Come here to laugh at Nu-Castle

[Go on son]

No great shock that we finished bottom in a group death with Dortmund, Milan and PSG. No recent experience in the Champions League for most of the players or the manager. Bit naïve at times, at times a little overawed by the occasion, but I'm proud of the team on the whole. Could have taken 6pts off PSG were it not for a dodgy handball law, half time of the final game we were sitting 2nd in the group, but we were clearly not as good as Milan or Dortmund over 180 minutes.

As an aside, we've been really unlucky with our drawn opponents this season; Dortmund, Milan, PSG in the CL, Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea in the League Cup and now Sunderland in the FA Cup.

Everyone was predicting we'd be embarrassed in that competition, we'd get pumped by all of the teams etc. But I don't think we were the whipping boys that people expected. Much more embarrassing for Man Utd to finish bottom of their group with fewer points from Bayern, Copenhagen and Galatasaray than we managed against our lot.

Fatigue and lack of options definitely affected our chances (and anyone saying otherwise is just letting football tribalism cloud their objectivity), but we only won one game, and couldn't even manage a draw at home against Milan to get Europa League.

It's really unlikely we'll get into the 24/25 Champions League. Those spots will likely go to Man City, Woolwich, Liverpool, and either yourselves or Aston Villa. We've got to hope for some other route into Europe. Hopefully whenever we do get back, we'll have be more ready for it. Definitely came too soon for us. No depth, not enough quality, not enough experience.

Hoping that we can lift our league form now that we don't have the additional fixtures.

Not having that group of death. Psg hit and miss, dortmund 5th in bundesliga, milan 9 pts off top in serie A. All winnable home games. Professional athletes tired after 3 and half months of the season. Again not having it.
Thats an excuse in march,april if youve gone deep in europe and maybe cup competitions. Injuries yes, fatigue no

 

[This Fish]

Youre better than both Dortmund and Milan.

I think it's not only a failure that you didn't qualify but the fact you finished bottom is even worse.

Hideously unprepared for the biggest season in your club's history.

We're not like. As proven over 180 minutes and our respective league campaigns. We've no depth, no experience. What we are is wealthier.

We were unprepared, absolutely. But given the FFP restrictions we couldn't exactly flood our squad with CL quality players. Add an unprecedented injury list to that and it's patently obvious we're weren't ready for the CL yet. Hells teeth man, we were tipped for relegation in 21/22 and 2 seasons late we're having to compete against Europe's elite? Dortmund, PSG have been in the CL loads in the last decade, And you're saying it was a failure to finish bottom of that group?

Think you're being incredibly harsh. Just because we've got that oil/bloody money, doesn't mean we're suddenly flush with elite talent. We're not ready for the CL. Even if we had a full strength side I doubt we'd have progressed into the knock out stages.

 

[Starks]

We're not like. As proven over 180 minutes and our respective league campaigns. We've no depth, no experience. What we are is wealthier.

Of course you are.

Do you think either of those two teams would have finished top four in the Premier League last season? Would they fuck.

Not beating either of those teams at home is shambolic tbh. Especially Milan when leading at home and pretty much dominating for an hour.

We were unprepared, absolutely. But given the FFP restrictions we couldn't exactly flood our squad with CL quality players.

Milan and Dortmund aren't full of CL quality players.

Dortmund, PSG have been in the CL loads in the last decade, And you're saying it was a failure to finish bottom of that group?

Yes.

This isn't 2021 anymore. It's 2023 where Newcastle were the 3rd best team in the country last season. In arguably the best and most competitive league in European football.

Where's your ambition!?!

Think you're being incredibly harsh. Just because we've got that oil/bloody money, doesn't mean we're suddenly flush with elite talent. We're not ready for the CL. Even if we had a full strength side I doubt we'd have progressed into the knock out stages.

I think you're playing down your team and overrating the teams in your group. You smashed PSG at home.... And you think your team isn't capable of putting away Dortmund and Milan at home?

Leave it out.

