...

Ask any decent Hindu, with a PEACEFUL SWASTIKA symbol on their wall, what it means to have a symbol/word ripped away from you, that you have to RECLAIM something that was stolen from you and warped into something SO ugly, the world collectively forgot it's original meaning....

Has everyone gone fucking mad?

I'm not offended by the word YID, used in a positive context... I AM offended by being called a dirty fucking JEW.... however, with no MENTION of the "Y word" (lest we use it!)

I'm not offended by other Spurs fans using the word YID, regardless of their religious background....
I AM offended by a hate-filled anti Semite who decides that making hissing noises on a matchday in N17 is perfectly justified, just because he got around it 'cos he doesn't mention the word YID!

When did the definition of the word CONTEXT suddenly fall out of the collective unconsciousness of society?
It's FUCKING context people!
 
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If we stopped using the term, it would not stop rival fans being antisemitic, let's get that right, I wonder if it will make the abusers look worse, we stopped using the word and surprise surprise, they're still racist.
It would be like dressing our kids in long trousers and duffle coats to stop Paedophillia!
The problem doesn't go away by covering up the abused... that's just papering over the cracks...

If you wanna stop racism and anti-Semitism... GO FOR THE FUCKING RACISTS & ANTI-SEMITES.... not the ethnic minorities and people trying to stand alongside them in solidarity...

We're not the fucking criminals here!!

We may as well convict all rape victims for being raped, whilst letting their abusers go free...
it's So fucking warped it's ALMOST become funny!
 

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I'll always shout YIIIIIID ARRRRRRMY and give it YIDS YIDS YIDS YIDS.
'Oh we're the Yids Oh we're the Yids oh we', and 'Oh when the Yids going steaming in'.
'Who who who let the Yids out'.

Anyway fuck this thread, it's going on ignore.

 
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