Christian Eriksen

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Well of course, but again that's not the reality. No-one is saying that stats alone alone should dictate someone's impression of a player. I just said that stats provide context, insight and evidence to support opinions.

You know, just like how you're suggesting that someone who squandered 4 sitters, lost the ball 5 times and botched 3 free-kicks had a bad game. You are literally invoking stats to evidence your opinion, and when you think about it, that's ALL anyone can actually do.

What I'm saying is that looking at stats helps you determine whether or not someone has a point. Let's take an example of a supporter watching from the stands. He has no access to replays, no access to zoomed-in camera angles, no access to information such as how far that player has run, how many passes they've made, etc. All he has, is his limited perspective of what is happening, in real-time, undoubtledly heavily influenced by the emotions he is feeling during any given moment of play. Every single missed pass feels like a clanger. Every scuffed shot feels like a howler. Every time the opposition breaks, it feels like the player didn't track back enough. Every corner which fails to beat the first man feels like a waste of time.

Maybe he doesn't know that the player had a 93% pass completion rate. Maybe he doesn't know that the player has covered more distance than anyone in the game, and made the second-most tackles. Maybe he doesn't know that the shot he scuffed was actually because an opposition player subtly fouled him, but the ref didn't spot it. Maybe the player finally gets an assist in the end of the game, but it's too late to overturn the 2 goals the opposition scored because the defense went to sleep.

What if that supporter then leaves the ground, thinking that the player had a poor game, when in fact the player was one of the best performers on the pitch, and it just didn't FEEL like it, because the team lost?

That's precisely where stats can help that supporter understand what actually took place, and what their eyes missed, and why all the newspapers gave the player a rating of 8 for the game. If someone wants to double down on "well I know what I saw and stats can't tell me otherwise", then the whole idea of debating it becomes pointless.

Do you not agree with that? That's my whole point.



Again, if you're going to invent whatever circumstances you like, any time you like, then there's little point in discussing this, isn't there?



I think Frank Lampard was one of the best midfielders of his generation, born out by the fact that he scored more goals than most strikers.
Spot on, Superb post one of the best I’ve read on here for some time), eloquently argued, but I feel it’s possibly wasted on its recipient who when confronted with ideas that don’t conform or contradict his, likes to spout hackneyed football geezer cliches about how football is about the “eye test” and not “graphs” and if more people (like him) agree with him he must be right.
 
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Stats can be made to support any argument, for or against.

Almost all of the stats quoted are meaningless and are concocted for the benefit of the gambling companies and their hapless punters.

Pretty much the only thing that matters is the Mark 1 eyeball, knowledge of the game and common sense.

Eriksen had a good game yesterday, but was awful in parts (free-kicks, attempted tackles, missed passes etc). Stats don't convey this fact.

But stats do convey those facts.
 

Notabadsquad

Suspended
Well of course, but again that's not the reality. No-one is saying that stats alone alone should dictate someone's impression of a player. I just said that stats provide context, insight and evidence to support opinions.

You know, just like how you're suggesting that someone who squandered 4 sitters, lost the ball 5 times and botched 3 free-kicks had a bad game. You are literally invoking stats to evidence your opinion, and when you think about it, that's ALL anyone can actually do.

What I'm saying is that looking at stats helps you determine whether or not someone has a point. Let's take an example of a supporter watching from the stands. He has no access to replays, no access to zoomed-in camera angles, no access to information such as how far that player has run, how many passes they've made, etc. All he has, is his limited perspective of what is happening, in real-time, undoubtledly heavily influenced by the emotions he is feeling during any given moment of play. Every single missed pass feels like a clanger. Every scuffed shot feels like a howler. Every time the opposition breaks, it feels like the player didn't track back enough. Every corner which fails to beat the first man feels like a waste of time.

Maybe he doesn't know that the player had a 93% pass completion rate. Maybe he doesn't know that the player has covered more distance than anyone in the game, and made the second-most tackles. Maybe he doesn't know that the shot he scuffed was actually because an opposition player subtly fouled him, but the ref didn't spot it. Maybe the player finally gets an assist in the end of the game, but it's too late to overturn the 2 goals the opposition scored because the defense went to sleep.

What if that supporter then leaves the ground, thinking that the player had a poor game, when in fact the player was one of the best performers on the pitch, and it just didn't FEEL like it, because the team lost?

That's precisely where stats can help that supporter understand what actually took place, and what their eyes missed, and why all the newspapers gave the player a rating of 8 for the game. If someone wants to double down on "well I know what I saw and stats can't tell me otherwise", then the whole idea of debating it becomes pointless.

Do you not agree with that? That's my whole point.



Again, if you're going to invent whatever circumstances you like, any time you like, then there's little point in discussing this, isn't there?



I think Frank Lampard was one of the best midfielders of his generation, born out by the fact that he scored more goals than most strikers.
Good post. A nice read.

I think we can all get lost on an agenda at times and then we argue down blind alleys rejecting fact over a little fiction.

On Eriksen it is difficult because his bar has been so high.

If as seems very likely he moves on at the end of the season he will be a big loss.

I also think it fair and true to say that Eriksen has not been at the brilliant heights of previous seasons but to defer to your post, maybe that is because we fail to see the impact of the lack of trustworthy support around him.

He never hides is what I will say. NEVER.
 