 

[This Fish]

Not having that group of death. Psg hit and miss, dortmund 5th in bundesliga, milan 9 pts off top in serie A. All winnable home games. Professional athletes tired after 3 and half months of the season. Again not having it.
Thats an excuse in march,april if youve gone deep in europe and maybe cup competitions. Injuries yes, fatigue no

Everyone called it the group of death man. We weren't up against Copenhagen, or Belgrade or Antwerp. The reason our lads are tired is because of the injuries. Basically played the same XI for the last 5 games, without substitutions to give them a break.

We don't have a squad as deep as yours, we were having to name 2-3 'keepers on the bench alongside teenagers. Where you could bring players like Lo Celso in from the cold.

 

[Shadydan]

We don't have a squad as deep as yours

 

[Macch]

I feel bad. They were so so tired

 

[This Fish]

Of course you are.

Do you think either of those two teams would have finished top four in the Premier League last season? Would they fuck.

I don't think we would have finished 4th had other teams (including yours) not had absolute shitters. Look at this season, Liverpool and yourselves are way, way better than you were in 22/23. Could Dortmund have finished 4th, or Milan? Dunno. Maybe.. Maybe if they didn't have any European fixtures to contend with, if they had good fortune with injuries like we did?

Not beating either of those teams at home is shambolic tbh. Especially Milan when leading at home and pretty much dominating for an hour.



Milan and Dortmund aren't full of CL quality players.

Is it shite shambolic man, it's naivety and inexperience and tiredness. But that's to be expected from a team that's not been in the competition for 20+ yrs.

Yes.

This isn't 2021 anymore. It's 2023 where Newcastle were the 3rd best team in the country last season. In arguably the best and most competitive league in European football.

We were not the 3rd best team in the country, we were 4th. In that season. We didn't have the 4th best squad, or the 4th best manager. We had the 4th best results. We were brilliant last season, but this season we're fucked by injuries and trying to stretch a thin squad over 3 competitions. We don't have the depth.

Where's your ambition!?!

My ambition is to eventually compete with the elite clubs of European football. But we're not there yet. And that's ok.

I think you're playing down your team and overrating the teams in your group. You smashed PSG at home.... And you think your team isn't capable of putting away Dortmund and Milan at home?

Leave it out.

Yeah we smashed PSG because they underestimated us, we had a strong(er) squad at the time and their manager played fucking kamikaze tactics. No midfield and 4 up front. Meant we could strangle their backline with our press, bully their middle and double up on their dangerous attacking players. They couldn't handle our press at their place too, despite us running on fumes.

It was close against Dortmund, but for the woodwork and a great save we could have won it. Same is true against Milan, close game. In both fixtures the opponents experience and freshness won the day. Play the same game a hundred times and we'd win as many as we lost.

I think you're overrating Newcastle because of the wealth of the ownership. We still have to field players who were with us in the Championship, we have been missing loads of players which means our remaining players are gassed. I don't think there's any shame in how we performed in our first return to the Champions League in 20+ years.

 

[Ed Vanderlay]

Everyone called it the group of death man. We weren't up against Copenhagen, or Belgrade or Antwerp. The reason our lads are tired is because of the injuries. Basically played the same XI for the last 5 games, without substitutions to give them a break.

We don't have a squad as deep as yours, we were having to name 2-3 'keepers on the bench alongside teenagers. Where you could bring players like Lo Celso in from the cold.

Really, are you expecting to get sympathy when we have unequivocal evidence of what being owned by an oil state means for an equitable football league . I’m talking Man City , PSG and one could make a case for Chelsea as a Putin indirectly funded toy .
Boo hoo poor little super rich Newcastle

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

No great shock that we finished bottom in a group death with Dortmund, Milan and PSG. No recent experience in the Champions League for most of the players or the manager. Bit naïve at times, at times a little overawed by the occasion, but I'm proud of the team on the whole. Could have taken 6pts off PSG were it not for a dodgy handball law, half time of the final game we were sitting 2nd in the group, but we were clearly not as good as Milan or Dortmund over 180 minutes.

