England squad

[LeParisien]

What would Klopp need to install? The top teams in the Prem currently play very similar styles. Technical, high possession Football with patterns of play that are suited to the skillsets of the players. Under Southgate we do that in patches, and when we do we look superb. We'd do that a helluva lot more under Klopp, with players essentially doing the same as they do in their club Football.

He'd elevate us simply by having players doing what they do week in, week out.

You hear comparisons from a handful, but you attribute them to everyone. I've already acknowledged Deschamps achievements, he most definitely is a level above Southgate, but I don't see him as 'elite' because I feel he could and should have gotten even more out of that France team.
The playing career is a straw man argument as well. Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho hardly had stellar playing careers.

Clearly if you put one of the top two or three managers in the world in charge then you’ll get better results - that is beyond doubt. But I think you are still underestimating the difficulty of setting patterns of play in the time international managers have. The intricacies come from playing together regularly and that can’t happen for most international teams. The best counter evidence I can think of is the tikitaka style of Spain but even then then nearly every last player came from Barcelona or Real Madrid with the entire midfield from one very successful club side. The patterns weren’t set at international training camps.

The playing career is not a strawman. I didn’t make the claim that having a successful playing career was a necessary condition for being a successful manager. I brought Deschamps’ playing career as an example of his experience fighting (and leading) big teams to the biggest trophies. To pretend that this experience has no value for a coach is surely wrong. And no, a successful playing career is not a sufficient condition either.

 

[Perryman]

International football is really down to the players you have at your disposal . You don’t have the players long enough to really coach a system . Argentina won the World Cup with a manager no one had heard of, and probably cannot remember who he was. In fact, he had never been a manager, he was a scout on opposition and got the job because he was all they could afford.
They had Messi plus the kpr, Romero, De Maria. Full backs were not top class. Montiel has ended up at Forest.Not the usual 4 or 5 world class players pundits say that you need to win a world cup or euros.
I would say there is not a team in the world with those 4 or 5 players.
We have Kane and Bellingham. Some of the others are very good but not world class .
There is not an outstanding team in Europe which is why we have a big chance to win it. Just need to turn up and perform and not make stupid mistakes like Tuesday.

 

[Deuterz]

Which international manager would you take at spurs ? Maybe just Nagelsmann.

They’re not the same thing at all. What Deschamps (a player who won everything as a player at club and international level) knows a thing or two about is setting winning cultures. The team was in disarray when he took over and he has always prioritised team harmony (le collectif). He was able to banish Benzema, one of the truly elite 9s of the past 10/15 years even while he was winning 4 CLs with Madrid.

Pogba is a great example because far bigger names failed to get the best out of him consistently at club level but for France he looked world class, particularly at WC2018.

Also tactically he is excellent at finding balance. The Giroud / Griezmann partnership has excelled for 8 years. Best international pairing in that time. There are a lot of goals in both of them, sure, but they offer balance to the whole team. Again, how many managers would have picked Benzema?

Probably.

Yeah that's fine but could all be said of Southgate. And for most of his tenure he's had a fraction of the talent base.

Meh, you say this but Pogba was immense at Juve. He had a couple of really top seasons at United too, the culture there was just shit. If he had stayed with Juventus or gone to a non dysfunctional club I think he'd have been great .. Pogba was mega talented.

Deschamps has done okay, but I don't think he's a natural born winner or a great tactician. He's better than Southgate for sure but I don't think he's that much of a difference-maker. He's managed to make the dressing room content and he's played a pretty basic setup and relied on your individuals. It's not bad but it isn't exceptional.

And I mean Deschamps was picking Benzema over Giroud when the last Euros came about, any coach would. And he'd DEFINITELY have picked Benzema for the last world cup if he was fit. The only reason he didn't previously was because of his behaviour.

 

[Deuterz]

International football is really down to the players you have at your disposal . You don’t have the players long enough to really coach a system . Argentina won the World Cup with a manager no one had heard of, and probably cannot remember who he was. In fact, he had never been a manager, he was a scout on opposition and got the job because he was all they could afford.
They had Messi plus the kpr, Romero, De Maria. Full backs were not top class. Montiel has ended up at Forest.Not the usual 4 or 5 world class players pundits say that you need to win a world cup or euros.
I would say there is not a team in the world with those 4 or 5 players.
We have Kane and Bellingham. Some of the others are very good but not world class .
There is not an outstanding team in Europe which is why we have a big chance to win it. Just need to turn up and perform and not make stupid mistakes like Tuesday.

Argentina were actually more coaching than players imo. The french squad they lost to was much more talented. It was Messi's last hurrah but there is no way Di Maria was world class by the time that tournament rolled around. Romero definitely wasn't and still isn't world class either. They had one genuine WC player if we're saying Walker, Stones, Saka etc aren't world class.

That tournament was all about the GOAT having a swan-song & a bunch of players sacrificing themselves for the team - really good overall spirit about the group.

 

[LeParisien]

Probably.

Yeah that's fine but could all be said of Southgate. And for most of his tenure he's had a fraction of the talent base.

Meh, you say this but Pogba was immense at Juve. He had a couple of really top seasons at United too, the culture there was just shit. If he had stayed with Juventus or gone to a non dysfunctional club I think he'd have been great .. Pogba was mega talented.

Deschamps has done okay, but I don't think he's a natural born winner or a great tactician. He's better than Southgate for sure but I don't think he's that much of a difference-maker. He's managed to make the dressing room content and he's played a pretty basic setup and relied on your individuals. It's not bad but it isn't exceptional.

And I mean Deschamps was picking Benzema over Giroud when the last Euros came about, any coach would. And he'd DEFINITELY have picked Benzema for the last world cup if he was fit. The only reason he didn't previously was because of his behaviour.

