Financial Fair Play

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I like to think I have a degree of business acumen but can anyone explain why investing in a football club is a good idea?

How the hell can a loss that villa recorded be in line with strategic objectives? All for a gamble on champions league money? Crazy.

Us and a couple of other clubs aside , all I hear is losses being reported and it’s worse as you drop down the leagues.



There was a youngish bloke who got rich by selling his biz. He thought that he was rich enough to buy Crystal Palace. This was a mistake. He hired Terry Venables on a "Heads Terry wins, Tails you lose" contract. Now, you could pay Terry Venables a million quid a minute and he would still steal from you. Terry even nicked the tractor used to cut the grass at the Palace training ground.

Things quickly went tits. El Tel left soon afterwards.
 
I like to think I have a degree of business acumen but can anyone explain why investing in a football club is a good idea?

How the hell can a loss that villa recorded be in line with strategic objectives? All for a gamble on champions league money? Crazy.

Us and a couple of other clubs aside , all I hear is losses being reported and it’s worse as you drop down the leagues.


They are all looking at the overall increase in value of their investment rather than year on year earnings

We, for example, have increased in value from c. £100m to £4bn in 20 years of Enic's ownership and there's probably still someway to go before that starts to stall
 
I like to think I have a degree of business acumen but can anyone explain why investing in a football club is a good idea?

How the hell can a loss that villa recorded be in line with strategic objectives? All for a gamble on champions league money? Crazy.

Us and a couple of other clubs aside , all I hear is losses being reported and it’s worse as you drop down the leagues.

Depends, some owners own clubs to increase it's value over time and sale (ENIC/FSG), some use them as commodities to get credit for other business ventures (Glazers), some do it to launder their cash (Roman), some do it to Sportswash (Abu Dhabi/Saudi), some do it out of love and passion knowing that the returns won't be as great (KPIG)

Everyone is different.
 
I think that’s a COVID period which means it’s treated differently. Not sure how — but wasn’t there some relief for 19/20/21? Perhaps you can let post the rules relating to these two seasons? I honestly don’t know how they affect the rolling period.

I think they’re going to be able to bring that down with exclusions. The only contracts they have expiring at the end of 24 are Zaniolo and Lenglet. Callum Chambers in 25. The nucleus of their squad is tied down.
If they make UCL, they’ll have additional wiggle room for a (cheap ish? ) signing/loan or two next year. My only concern is how 19-21 affects the numbers.

Villa's big issue is revenue - the accounts show they have just over £200m now, Spurs by comparison will have a little over £500m when accounts published later this month (and had over £400m last year), and of course Woolwich and Chelsea are not far behind whilst both Mancs and Liverpool are ahead - so a big gap between top 6 revenue earners and Villa.

Even if Villa were to get CL and do well their revenues would be a little over £300m ....... so they will need a few years just boosting their revenues (whether that's expanding ground capacity , increasing commercial/sponsorship revenues etc )
 
Villa's big issue is revenue - the accounts show they have just over £200m now, Spurs by comparison will have a little over £500m when accounts published later this month (and had over £400m last year), and of course Woolwich and Chelsea are not far behind whilst both Mancs and Liverpool are ahead - so a big gap between top 6 revenue earners and Villa.

Even if Villa were to get CL and do well their revenues would be a little over £300m ....... so they will need a few years just boosting their revenues (whether that's expanding ground capacity , increasing commercial/sponsorship revenues etc )
Their Manager already said thy have to sell one asset in the summer
 
They sold some highly rated homegrown players (with buy backs) last season to help with ffp.

Archer ( mandatory buyback when Sheffield are relegated)being the obvious one but also Philogene
 
Zomb and I have discussed this before.
It isn’t.
Levy and that dodgy cunt Lewis have done ok out of it. Borrowed 30M, now sitting on 4BN+. Why anyone would pay that I have no idea…. Sportswashing, gambling on further growth of the PL and in turn club value? No-one is gonna make a return as owner year on year apart form ginger sidies Glazers and the 30M they pinch annually
 
Depends, some owners own clubs to increase it's value over time and sale (ENIC/FSG), some use them as commodities to get credit for other business ventures (Glazers), some do it to launder their cash (Roman), some do it to Sportswash (Abu Dhabi/Saudi), some do it out of love and passion knowing that the returns won't be as great (KPIG)

