Bad luck, bad management or bad juju?

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I don't think the training methods are to blame, otherwise we would have the same number of injuries every year.

We have a full squad, but are hugely reliant on the same (attacking) players week in, week out.
If everyone is fit we know that it will be Dele, Ericksen, Kane and probably Son.

The question about the quality of depth is a different question, as has been said many times in the transfer thread, it's either;
Spend a shit load on one player.
Counter: Who is going to be better than the 4 mentioned above and therefore would be happy to sit on the bench unless they're being paid large wages and we have to shift players first.

Spend a shit load on 3 or 4 players.
Counter: As above

To answer the OP I think it is a combination of all 3.
Bad luck, especially getting so many injuries in the 1 position.

Bad management, not subbing key players early when a game is won, leading to the back up players not being match sharp.
 
It's surely lots of reasons.

We have been incredibly unlucky which happens. As with any set of data you don't use one set but a series. For example if we have a summer in the UK as hot as last year, then we are in sh!t street in terms of climate change.

So I think there is definitely a small link between lack of transfers and maybe injuries to players. Our squad is not the size of City's so can absorb less. United have had quite a few and they like us had numerous players at the world cup and only added Fred.

We have also played the joint most games I think or just behind Chelsea.

Another point is injuries to the same players. That suggests a lack of being ready on their return or maybe rushing back or their bodies compensating leading to other injuries.

As for our many semi-final losses, lets not conflate the 2 things.

Last night we lost with a side that would never have been on the same pitch if our full squad was available.

So the unbelievable number of semi-final losses continue (must be a record surely?) but even posters like me would be unfair to criticise Pochettino too much here but we need to cross the line the next chance we get.
 
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There is a definite case to say we should have played Llorente more, because he'd have been in a better state of readiness when we needed him or that we could have established that we need to bring forward other players.

We have a fair amount of cover but in some places we're just not there Tripps/Aurier for example, neither have been quite good enough for the level we're playing. Davies is not adventurous enough and Rose is not quite fit enough, I think we have reasonable cover at centre back and Lloris/Gazza is not a bad set of choices.

Midfield is an issue, Sissoko is not fit, Dembele gone, Dier an all rounder but not someone we should normally start with, Wanyama is a shadow of the player we bought, Winks is developing, there's a lot of work in progress. Eriksen is brilliant but he is not a player you can build a squad around, he can be brilliant, but you need one of Son, Dele or Kane to work off him.

In attack Moura is a good option, Lamela is inconsistent (I want him to succeed but his final product is not there), Son is brilliant but we do see him have great games and ones where he's burnt out and then there's Kane, who is genuinely world class but we are naturally over reliant on him. You have to conclude that the last couple of games we've looked pretty toothless in attack.

The problem is we just don't have the depth of other teams we're competing with. Let's say we sign Rabiot, he's a great player, but he's not going to fill the hole Kane leaves, he's also going to need time to bed in, potentially, by which time Kane & Son will be back.

We have a great first 11 when fully fit, realistically we're 2-3 seasons and probably 5-6 players away from having a great squad, hopefully some of that will come from development but we will need to buy some in and if we want to be at the top end of things we do need to look at competing on the wages front.

There is a counterpoint which you have to consider, we should not be top 4, we should not be in the champions league when you compare the level of money and squad depths of our rivals, that is the logical dispassionate view.

I believe it is on Poch that we are effectively ahead of the curve and we naturally raise our level of expectation as much as it's frustrating to say 'we're not there yet', it really is a marathon and not one of just this season but several years, we are not a club that can provide instant success, it has to be built and we are moving in the right direction albeit slower than I'd like.
 
Amazing that its a well known fact that our training methods are extreme, but it can’t be a factor.

Apparently having Grealish in the squad instead of N’Koudou, Sessengon instead of Davies and Ndombele instead of Wanyama means that 37 injuries wouldn’t have happened.

Be interested to look at our history pre and post Poch.
 
Henry Hotspur said:
Good post. More measured than a lot here since last night...and fairer than I’d be.

I’d go further in a couple of areas. 1) whilst no-one could’ve forseen 37 injuries...football clubs (like ours) surely sit down in May and plan for the next season. We could all see that a CM was an absolute necessity, probably followed up by another credible striker. As I’ve posted last night, January isn’t the time to do business, yet we may now be forced to due to a lack of foresight in the summer.