As an aside, we've been really unlucky with our drawn opponents this season; Dortmund, Milan, PSG in the CL, Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea in the League Cup and now Sunderland in the FA Cup.

Everyone was predicting we'd be embarrassed in that competition, we'd get pumped by all of the teams etc. But I don't think we were the whipping boys that people expected. Much more embarrassing for Man Utd to finish bottom of their group with fewer points from Bayern, Copenhagen and Galatasaray than we managed against our lot.

Fatigue and lack of options definitely affected our chances (and anyone saying otherwise is just letting football tribalism cloud their objectivity), but we only won one game, and couldn't even manage a draw at home against Milan to get Europa League.

It's really unlikely we'll get into the 24/25 Champions League. Those spots will likely go to Man City, Woolwich, Liverpool, and either yourselves or Aston Villa. We've got to hope for some other route into Europe. Hopefully whenever we do get back, we'll have be more ready for it. Definitely came too soon for us. No depth, not enough quality, not enough experience.

Hoping that we can lift our league form now that we don't have the additional fixtures.

I like you fishy, you know that but sorry old bean the teams you got in your group this season are miles off what they used to be. I'll cut you some slack regarding PSG as I don't think anyone knows what PSG are right now, certainly, they are a club on a course correct, I think it's fair to say they have changed direction from previous years regarding players they are targeting but they are still spending shed loads.

But aside from that, the other Clubs are pure reputational and are poor teams today a mile off where they used to be. Even us under Conte (so utterly shite) knew we had a team to beat Milan last year, it was his nail in the coffin that shifted the entire fanbase to want him out the door the way he approached both games against them and I'd argue they are worse this year!

You finished BOTTOM of the group and won ONE game, in no other measure this is really bad!!

Of course, getting injuries etc affects the team and like us you've had loads to deal with and to important players. You also have brought some of it on yourselves too, as you failed to do your homework on Tonali. But injuries are part of the game and lady luck always plays a part (when Poch was with us he only got to play his "best team" ONCE!).

For me I think Howe is a very good manager, however, I think, like Woolwich last year, you got lucky in that Spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool (2nd, 3rd and 4th in number of players mins played at a World Cup scheduled bang slap in the middle of an active season) had their worst season in over a decade simultaneously. I maintain that this season is the time to measure just how good Howe is. And to be honest, I struggling, I'm in two camps 1) I really like how he's got your philosophy across and that despite the injuries the team put out plays the same way is also quite good 2) but then I do have to question why he hasn't changed/rotated even just a couple of positions rather than play the same team twice a week. Safe to say that I don't think I can answer this until the end of the season.

For you lot not being in Europe is fantastic because it was your golden ticket to get your revenues up and thus make you FFP compliant, so anything that limits your ability to bring in revenues is fantastic for the game. Remember our chat on how dodgy your sponsorship valuations were, Let's see this play out to full effect, most normal deals will see the sponsor pay less if their club fails to qualify for the group stages or fail to qualify for Europe altogether, do you honestly see your PIF Shirt sponsors pay 50% of the £25m pa for crashing out of Europe (or not qualifying at all)??? You and I both know this will not happen!

 

[Starks]

I don't think we would have finished 4th had other teams (including yours) not had absolute shitters. Look at this season, Liverpool and yourselves are way, way better than you were in 22/23. Could Dortmund have finished 4th, or Milan? Dunno. Maybe.. Maybe if they didn't have any European fixtures to contend with, if they had good fortune with injuries like we did?

But you did. Regardless. You took advantage and didn't finish their by chance. You were hard to beat, you took it to other teams, you only lost to teams that finished above you (and Villa).

Milan and Dortmund are nothing special. Stop pretending like they are. Both of them will be out in the next round.

Is it shite shambolic man, it's naivety and inexperience and tiredness. But that's to be expected from a team that's not been in the competition for 20+ yrs.

Being naive in the situation is shambolic though. You KNOW you're better than 1 win 6 games. Not sure why you're finding it hard to admit it.