Everyone is different.
Bloom has done ok. Invested c.400M of his own money and will make that back and more when he sells (minority or majority). Levy has invested absolutely zero of his own money and will make billions
 
Bloom has done ok. Invested c.400M of his own money and will make that back and more when he sells (minority or majority). Levy has invested absolutely zero of his own money and will make billions
You’re talking about the apex clubs at the top of the pyramid whose owners hope to grow the game and make profit on the sale of the investment and, even then, I’m not sure anyone is expecting the kind of exponential / explosive growth we saw in the EPL’s infancy which has made owners look much harder at cost control. The worst team in the NFL, Washington, with a whole host of problems and who sit 30th in the league in attendance, sold for more than United.
Outside of the top tier clubs, football is losing money hand over fist.
 
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Premier League clubs will face sanctions if they try to secure inflated sponsorship or transfer deals with companies, organisations or other teams connected to their owners, new rules published in the top flight’s handbook have revealed.

The revised rules, which caused a bitter split in the league last month, are much tougher and aim to block clubs bypassing financial controls by earning unfair amounts via means such as sponsorship from a company linked to an owner, or by signing a player cheaply from another club in the same ownership group.

The detail of the new rules helps explain why some clubs were pushing strongly for them — and why state-connected clubs such as Manchester City and Newcastle United, or those in multi-club ownership models, were so fiercely opposed.

The updated Premier League handbook states that the rules “seek to ensure the long-term financial sustainability of clubs by extinguishing reliance on enhanced commercial revenues received from entities linked to the club’s ownership”. It adds that the rules are aimed at “fairness amongst clubs, so that clubs are not able to derive an unfair advantage over domestic competitors by increasing revenues or reducing costs via arrangements with entities linked to a club’s ownership”.

The burden of proof is now on clubs to show deals with associated companies or organisations are of “fair market value”. The deals include sponsorship agreements with connected companies, or transfer of players between clubs in the same ownership group. The rules put the onus on the clubs to ensure they do not try to push the limits on the fairness of deals.

Clubs such as Liverpool, above, Manchester United, Arsenal and Tottenham, part of the traditional elite, voted in favour of the new rules

Clubs such as Liverpool, above, Manchester United, Woolwich and Tottenham, part of the traditional elite, voted in favour of the new rules
GETTY IMAGES

Clubs are also now required to provide a declaration from a director of the associated party that they consider the deal to be fair market value.

A vote on the new rules went through last month — it was thought to be the closest in the Premier League’s history, with 12 clubs voting for the changes and six against, with two abstaining, which just passed the threshold of a two-thirds majority. After the new rules were voted through, some clubs were furious, with sources claiming it indicated a fractured relationship and a lack of unity within the league.

The “old guard” such as Liverpool, Manchester United, Woolwich and Tottenham Hotspur, who voted in favour of the new rules, have been outstripped by Manchester City in terms of commercial income. City’s sponsorship deals for 2022-23 were worth 13.6 times more than they were at the time of the Abu Dhabi takeover in 2008 — growing from £25 million to £341.4 million.

During that same period of time, United’s have gone up 4.7 times to £302.9 million and Liverpool’s five times to £272 million.

In 2017, before City had overtaken their English rivals, La Liga made a complaint to Uefa pointing out the club had “uncommonly high commercial revenue”, with several sponsors being companies “directly controlled by the United Arab Emirates”.

The Premier League’s changes include:

⬤ the “burden of proof” is now on the club to demonstrate that a deal is of fair market value;

⬤ each club submitting an associated party transaction (APT) shall procure “a declaration by a director (or equivalent) of the relevant associated party by way of confirmation that they consider the [deal] to be at fair market value”;

⬤ new breaches of the rules include “failure by a club to use all reasonable care to ensure that an APT is at fair market value” and “failure by a club to use all reasonable care to ensure it does not arrange or facilitate a transaction between a player, manager or senior official of that club and a third party that is not at fair market value”; and

⬤ the Premier League can demand evidence that a club has “effective procedures and processes (being clear, practical, accessible, and effectively implemented and enforced)” in place for ensuring an APT is at fair market value and “evidence of such procedures and processes being followed”.
 

Premier League clubs will face sanctions if they try to secure inflated sponsorship or transfer deals with companies, organisations or other teams connected to their owners, new rules published in the top flight’s handbook have revealed.

