Dortmund v Spurs- Ropey League Last 16.

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SchmoodSpur said:
-------------------------Lloris-------------------------
Trippier----Alderweireld----Wimmer----Rose
-----------------Mason----Bentaleb---------------
Lamela-------------Carroll-----------------Chadli
-------------------------Son---------------------------

This isn't a sacrifice, I think this team could bring a draw back to the Lane.

But, Dier looks fucked currently, Kane not far off. Alli is playing injured and Chris deserves a rest.

Something has to give, and this game is the best game to do it.
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Mason, Bentaleb and Carroll in the middle is suicide. There's no way we'd be able to contain their attacking threat, particularly with Bentaleb still so rusty.

Alli is suspended so no decision to be made there, but I bet you he's gutted he can't play. As will Eriksen and Kane be if they're dropped.

Anyone that thinks Poch is going to significantly weaken out XI for this game is deluded. Forgetting the fact it's a huge tie we should be taking seriously, the last thing we need after a mini-slump in form is a battering by Dortmund.
 
Millbanks said:
Mason, Bentaleb and Carroll in the middle is suicide. There's no way we'd be able to contain their attacking threat, particularly with Bentaleb still so rusty.

Alli is suspended so no decision to be made there, but I bet you he's gutted he can't play. As will Eriksen and Kane be if they're dropped.

Anyone that thinks Poch is going to significantly weaken out XI for this game is deluded. Forgetting the fact it's a huge tie we should be taking seriously, the last thing we need after a mini-slump in form is a battering by Dortmund.
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It's not what I think, it's what I want.

I'm sure they will be gutted they can't play but sometimes it's for their own good. Ferguson used to disappoint people all the time when using Park or Giggs exclusively in big games. I'm not comparing them directly, but you don't make decisions based on how a player feels about it.

I think it's obvious to most that Eric needs a rest. Dude is running on fumes. Admirable but dangerous.

I don't think that team gets battered by Dortmund. A similar side beat Fiorentina 3-0 so Poch has got previous. Hardly delusional.

IMO the upcoming games v. Villa and Bournemouth are far more important.
 
If Liverpool or Man U win the Europa league but fail to make top 4 in the league, will that eliminate the #4 team from CL play? Similar to the ass fucking Spurs got a couple of years ago.
 
Hairy Cane said:
If Liverpool or Man U win the Europa league but fail to make top 4 in the league, will that eliminate the #4 team from CL play? Similar to the ass fucking Spurs got a couple of years ago.
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No. Hence why Spain had 5 teams in CL this season (Sevilla won Europa but finished outside of top 4).

Spursily enough, the rule was abolished shortly after we got stitched up!
 
SchmoodSpur said:
It's not what I think, it's what I want.

I'm sure they will be gutted they can't play but sometimes it's for their own good. Ferguson used to disappoint people all the time when using Park or Giggs exclusively in big games. I'm not comparing them directly, but you don't make decisions based on how a player feels about it.

I think it's obvious to most that Eric needs a rest. Dude is running on fumes. Admirable but dangerous.

I don't think that team gets battered by Dortmund. A similar side beat Fiorentina 3-0 so Poch has got previous. Hardly delusional.

IMO the upcoming games v. Villa and Bournemouth are far more important.
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I think all this constant chat gets in people's heads.

Dier running on fumes? I simply don't buy it. Call me naive, but we didn't have all this talk of fatigue 10/15 years ago. You went out with your strongest team pretty much every week. Terms like 'burnout' didn't even exist.

If he cannot play once/twice a week, they need to reduce his training, not his game time. But then the training regime is as such that he can deal with the amount of game time.

I'll leave it to Poch. If he starts Dier, I fully support the decision and believe he is fit enough to play.
 
Millbanks said:
I think all this constant chat gets in people's heads.

Dier running on fumes? I simply don't buy it. Call me naive, but we didn't have all this talk of fatigue 10/15 years ago. You went out with your strongest team pretty much every week. Terms like 'burnout' didn't even exist.

If he cannot play once/twice a week, they need to reduce his training, not his game time. But then the training regime is as such that he can deal with the amount of game time.

I'll leave it to Poch. If he starts Dier, I fully support the decision and believe he is fit enough to play.
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That's because it was the UEFA Cup then, not the Europa League.
 
SchmoodSpur said:
It's not what I think, it's what I want.

I'm sure they will be gutted they can't play but sometimes it's for their own good. Ferguson used to disappoint people all the time when using Park or Giggs exclusively in big games. I'm not comparing them directly, but you don't make decisions based on how a player feels about it.

I think it's obvious to most that Eric needs a rest. Dude is running on fumes. Admirable but dangerous.

I don't think that team gets battered by Dortmund. A similar side beat Fiorentina 3-0 so Poch has got previous. Hardly delusional.