Just another win would have seen you remain in Europe and you couldn't even manage it. That's a shambles.

We were not the 3rd best team in the country, we were 4th. In that season. We didn't have the 4th best squad, or the 4th best manager. We had the 4th best results. We were brilliant last season, but this season we're fucked by injuries and trying to stretch a thin squad over 3 competitions. We don't have the depth.

Only two players from the starting 11 that smashed PSG a few months ago were missing from your squad last night....

And your starting eleven was more than good enough to not only beat that Milan team, but to get at least the point needed.

I think you're overrating Newcastle because of the wealth of the ownership. We still have to field players who were with us in the Championship, we have been missing loads of players which means our remaining players are gassed. I don't think there's any shame in how we performed in our first return to the Champions League in 20+ years.

Not at all. Overrating Newcastle is the last thing I'll ever do, I think your fanbase does a good enough job of that without me needing to add to it.

But I do feel you're massively overrating Milan and Dortmund. And I will stand by the fact that I think finishing bottom of that group was a massive failure of Howe and the players.

You had 4 points from your opening 2 games. Getting a good draw away at Milan and beating PSG at home... Before completely shitting the bed and failing to get a single win in the remaining 4 games.

You can use all the excuses you like.

 

[This Fish]

Really, are you expecting to get sympathy when we have unequivocal evidence of what being owned by an oil state means for an equitable football league . I’m talking Man City , PSG and one could make a case for Chelsea as a Putin indirectly funded toy .
Boo hoo poor little super rich Newcastle

Who's asking for sympathy? Let me at 'em.

All that wealth is great for the club as a whole, but unlike the teams you've mentioned we've (rightly) not been allowed to throw unlimited funds at the squad. We've (thus far) abided by FFP and stretched that to it's limit as well. So even though we are owned by grossly wealthy tyrants, we have to do things in a more (not entirely, but more) equitable fashion. We can't drop £450m in one summer window, then back that up with another big wedge in January. It's only £150m in the summer + whatever we are allowed to spend in January.

Despite our wealth we've spent less than 5 of the traditional big six since the takeover.

Is it fair that clubs like mine, Man City or Chelsea can suddenly have the money to match the outlay from established teams like Man Utd or Liverpool? No, not really, but it's been that way since the football league became professional, so whaddya gonna do? Liverpool were outspending top division clubs on players back in the 1960s, not a lot of organic growth then. Woolwich were doing it in the 20s and 30s, Sunderland did it in the 40s and Everton in the 70s.

And until there's some kind of wage cap, or debt-linked transfer policy, the cycle will continue.

 

[Deuterz]

Lol people are being ridiculous. They only got good last season, before that they were mid-table or relegation threatened. A lot of those same players are still there in the team.

They’ve got money but their spending isn’t higher than an Woolwich or a Spurs & the level they had to come from was MUCH lower. They’re well, well ahead of where most expected them to be.

When they got taken over people were adamant they’d be nowhere near the top 4 for years, now it’s a disaster 2 years in to not be better than PSG, Milan or Dortmund .. come on. Disgrace is what happened to United in the CL.

They were in the fight to finish 2nd till the last day. Any attempt to blame Howe for struggling at the top European level with Miley, Almiron, Lascelles, Schar, Dubravka, Wilson in the lineup is insane. These are not CL level players.

 

[mummy]

I hate the fact that Newcastle and Utd have gone out of Europe. They can focus their energies on the prizes that are important to us now - bummer.

I'd have much preferred them to drop down to some lower European competition and get to the semi finals of it.

 

[Go on son]

Everyone called it the group of death man. We weren't up against Copenhagen, or Belgrade or Antwerp. The reason our lads are tired is because of the injuries. Basically played the same XI for the last 5 games, without substitutions to give them a break.

We don't have a squad as deep as yours, we were having to name 2-3 'keepers on the bench alongside teenagers. Where you could bring players like Lo Celso in from the cold.

