Could the high line actually be our biggest tactical problem?

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Agree with this entirely... And following on from @ Cripps14 Cripps14 's comment its all about keeping it fresh. Against the better sides (or even sides playing an odd formation... Like, um, 4-6-0 :vdvcry: ) we cant be too predictable. We have some of the best wingers in Europe (certainly at least some of the fastest) and their game would benefit a bit more from having space.
 
Did you see the article I wrote the other day? Inspired by our conversation: http://windycoys.com/2013/10/villas-boas-needs-to-find-a-plan-b/

I think that's a reasonable shout at a plan B - although I think it can be more simple. I.e. when you're struggling to break teams down, take off a holder, drop Eriksen or Holtby a little deeper, and bring on another creative force. Or at times take off a full back and put on a slightly more attacking player - I think Lennon for Walker could become a really useful sub when we're looking for a goal, for example. Not sure it's a good idea to change your entire defensive philosophy necessarily - it might lead to more confusion than anything else.

I didn't know that I'd helped to inspire that, glad to have been of assistance!

Put in a word for me on the podcast neh? :bae:
 
I've breezed past this thread, so maybe I'm missing something that's been addressed already, but I really don't understand how so many people continually think that the high-line was something new that AVB brought to Spurs...

Perhaps someone could enlighten me.


We played with a high line under Harry. That's a fact. We didn't quite have the quality of squad depth to really pile on the pressure continuously, and were therefore more reliant on counter-attacking, but in possession we played with a high line.
 
d with a high line under Harry. That's a fact. We didn't quite have the quality of squad depth to really pile on the pressure continuously, and were therefore more reliant on counter-attacking, but in possession we played with a high line.

I think the issue here is that the high line in our current system ends up very close to two defensively minded deep midfielders, whice wasnt the case under 'Arry.
 
I think the issue here is that the high line in our current system ends up very close to two defensively minded deep midfielders, which wasnt the case under 'Arry.
Very much was in our best run of form in Harry's last season, before King's form went downhill.

Kaboul was always bombing forward very deep; played strikingly similar to Vertonghen. And, there's been absolutely no change whatsoever in the playing roles of our fullbacks.

I think if the team wants to develop and mature then we need to treat the problem and work it out, rather than resorting to playing our defenders deeper to stretch the game. Our attackers need to learn how to more consistently break up the opposition, and that's what I expect them to do.
 
I don't think the high line is the issue, plenty of teams play possession football with a high line successfully. The issue is our passing not being good enough. We are far too slow to move the ball around and we don't exploit the wide spaces. Ideally we would move the ball around faster and use all the available space, which results in the opposition midfield/defence being dragged all over the place, and eventually exposing some weakness. But as of now, everything is happening very slowly, without much invention and mostly in front of the opposition; so they have all the time in the world to shuffle around and close down spaces as necessary.

And even on the counter we often don't get the ball forward to one of our runners quickly enough. As many people have said before, we don't have that ingenious passing (Modric-like) player in CM. Our current deep-lying central players, for all their qualities, are not particularly quick/creative passers of the ball. All of this means that we often don't trust ourselves to keep the ball in a congested area, so we either keep knocking it around in our own half or resort to kicking it long from the back.

The other, equally important, issue is the movement from the forwards, which again isn't good enough a lot of the time. I don't mean just the CF, but all of the attacking players. They need to be more imaginative with their runs, in order to drag defenders away and create space for each other as well as for themselves.

So in summary, we got to get gooder!
 
AVB needs to become more pragmatic and learn from his mistakes. In the NLD at WHL last season both teams played with a high line and we ended up defeating them because of the fact that our incisive passing in behind was better and because of the fact that we had the speed of Lennon and Bale. This season however Wenger seemed to learn and withdrew his team in the game knowing that AVB was insistent on utilizing a high line and exploited our high line with quick passing and with a player like Walcott with his speed. Another issue on that day was the bluntness or predictability of our attacking where we didn't even threaten them up until the last 10 or 20 minutes where they seemed to be tired and had withdrawn even deeper. AVB must adjust the line according to opponents and their strengths and also bring in a playmaking deep lying midfielder to instigate attacks as someone on hear mentioned earlier someone like Modric who can dictate play and move it forward as of now I can't see anybody being able to play that role as of now because guys like Paulinho who is a runner and Sandro who is a defensive midfielder don't fit the bill the only player I can see playing Iike that is Holtby who played a similar role at Schalke before coming over to us.
 
Let's say we pull all our players a bit deeper both in possession and out of it... I highly doubt we'd end up actually getting something out of it and here's why:
First off, teams are scared of us and set out to defend their box from the off, which means they arent inclined to push up or break their lines to try and win it back. In all likelyhood we'd end up less potent as our players are all 10-30yards further away from the goal.

In defense we'd give the opposition more space and time to actually set up a proper attack (at the moment they are getting close to no time on it when they win it back as there's always a player or two near em chomping at their heels.). Yes we could get a better counter-attack or two going, but do we really have that reliable long passer that can hit our counter threats like Scholes, Carrick, Modric and Hudd could and can do? In my view we do not, so the out ball to the counter threat is a high stake gamble going both ways, we could go and grab a goal, but we could just as easily lose it and be out of balance as we've "emptied our sack" with counter runs.
 