Thé behaviour is exactly the point. Choosing your culture carefully is a key leadership trait. We won a World Cup without our best #9 so it’s hard to say he was wrong.

If Deschamps isn’t a natural born winner then literally no one is - he’s won everything worth winning. The guy has captained and managed his team to 3 World Cup finals (winning two of them, losing the last on penalties), 2 European championship finals (winning one of them), played in 5 champions league finals (winning two of them), coached another CL final with rank outsiders, and won 5 league titles.

That’s 11 major finals as a player and coach. Hes not some Roy Keane big mouth.

Is there some other criteria for being a natural born winner than winning everything as a player, captain and coach?

 

[Frankfurter]

I don't get people put Colwill over Guehi who in terms of international football is certain to go by dint of his personality. Colwil as we saw against us is raw and far from finished product. Below is my list. I've ranked each department of the squad and will get an overall score( maybe with LeParisien help we can do france. Possibly get my man Frankfurter and our Italian poster to do Italy.

GK
Pickford
Ramsey
Henderson
(Fingers crossed nothing happens to Pickford)
5/10

DEF
6/10
(Screwed without Walker or Stones)

Walker
Tripper
Stones
Maguire
Branthwaite
Guehi
Shaw
Chilwell

MID
7/10

(Rice irreplaceable)
Rice
Mainoo
Trent Alexander
 Henderson
Bellingham
Maddison

FOR
(As ever its on Kane)
9/10
Kane
Toney
Saka
Foden
Gordon

Squad score 27/ 40

Great job, boss!


Have good news:


1. I can't write so much, because I feel not so well


2. Germany is in love with Nagelsmann (the Klopp student) and the wonderful football players!

(Wait untill they lose her first game...)


3. I prepard myself for the coming European Mastership and buyed a hoodie with the three lions..!


Have a nice easter


Frankfurter

 

[Spaniel]

Great job, boss!


Have good news:


1. I can't write so much, because I feel not so well


2. Germany is in love with Nagelsmann (the Klopp student) and the wonderful football players!

(Wait untill they lose her first game...)


3. I prepard myself for the coming European Mastership and buyed a hoodie with the three lions..!


Have a nice easter


Frankfurter

Hope you feel better soon

 

[mummy]

Thank God this latest load of international nonsense is behind us now.

 

[N5 Spur]

Great job, boss!


Have good news:


1. I can't write so much, because I feel not so well


2. Germany is in love with Nagelsmann (the Klopp student) and the wonderful football players!

(Wait untill they lose her first game...)


3. I prepard myself for the coming European Mastership and buyed a hoodie with the three lions..!


Have a nice easter


Frankfurter

Get well soon.

 

[Distaste for scouse]

Takeaways, start Mainoo next to Rice

Based on two half decent games in an England shirt?
Surely it takes more than that to play your way into this team?

 

[Deuterz]

Based on two half decent games in an England shirt?
Surely it takes more than that to play your way into this team?

He’s got a skill-set we otherwise don’t have and he has been extremely good for United this season.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Based on two half decent games in an England shirt?
Surely it takes more than that to play your way into this team?

23 games in total for United. There's a lack of realisim here that's astonishing.

 

[Deuterz]

23 games in total for United. There's a lack of realisim here that's astonishing.

Talent is talent. And my god is that player talented.

 

[Tomo]

Talent is talent. And my god is that player talented.

He also has limited competition as a 6/8 player so we don’t have much choice. Aside from Rice most of our other top midfielders like Bellingham, Maddison are 8/10’s.

 

[Emala]

Mainoo is clearly a talent but people act like he is generational.

 

[Deuterz]

Mainoo is clearly a talent but people act like he is generational.

Yep, because there's every sign that he is generational.

 

[Emala]

Yep, because there's every sign that he is generational.

The sample size isn't big enough to draw that conclusion.

 

[Ionman34]

Clearly if you put one of the top two or three managers in the world in charge then you’ll get better results - that is beyond doubt. But I think you are still underestimating the difficulty of setting patterns of play in the time international managers have. The intricacies come from playing together regularly and that can’t happen for most international teams. The best counter evidence I can think of is the tikitaka style of Spain but even then then nearly every last player came from Barcelona or Real Madrid with the entire midfield from one very successful club side. The patterns weren’t set at international training camps.

I don't underestimate them at all, that's why I think Klopp would have us excelling. He'd set us up to play the Football that would suit virtually all of our players down to the ground. He'd have more than sufficient time to work on the intricacies in the patterns of play, it's not like he'd be asking them to do anything they don't already do for their clubs.

The playing career is not a strawman. I didn’t make the claim that having a successful playing career was a necessary condition for being a successful manager. I brought Deschamps’ playing career as an example of his experience fighting (and leading) big teams to the biggest trophies. To pretend that this experience has no value for a coach is surely wrong. And no, a successful playing career is not a sufficient condition either.

That's fair enough.

 

[Deuterz]

The sample size isn't big enough to draw that conclusion.

He's 18, already starting for United and has been their shining light. He comes in to an England side and is immediately the brightest player on the pitch.

The talent is as obvious as anything, the way he glides with the ball, the clever intricate passes. That doesn't mean he's even close to a guarantee but I absolutely see him as potentially generational.

 

[Emala]

He's 18, already starting for United and has been their shining light. He comes in to an England side and is immediately the brightest player on the pitch.

The talent is as obvious as anything, the way he glides with the ball, the clever intricate passes. That doesn't mean he's even close to a guarantee but I absolutely see him as potentially generational.

Can you stop? That United team is horribIe. And he has only played in meaningless friendlies for England.