At the start people would say that. But the way the season is them teams are way below par.
Thats on your manager not to make a change. Can still take a player off even if replacement isnt as good. 3 nil down to everton, 4 nil down to us ye are not winning them games so take off 'tired players' players for rest and bring on legs to finish off games like that.
Its 2 games a week. Still cant understand tired players at this stage of season. The players will start believing the excuses which isnt good

 

[This Fish]

I like you fishy, you know that but sorry old bean the teams you got in your group this season are miles off what they used to be. I'll cut you some slack regarding PSG as I don't think anyone knows what PSG are right now, certainly, they are a club on a course correct, I think it's fair to say they have changed direction from previous years regarding players they are targeting but they are still spending shed loads.

But aside from that, the other Clubs are pure reputational and are poor teams today a mile off where they used to be. Even us under Conte (so utterly shite) knew we had a team to beat Milan last year, it was his nail in the coffin that shifted the entire fanbase to want him out the door the way he approached both games against them and I'd argue they are worse this year!

You finished BOTTOM of the group and won ONE game, in no other measure this is really bad!!

We did but, and I know you move onto to it below, injuries absolutely knackered us. Your own team has had it's struggles because of the unprecedented injury list and you've not had as many fixtures to play (not a dig at all, just the way it is). So, would I be as sanguine had we finished bottom without this injury list? No, I'd be pretty pissed off. Dismissing Milan and Dortmund is pretty harsh if you ask me. They showed to me that they're at least as good as a Brighton or maybe a Man Utd of this season. We did finish bottom, but we had 4 close games where luck didn't go our way. Couple off the woodwork go in, or the handball law being the same as it is in the PL and we're on 8-9pts and going through to the next stage. We didn't get humiliated in any game and managed a humiliation of PSG. Had Woolwich had our group and our injuries they would have struggled too.

Of course, getting injuries etc affects the team and like us you've had loads to deal with and to important players. You also have brought some of it on yourselves too, as you failed to do your homework on Tonali. But injuries are part of the game and lady luck always plays a part (when Poch was with us he only got to play his "best team" ONCE!).

Thing with Tonali is that neither Milan, nor our scouts had any idea about his illness. Understandably so. For what it's worth I'm not sure we've missed Tonali as much as we have Botman, or Wilson, or Barnes, or Pope or...

We've had loads of injuries to key players and loads of games, and no gimmes in the cup competitions either. We've been without squad players who could bear some of the load for the key players that remained. But it is what it is, bad luck and you can't blame anyone for that. If they were all soft tissue injuries you could criticise the way we play, or train. But it's things like spinal fractures, or dislocated shoulders, or whatever. You can't account for that beyond having depth, and we don't have depth.

For me I think Howe is a very good manager, however, I think, like Woolwich last year, you got lucky in that Spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool (2nd, 3rd and 4th in number of players mins played at a World Cup scheduled bang slap in the middle of an active season) had their worst season in over a decade simultaneously. I maintain that this season is the time to measure just how good Howe is. And to be honest, I struggling, I'm in two camps 1) I really like how he's got your philosophy across and that despite the injuries the team put out plays the same way is also quite good 2) but then I do have to question why he hasn't changed/rotated even just a couple of positions rather than play the same team twice a week. Safe to say that I don't think I can answer this until the end of the season.

I too have to question why, when we're so stretched we've kept playing that high intensity, or when the players are clearly blowing out their arse we haven't brought on a kid. If nothing else he'd have fresh legs. I don't think you can judge Howe solely on this season because he's not had the opportunity to play his best squad and we've been unlucky with who've we've been drawn against. Look, we're still seeing players improve under Howe and we're still 7th in the League, in the 1/4 final of the League Cup, still in the FA Cup. He might not be the manager to consistently deliver Champions League, or whatever, but he's got way too much cache for me to lose faith in him because we failed to progress from the Group of Death in our first campaign in the CL for 20yrs.