IMO the upcoming games v. Villa and Bournemouth are far more important.
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We are STILL out running teams. In fact we are increasing our efforts and running more NOW than at the beginning of the season. You simply can't do this if you are "running on fumes". Provide the stat that backs up your claim and I will hold up my hands and be happy to back track.

Tireless Tottenham running further in 2016 than any other Premier League team

Here are some stats that back back up we are NOT running on fumes:
Tireless Tottenham running further in 2016 than any other Premier League team
Tottenham's young team aren't tiring - in fact, they've actually increasedthe amount of ground they're covering in Premier League games since the turn of the year.
Mauricio Pochettino's tireless side have been described as "animals" by Watford boss Quique Sanchez Flores, while Swansea assistant Alan Curtis praised their relentless attacking in the comeback win over his club last month.
And any concerns that Spurs would be unable to sustain their high-pressing, high-energy game through the second half of the season appear unfounded.
In fact, Spurs - whose starting line-up is the youngest in the Premier League on average - have increased their work-rate in 2016.

Tottenham's 2016 increase
Team Matches played Distance covered (km) Distance covered per 90mins (km)
Tottenham in 2016 10 1176.5 117.65
Tottenham in 2015 19 2184.0 114.94

In Tottenham's 10 Premier League games since the start of January, the players are covering an extra 2.71km per game, on average.
That was highlighted in the north London derby on Saturday, when Spurs covered 115.1km to Woolwich's 105.4km.
Out-running rivals
On Saturday Spurs players covered 115.1km compared to Woolwich's 105.4km.

As a result, Spurs are closing in on hard-working Bournemouth, who have currently covered the most ground this season.
 
Guido said:
We are STILL out running teams. In fact we are increasing our efforts and running more NOW than at the beginning of the season. You simply can't do this if you are "running on fumes". Provide the stat that backs up your claim and I will hold up my hands and be happy to back track.

Tireless Tottenham running further in 2016 than any other Premier League team

Here are some stats that back back up we are NOT running on fumes:
Tireless Tottenham running further in 2016 than any other Premier League team
Tottenham's young team aren't tiring - in fact, they've actually increasedthe amount of ground they're covering in Premier League games since the turn of the year.
Mauricio Pochettino's tireless side have been described as "animals" by Watford boss Quique Sanchez Flores, while Swansea assistant Alan Curtis praised their relentless attacking in the comeback win over his club last month.
And any concerns that Spurs would be unable to sustain their high-pressing, high-energy game through the second half of the season appear unfounded.
In fact, Spurs - whose starting line-up is the youngest in the Premier League on average - have increased their work-rate in 2016.

Tottenham's 2016 increase
Team Matches played Distance covered (km) Distance covered per 90mins (km)
Tottenham in 2016 10 1176.5 117.65
Tottenham in 2015 19 2184.0 114.94

In Tottenham's 10 Premier League games since the start of January, the players are covering an extra 2.71km per game, on average.
That was highlighted in the north London derby on Saturday, when Spurs covered 115.1km to Woolwich's 105.4km.
Out-running rivals
On Saturday Spurs players covered 115.1km compared to Woolwich's 105.4km.

As a result, Spurs are closing in on hard-working Bournemouth, who have currently covered the most ground this season.
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I didn't say WE, I said Eric.

I don't need stats to back up what I see with my eyes. Dier looked as tired as I've seen him this season against the scum.

You don't need stats to tell you some players will struggle with fatigue in March after already playing 41 games, already 5 more than the previous season.

Stats may say we're still running a lot, of course we are, that's our game, but the intensity of some of it isn't quite the same. Noticeable against West Ham, noticeable against Scum.

Eric will benefit from a little rest. I don't see what's so controversial in saying that. The dude has been monstrous in his efforts thus far.

The game is played on grass, not paper.
 
SchmoodSpur said:
I don't need stats to back up what I see with my eyes. Dier looked as tired as I've seen him this season against the scum.

You don't need stats to tell you some players will struggle with fatigue in March after already playing 41 games, already 5 more than the previous season.

Stats may say we're still running a lot, of course we are, that's our game, but the intensity of some of it isn't quite the same. Noticeable against West Ham, noticeable against Scum.

Eric will benefit from a little rest. I don't see what's so controversial in saying that. The dude has been monstrous in his efforts thus far.

The game is played on grass, not paper.
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So despite being knackered he is running 3km more per game now than when he was fresh? OK...
 
Guido said:
So despite being knackered he is running 3km more per game now than when he was fresh? OK...
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And that's where statwhoring falls down. Maybe that's why he doesn't look quite as dynamic as earlier in the season, because he's working more.

Just because he's doing more work doesn't mean he's not tired.