I also think it fair and true to say that Eriksen has not been at the brilliant heights of previous seasons but to defer to your post, maybe that is because we fail to see the impact of the lack of trustworthy support around him.
I wouldn't even go that far, about the support. Frustration is understandable. I just always advocate trying to retain some perspective.
 
But stats do convey those facts.
Sure, they convey facts. But they aren't the whole picture (I would argue they're about 1% of the full picture). Stats portray no context, flow, disagreement, quality of the opposition or emotion to the 90 minutes. They're just there!

I far prefer to watch the game and make up my own mind. I very rarely resort to quoting stats to backup or refute any argument. I have no interest in 'sample sizes', 'pass completion rate', 'corners won', or 'Km run' (this last one is a joke as any Ethiopian long-distance athlete could turn in world class stats) They're there primarily for the betting punters.

Trust your eyes, intuition, football and player knowledge. It makes for a far better viewing experience.
 

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What kind of straw-man rubbish is this - when has that ever happened in a single game? Behave
The discussion moved on ten fold my friend

I'll jump out here, with the absolute conclusion to what Im saying:

You can play shit and assist.

You can play well and assist.

You can play well and not assist.

That assist says nothing about how you played over 90 minutes though, whether you did it for 50 games in a row, or 10, or 2.

Disagree all you want
 
I think he's playing at the same levels he always has...it's just because of all the contract speculation that people are looking at him in a more negative light and noticing the faults he always had, his numbers haven't changed much...
 
Yet people like you ignore the multiple shit crosses, look at the assist and say he was the most productive player in Europe that day.

I think Eriksen had a good game. I think he would have a good game even without the assist though.
You wouldnt......The Graph Says No

:bmj:
But I’ve literally been arguing exactly the opposite with you to this for the last few months.

You’ve just started to say he’s playing well again, now he’s getting assists and goals, and all the time he wasn’t you were saying he was “shit” but I’ve been saying the whole time he hasn’t been scoring and assisting that he’s still doing important things, intelligent things that others don’t do.

As ever you are calling out people for things they aren’t doing, whilst doing the exact thing you are calling out yourself.
 
You’ve just started to say he’s playing well again, now he’s getting assists and goals
Errr, what the fuck are you on about?

He's playing well because he's playing well. He would be playing well even if he didnt score or assist the last few games.

He has been poor, and still scored and assisted. I have said that to you the whole time.....where have you ever read that I think his performances have been good because of his stats?
Ive completely argued the opposite with you ffs, saying exactly what Ive been arguing now.

Stats do not paint the whole picture of what happens on the pitch.

What planet are you actually on?
 
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Totti

Chess extraordinaire
I thought he was poor yesterday to be honest.

But we won 4-0. He got an assist and we move on to a bigger game in the week.

We have potentially 9 games left of Christian Eriksen in a Spurs shirt, so let's just back him until then and hope he can continue to provide us with goals or assists.

And no, regardless of his assist column, I don't think he's had a better season than Dele has for us. But that's a conversation for a different time.
 

pleb

Supporter
Enjoy the Moment
I think he will resign for us as will most of the other holdouts.
The power of the new stadium and the shirt, as well as the new family on pitch ethos established by Lucas Moura Saturday will be too hard to say no to!
 

Airfixx

Take your miserable whining and fuck off.
I think he will resign for us as will most of the other holdouts.
The power of the new stadium and the shirt, as well as the new family on pitch ethos established by Lucas Moura Saturday will be too hard to say no to!
CE, TA &....?
 

pleb

Supporter
Enjoy the Moment
CE, TA &....?
JV, FL !Pretty sure we may have other players with 2 years and under who have not fully committed yet and this could perhaps be why the club have not extended other contracts of the younger players. There was something in the press about the club re-opening contract talks with TA to stop him from leaving for just 25mill. I would hope that the club want him to stay and this is resolved that we dont make too many cuts to the squad and lose any good academy players as well.
 

Airfixx

Take your miserable whining and fuck off.
JV, FL !Pretty sure we may have other players with 2 years and under who have not fully committed yet and this could perhaps be why the club have not extended other contracts of the younger players. There was something in the press about the club re-opening contract talks with TA to stop him from leaving for just 25mill. I would hope that the club want him to stay and this is resolved that we dont make too many cuts to the squad and lose any good academy players as well.
I guess it's your use of the phrase "holdouts" that's thrown me.

I doubt there's a deal on the proverbial table for Llorente... Logic suggests, the club would be more driven to get his wages off the bill if anything (Personally, I suspect he'll leave in the summer).

Never been any suggestion that Jan and the club are at loggerheads either.... (All quiet on this front, leaves me calm and confident he'll stay).
 

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pleb

Supporter
Enjoy the Moment
I guess it's your use of the phrase "holdouts" that's thrown me.

I doubt there's a deal on the proverbial table for Llorente... Logic suggests, the club would be more driven to get his wages off the bill if anything (Personally, I suspect he'll leave in the summer).

Never been any suggestion that Jan and the club are at loggerheads either.... (All quiet on thsi front, leaves me calm and confident he'll stay).
Yes bad choice of word emotions play a part in this. Players now have some world beating facilities both training and match and the club will now move upwards sure of that.
JV contracted until 2020 would like that extended he has been in our top three I reckon. CE and TA well if they go they go.
Hope Llorente goes out with a bang and continues to play like he did Saturday but also put some in the net before he goes
 
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