For you lot not being in Europe is fantastic because it was your golden ticket to get your revenues up and thus make you FFP compliant, so anything that limits your ability to bring in revenues is fantastic for the game. Remember our chat on how dodgy your sponsorship valuations were, Let's see this play out to full effect, most normal deals will see the sponsor pay less if their club fails to qualify for the group stages or fail to qualify for Europe altogether, do you honestly see your PIF Shirt sponsors pay 50% of the £25m pa for crashing out of Europe (or not qualifying at all)??? You and I both know this will not happen!

Do I think Sela will change the terms of the existing contract because we dropped out of the Champions League? No... no I don't I don't think TeamViewer will do that with Man Utd either. Could there be a stipulation that should we fail to qualify for 24/25 we'll get less? maybe, dunno. I'd be surprised if there was because it isn't a contract with a club who regularly qualify for the competition.

Would West Ham's shirt sponsor reduce their deal if they fail to make Europe? Would Brighton?

 

[This Fish]

At the start people would say that. But the way the season is them teams are way below par.
Thats on your manager not to make a change. Can still take a player off even if replacement isnt as good. 3 nil down to everton, 4 nil down to us ye are not winning them games so take off 'tired players' players for rest and bring on legs to finish off games like that.
Its 2 games a week. Still cant understand tired players at this stage of season. The players will start believing the excuses which isnt good

It is on Howe, but who would you say we brought on? Karius up front? Ndiweni for Alexander Isak? Alex Murphy? We've already got one teenager starting, and he's way way better than the other kids.

Lewis Hall is the only one that's not been featuring that I don't understand?

Most seasons I'd agree with you, players shouldn't be tired already. But I guess I'm basing that on players featuring for 60-70 minutes once a week. Not 90+ minutes 2 times a week for months in a high intensity style.

 

[Airfixx]

Fuck Newcastle.




.....Nuffield said.

 

[CollyQC]

We finished top of a hard group in our first ever champions league excursion, being managed by 'Arry and with Yuseless Kaboul in defence.

 

[Steed_Train]

I don't think we would have finished 4th had other teams (including yours) not had absolute shitters. Look at this season, Liverpool and yourselves are way, way better than you were in 22/23. Could Dortmund have finished 4th, or Milan? Dunno. Maybe.. Maybe if they didn't have any European fixtures to contend with, if they had good fortune with injuries like we did?

Is it shite shambolic man, it's naivety and inexperience and tiredness. But that's to be expected from a team that's not been in the competition for 20+ yrs.

We were not the 3rd best team in the country, we were 4th. In that season. We didn't have the 4th best squad, or the 4th best manager. We had the 4th best results. We were brilliant last season, but this season we're fucked by injuries and trying to stretch a thin squad over 3 competitions. We don't have the depth.

My ambition is to eventually compete with the elite clubs of European football. But we're not there yet. And that's ok.


Yeah we smashed PSG because they underestimated us, we had a strong(er) squad at the time and their manager played fucking kamikaze tactics. No midfield and 4 up front. Meant we could strangle their backline with our press, bully their middle and double up on their dangerous attacking players. They couldn't handle our press at their place too, despite us running on fumes.

It was close against Dortmund, but for the woodwork and a great save we could have won it. Same is true against Milan, close game. In both fixtures the opponents experience and freshness won the day. Play the same game a hundred times and we'd win as many as we lost.

I think you're overrating Newcastle because of the wealth of the ownership. We still have to field players who were with us in the Championship, we have been missing loads of players which means our remaining players are gassed. I don't think there's any shame in how we performed in our first return to the Champions League in 20+ years.

Make all the excuses you want, you won a single game.

 

[Herclueless]

But you did. Regardless. You took advantage and didn't finish their by chance. You were hard to beat, you took it to other teams, you only lost to teams that finished above you (and Villa).

Milan and Dortmund are nothing special. Stop pretending like they are. Both of them will be out in the next round.

At least when we got knocked out by Milan we all acknowledged it was because we were garbage, no-one was pretending that it was because Milan were amazing...

Well, only one guy I guess...