Yeah, I mentioned the high line / compressed thing in the Soldado thread a couple of times because he's pretty much the last player that you'd pick to fit into AVB's current system due to his reliance on space behind the defensive line.

What I'd note is that what we do isn't what AVB preached himself in the article cited often on this board from his early Chelsea days where he talks about possession 'inviting' the opposition to go in hunt of the ball and opening up chances (a la Barca). Our movement of the ball isn't fast enough at the moment - and because of that, the opposition defensive until has time to get back into place before we play the forwards in.

Lets not forget that we had similar issues under Redknapp when playing at home against lower quality opposition.
 
I've mentioned this elsewhere but I'll reiterate it here for further consideration, as this seems to be the de facto tactics thread.

I think the high line is a great tactic now that we've got it nailed - opposition attackers are continually trying to get beyond us and they're either caught offside or can't get past the defence. On the occasions they get past our defensive midfielders AND a centre back, they tend to be between a full back and the other centre back. So in terms of squeezing the attackers, we've succeeded well in that.

Our problems in penetration (lolz) actually start with the five man midfield in the 2-3 staggered formation we tend to run as part of a 4-2-3-1. The full backs bomb on to provide width and to double up with the inverted wingers to deliver crosses or cut in as appropriate. The central midfielders provide a screen for the centre backs while also trying to play the ball through the middle or out wide to our advanced creative players to create chances or score for themselves.

Except that none of that is happening. The reason is why is not entirely clear, but below are some factors:

- the vast majority of our players have their backs to the opposition goal. You expect the players who are meant to hold the ball up will have to do this (Soldado and Sandro). But there were numerous occasions yesterday when Holtby did the same, as did Townsend.
- the team is coming up against a block of at least five opposition players congesting the 18-yard-line when we attack. Not finding a way through that is acceptable, to me. That's their tactic. However, not switching it out wide or having players making runs through it makes absolutely no sense to me. If you can't do either of those things, then just take potshots at goal from 30 yards (which, to be fair, a few of our players are capable of). You see this tactic used in basketball - a team defends the area so well that the attackers just kick it out to the long-range shooter and attempt to collect possession should he miss.
- the width is being underutilised. As mentioned above - if we can't get through the centre then we have to go wide. But a big problem is that our wingers and full backs aren't making runs past their man to get a through ball. So many times yesterday, the left side was crying out for either Lennon or Townsend or Vertonghen (who all had opportunities when ideally placed) to run for it and a lofted through ball would see them into the corner where they could cross. No runs made, no chances created - and a limited amount of alarm for Hull.
- the midfield three isn't switching properly. We glimpsed what AVB wants for this area of the team earlier in the year, when Eriksen would pop up on the right and suddenly Townsend would burst through the middle: a fluid advanced midfield three that could seamlessly interchange. However, yesterday we saw what happens when it misfires. Neither Holtby nor Eriksen could get out of Townsend and Lennon's way on the flanks and when either winger drifted inwards, it seemed like there were a lot of crossed wires and nobody knew exactly what anyone else intended. Movement was limited and when it did happen, the players seemed to be getting in each others' way rather than providing a passing option. I suspect that this is a teething problem and will be sorted as the team gels and evolves together. With a surfeit of midfield options, many players who can play in multiple positions...numerous understandings need to develop. This will take time. I can live with that.
- players aren't attacking the space. This is something I can't live with. I don't know if it was the atmosphere but it seemed increasingly like, later in the game, there was space to be exploited (even if it meant that players would be put under pressure when in that space) but the players would pass sideways or backwards rather than either running into the space and receiving the ball or running there with the ball themselves. If this is nerves...it's understandable. If it's the crowd affecting the players, it's understandable. If AVB has instructed them not to go forwards because he feels like we might be too light at the back, it's not. IF that is the case, it meant AVB doesn't have faith in his defensive players and that we're actually playing the kind of defensive football we accuse Hull et al of playing - just higher up the pitch.



TL;DR - we need to use the space we've got and AVB needs to prove himself as a Spurs manager by accepting that we may concede a few by going forwards but with our attacking talent, it'd be a travesty not to attack with more guile and verve than we're showing at present.
 
I've noticed with our high line it gets exposed a lot more against the weaker teams then it does when we are playing someone with a better football education. If we can see it week in and out then I'm sure coaches must be looking at exploiting this, it's just hasn't had a high profile failure yet....YET! I don't think we are using it as an attacking platform effectively as we could be, it's been an excuse to play narrow and in front of the oppositions defence, rather than getting chalk on the wingers boots, spread the game and pepper crosses in (Not that any fucker bothers to get in the box for them). I wonder if this all hinders Saldado's talents and the service he needs to excel? He's constantly shit out of luck finding any space as it's so crowded for the above reasons he's not really getting round the back or running on to anything.
 
Andre Villas-Boas famously fell out with Chelsea’s players when he insisted John Terry and co played a high line, but the tactic is working for Spurs.

With nine games gone they have caught their opponents offside 34 times – which is seven more than the next on the list - Swansea.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...etting-better--Ralph-Ellis.html#ixzz2j1dGFFIT
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Whoot.. Will that be another record we will talk about next season?

Anyway.. what you doing reading that old shite
 
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