Little comparison, Mo Farah wins the 10k in a PB in a final despite saying he was knackered and felt fresher earlier. Sometimes pure stats don't tell the story of what the athlete is enduring.

Do you get it now? Just because his output is still there doesn't mean he's not fatigued.

Again, he looked tired on Saturday towards the end of the game. If you let stats overrule what you see then fair enough. I know what I saw. Same against Spam too.

I also don't think you understand what running on fumes means. It means you're right on the edge of losing performance, redlining per say. Not that you've already reached that point.

I wouldn't be so worried if Poch sides didn't have a history of it.
 
SchmoodSpur said:
And that's where statwhoring falls down. Maybe that's why he doesn't look quite as dynamic as earlier in the season, because he's working more.

Just because he's doing more work doesn't mean he's not tired.

Little comparison, Mo Farah wins the 10k in a PB in a final despite saying he was knackered and felt fresher earlier. Sometimes pure stats don't tell the story of what the athlete is enduring.

Do you get it now? Just because his output is still there doesn't mean he's not fatigued.

Again, he looked tired on Saturday towards the end of the game. If you let stats overrule what you see then fair enough. I know what I saw. Same against Spam too.

I also don't think you understand what running on fumes means. It means you're right on the edge of losing performance, redlining per say. Not that you've already reached that point.

I wouldn't be so worried if Poch sides didn't have a history of it.
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I would never describe Dier as a dynamic player. All our players look tired, that is because they are the hardest working teams in the League, it's great to see, it's what I expect to see.

Poch and all the medical staff at our mega training centre must all be wrong then, playing him every game, making him so knackered that his performances are a detriment to the team. If that is the case that is very poor management, no?
 
Guido said:
I would never describe Dier as a dynamic player. All our players look tired, that is because they are the hardest working teams in the League, it's great to see, it's what I expect to see.

Poch and all the medical staff at our mega training centre must all be wrong then, playing him every game, making him so knackered that his performances are a detriment to the team. If that is the case that is very poor management, no?
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Dier was definitely dynamic earlier in the season with his tackling and interceptions. Literally the definition of dynamic.

dynamic - definition of dynamic in English from the Oxford dictionary

I'm going to ignore that last paragraph as it's the height of strawman. I've literally not suggested anything about Poch being wrong or Dier being a detriment to the team. I've just said I'd like to see Dier rested against Dortmund as he's looked tired in the last 2 games and you've reacted as if I've sullied your family's name.

Don't pull a Gibbs.
 
Hairy Cane said:
If Liverpool or Man U win the Europa league but fail to make top 4 in the league, will that eliminate the #4 team from CL play? Similar to the ass fucking Spurs got a couple of years ago.
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Can one of the mods post the answer to this question on the front page I feel like between the two forums I follow it has been asked and answered twenty times since we drew Dortmund. I can't blame people for asking but it is getting ridiculous
 
SchmoodSpur said:
Dier was definitely dynamic earlier in the season with his tackling and interceptions. Literally the definition of dynamic.

dynamic - definition of dynamic in English from the Oxford dictionary

I'm going to ignore that last paragraph as it's the height of strawman. I've literally not suggested anything about Poch being wrong or Dier being a detriment to the team. I've just said I'd like to see Dier rested against Dortmund as he's looked tired in the last 2 games and you've reacted as if I've sullied your family's name.

Don't pull a Gibbs.
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I am very sensitive to the strawman which is put out that "Poch's teams get tiered" and "can't last a season" etc. etc... So, apologies my comments are by and large fighting this, which is coming up time after time without any foundation (this season) or with context (previous seasons).
I jumped on your comments about Dier's "running on fumes" sensing the above strawman. But having said that I am not seeing it. I didn't see any evidence of him being off his game or any effects of tiredness on Sat, certainly wouldn't describe his performance as someone who is running on fumes. If this were the case Poch does have at least 3 other options to bring in, all be it none at the level of Dier's defensive qualities but if he is a tiered as you suggest why is he being picked?
Only one player looks "off" to me and that is Ali, who has lost his languid look and looks a bit wooden/static, and we have learnt that his is carrying a couple of injuries which might be the reason for this. Kane is another that might fall into this category of looking tiered but having seen him play these past couple of seasons he has such a unique style and has always looked "odd" in his running it is hard to tell.

So, hope you get where I was coming from now, everyone it appears is buying into the knackered narrative, when as a collective the opposite is actually the case, hence the running stats. For the record I have no issues if he is rested for Dortmund, I'm just fighting this knackered narrative.
 
Guido said:
Like this Spurs short vid with Flav Flav & his old man on UEFA site no less.
UEFA Europa League 2016 - Dortmund-Tottenham – UEFA.com
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