The revised rules, which caused a bitter split in the league last month, are much tougher and aim to block clubs bypassing financial controls by earning unfair amounts via means such as sponsorship from a company linked to an owner, or by signing a player cheaply from another club in the same ownership group.

The detail of the new rules helps explain why some clubs were pushing strongly for them — and why state-connected clubs such as Manchester City and Newcastle United, or those in multi-club ownership models, were so fiercely opposed.

The updated Premier League handbook states that the rules “seek to ensure the long-term financial sustainability of clubs by extinguishing reliance on enhanced commercial revenues received from entities linked to the club’s ownership”. It adds that the rules are aimed at “fairness amongst clubs, so that clubs are not able to derive an unfair advantage over domestic competitors by increasing revenues or reducing costs via arrangements with entities linked to a club’s ownership”.

The burden of proof is now on clubs to show deals with associated companies or organisations are of “fair market value”. The deals include sponsorship agreements with connected companies, or transfer of players between clubs in the same ownership group. The rules put the onus on the clubs to ensure they do not try to push the limits on the fairness of deals.

Clubs such as Liverpool, above, Manchester United, Woolwich and Tottenham, part of the traditional elite, voted in favour of the new rules

Clubs such as Liverpool, above, Manchester United, Woolwich and Tottenham, part of the traditional elite, voted in favour of the new rules
GETTY IMAGES

Clubs are also now required to provide a declaration from a director of the associated party that they consider the deal to be fair market value.

A vote on the new rules went through last month — it was thought to be the closest in the Premier League’s history, with 12 clubs voting for the changes and six against, with two abstaining, which just passed the threshold of a two-thirds majority. After the new rules were voted through, some clubs were furious, with sources claiming it indicated a fractured relationship and a lack of unity within the league.

The “old guard” such as Liverpool, Manchester United, Woolwich and Tottenham Hotspur, who voted in favour of the new rules, have been outstripped by Manchester City in terms of commercial income. City’s sponsorship deals for 2022-23 were worth 13.6 times more than they were at the time of the Abu Dhabi takeover in 2008 — growing from £25 million to £341.4 million.

During that same period of time, United’s have gone up 4.7 times to £302.9 million and Liverpool’s five times to £272 million.

In 2017, before City had overtaken their English rivals, La Liga made a complaint to Uefa pointing out the club had “uncommonly high commercial revenue”, with several sponsors being companies “directly controlled by the United Arab Emirates”.

The Premier League’s changes include:

⬤ the “burden of proof” is now on the club to demonstrate that a deal is of fair market value;

⬤ each club submitting an associated party transaction (APT) shall procure “a declaration by a director (or equivalent) of the relevant associated party by way of confirmation that they consider the [deal] to be at fair market value”;

⬤ new breaches of the rules include “failure by a club to use all reasonable care to ensure that an APT is at fair market value” and “failure by a club to use all reasonable care to ensure it does not arrange or facilitate a transaction between a player, manager or senior official of that club and a third party that is not at fair market value”; and

⬤ the Premier League can demand evidence that a club has “effective procedures and processes (being clear, practical, accessible, and effectively implemented and enforced)” in place for ensuring an APT is at fair market value and “evidence of such procedures and processes being followed”.

This is good.

No doubt some of these fuckers will find a way around it but it will pump the breaks on a little bit, Newcastle must be fuming.
 
You’re talking about the apex clubs at the top of the pyramid whose owners hope to grow the game and make profit on the sale of the investment and, even then, I’m not sure anyone is expecting the kind of exponential / explosive growth we saw in the EPL’s infancy which has made owners look much harder at cost control. The worst team in the NFL, Washington, with a whole host of problems and who sit 30th in the league in attendance, sold for more than United.
Outside of the top tier clubs, football is losing money hand over fist.
Not sure on your point

Washington vs Man U sale price surely shows that clubs are undervalued - owners willing to lose money in short and medium term and gamble that value increases in line with NFL?

Yes talking PL as opposed to champ and below
 
This is good.

No doubt some of these fuckers will find a way around it but it will pump the breaks on a little bit, Newcastle must be fuming.
Good

Filthy medieval scumbags have no place in the PL.

Get stuck into Baldies, cheating dopers too. Absolutely laughable they try and justify an annual revenue comparable with Real and Utd
 
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