2). It seems like bad juju that we always seem to get the hardest draw in cup competitions but once on the pitch luck has little to do with it. Poor preparation, questionable team selections and psychological resolve all appear to be at the heart of our many defeats and failures to ‘get over the line’ - not just semi finals but key league games too. Surely the manager carries the can on this?
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100% on your last bit in particular but not last night.

Posters have to remember that in the first game and whilst we did win and with our better players Chelsea pushed us back nearly the whole of the 2nd half.

But there is something and I think deep down Pochettino knows it.

Once and if we get past that last hurdle we will be fine. You just sensed yesterday Chelsea believed they would win and that only comes from knowing what winning feels like.

Of the summer preparations I am in agreement but not sure it is players alone that take us over the line.
 
Notabadsquad said:
It's surely lots of reasons.

We have been incredibly unlucky which happens. As with any set of data you don't use one set but a series. For example if we have a summer in the UK as hot as last year, then we are in sh!t street in terms of climate change.

So I think there is definitely a small link between lack of transfers and maybe injuries to players. Our squad is not the size of City's so can absorb less. United have had quite a few and they like us had numerous players at the world cup and only added Fred.

We have also played the joint most games I think or just behind Chelsea.

Another point is injuries to the same players. That suggests a lack of being ready on their return or maybe rushing back or their bodies compensating leading to other injuries.

As for our many semi-final losses, lets not conflate the 2 things.

Last night we lost with a side that would never have been on the same pitch if our full squad was available.

So the unbelievable number of semi-final losses continue (must be a record surely?) but even posters like me would be unfair to criticise Pochettino too much here but we need to cross the line the next chance we get.
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Seems to me semi final time is groundhog day, we always seem to have loads of injuries and general fatigue by this time of the season, Son at LWB anyone ?
 
Is anyone aware of the training methods having changed? We have very fine training facilities and sports scientists, dieticians and physios coming out of our ears!

It's certainly not luck.

In my view it's down (in large part) to flogging players to death by playing them in every game, which results from not having a suitably deep squad.

Playing game after game will have a cumulative effect resulting in a miniscule slowdown in reaction and response times. Being a fraction of a second late into a tackle can result (at best) in a yellow card. At worst, an injury.

Additionally (and this is purely down to the manager), not subbing players when the game is won, for their own protection. It didn't look good having Kane run around for the last twenty minutes when the game was over versus Everton. Bringing him on against Tranmere defied belief.

A lot of this stems from last summer!
 
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Have we now had more injuries than we've lost Semi-Finals...? or is it the other way around!
Either way, it seems there's little point progressing in the FA Cup now, as it is well publicised that we'll fail in the Semis...
Likewise, not much point going on in the League, as we're officially 'bottlers'...
Honestly dunno why they even bother...

Let's pack up football now shall we... see you again (at Wembley probably) in August!!



(I'm not sure what my actual point us btw!)
 
If you look at the minutes played by our players compared to last season, and indeed compared to any of our rivals this season it's no different at all. Kane's played the most 1,887 there are 51 EPL players with more minutes than him ....

the big difference is the number of minutes played in the summer by our players compared to most others. Is that a reason? who knows, but of the 12 who went to Russia 10 have been injured this season ...
 
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Ok, this took a while, but since Poch took over we've had 286 separate injuries
In the last ten years we've had 676 separate injuries, so actually he's pretty much on track
(basically he's there were 104 more injuries over 6 years, than Poch has amassed in 4)

No idea what types of injuries etc relate to what methods, you can read it yourselves


Tottenham Hotspur Injuries
 
adasai said:
Can we please not talk about bad luck and media bias constantly. This victim mentality is making us look like dippers
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When did I bring up the media?

And if you don't think luck has anything to do with injuries and squad fitness, then I don't know what to tell you.
 
Mick Cooper said:
This thread is bloody hilarious
Loads of people arguing black and blue over whose fertile imagination, wild arsed guesswork and made up facts are the most likely to be right.

Are there any other subjects that we collectively know fuck all about, that we can get into a heated discussion over?

Who did kill Marilyn, Jimmy Hoffa and Red Rum?
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Red rum was old and died. Not sure about Shergar though?!
 
Be interesting to see the split of how many of these injuries are due to impact and tumbles vs which were just players pulling up with a proverbial 'ping' (ergo more directly relatable to any conditioning/physio fail)...

A few "illnesses" in there too.
 
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