AVB'S BLUE & WHITE ARMY

[ArtyB]

Yeah, what has fucking AVB ever done for us?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ[/youtube]

 

[Tommy Harmer]

Your tone sucks, and your mind is already made up on AVB, and the people you are "trying" to debate with.

You are asking people to predict the future and patronizing them while your at it. How the fuck can anyone here tell you when AVB will have us playing the football YOU will be satisfied with?

You call that a genuine question?

Not Jiggins are you?

My tone sucks?
How about yours? I haven't patronised anyones answer, because nobody has attempted to do so.

Neither am I actually asking anyone to predict the future, but seeing as you are all so protective about the guy who has proved so little (so far, in my opinion) I figured that someone must have a view, on when he was going to start influencing the way the team plays in a positive manner.

As far as I can see - some of you are more than satisfied (with what has been achieved) does this therefore mean that you (any of you) think that he has already started to change things for the better?

 

[sammyspurs]

Pos Repped by mistake :defoe:

 

[STF]

Dead on Arty some still follow the JPF it seems.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS-0Az7dgRY[/youtube]

 

[sammyspurs]

You are asking people to predict the future and patronizing them while your at it.

I haven't patronised anyones answer, because nobody has attempted to do so.

"Oh look, Im Tommy The Troll and Ive changed what you actually said to fit in with the answer I want to give you"

 

[ArtyB]

Dead on Arty some still follow JPF it seems.

[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS-0Az7dgRY ]

One of the best Fuck Offs in recorded history.

 

[Tommy Harmer]

Between us, plenty of your post was answered, so I don't know why you're pretending we ignored your questions and played a straw man.

In your most recent post you've just said our losses to the likes of Wigan were made to look worse because they were contrasted with our amazing games under Harry. Well, you're not the only one with a good memory. When we lost at home to Wigan it was a fucking awful game, we were shite. I certainly didn't need to reflect on our better games in order to regret having stood there watching such a load of dross. You ARE airbrushing our time under Harry when you make claims like that.

I never claimed to you or anyone else that AVB is some sort of genius. I believe he's a good manager, obviously you disagree. But you're basing that on his time at Chelsea. What you have said is that what he's done here so far is less than the minimum we should expect. Someone above already pointed out to you that our league position and points tally is clearly not "less than the minimum."

You are saying we are in the 'messiah' camp but it's you making the ludicrous claims, not us. Our league position and points tally is NOT less than any minimum. Our current squad wasn't even available for some of those games. You are literally saying he's been shit here because we lost at NUFC and drew against Norwich/WBA. While in the same breath saying it's alright for Harry to get shit results because he also got good ones.

Nobody chucked petrol on you, why are you so sensitive? We've answered your questions with our opinions. It seems that unless we agree with everything you say, we are all blindly following our new messiah and are therefore clearly idiots. So it's not us being the cunts really, is it? You've given the manager a few games. He's actually got a fairly decent record in those games too, as it happens.

You should try to understand what a straw man argument is, before erroneously accusing someone of employing the tactic. Particularly as you then proceded to do exactly what you accused me of doing.
Then you accuse me of being sensitive, whilst displaying precisely that quality yourself.


Did I say that he had achieved less than should be expected? I think I said what you could reasonably expect with the players we have. At no time did I say he has been shit, what I am saying is that I haven't seen any positive changes in the style of play, that either have worked, or have shown a marked improvement on where we were, with the previous managerial regime.

Why so hostile and aggressive?

 

[Tommy Harmer]

You are asking people to predict the future and patronizing them while your at it.

I haven't patronised anyones answer, because nobody has attempted to do so.

"Oh look, Im Tommy The Troll and Ive changed what you actually said to fit in with the answer I want to give you"

Are you unwell?

 

[sammyspurs]

Are you unwell?

Im not the one sitting behind my computer all satisfied, feeling a sense of accomplishment, because I very slightly annoyed a few people that I dont know, and will never, ever meet.

 

[Tommy Harmer]

as sammyspurs pointed out, your whole argument is so unbelievably mixed up it's hard to know where to start; two points you make are completely contradictory:

1) we don't understand how bad it was (we do), we're spoilt by success, 4th is a fantastic achievement (it was) etc etc

2) the manager, who just lead a spurs side to victory at old trafford for the first time in 23 years, isn't performing well enough.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make here, unless the point is to try to assert that you are a better fan than any of us so can say what you like.

Ok - where did I say I was a better fan than anyone on here? I didn't did I?

I didn't say that anyone didn't understand how bad things have been, I simply pointed out that there have been some dire sides in our history, and that the present manager, in my opinion has replaced someone who managed to produce the best football I have watched, in my time. Not once did I say that my support was better than anyone elses.

I have looked in on here for a while, and I see a lot of really positive comments on how AVB is doing a great job, as well as the same old same old denigration of Harry the Bastard, the worst manager ever yada yada yada. Not since I have been posting in this thread, but plenty of tiumes, in plenty of threads across several message boards.


I have watched enough football, and played enough to know what looks good, and what doesn't, and I have been waiting to see what this guy brings to the club, that we didn't have before, in footballing terms. I asked the question, and no-one has bothered to attempt an answer, just loads of histrionic abuse, because I'm not one of the blind faithful.

Out of curiousity, when he was at Chelsea, did you look at what he was doing and think - I'd love him to be at Spurs doing that?

 

[Tommy Harmer]

Pretentious Prick

OK, I think I have found out where you lot sit.

Yes the club did play some dross, the gooner game from 2 up is one of the biggest guttings I have taken following the team,

Personally if you know our history like you claim I would have picked the 0-5 at home in 78 I was at the game.
But my worst was 7-0 loss to Liverpool away in 78 I was at that game the worst week or five I have ever had as a Spurs Supporter.

So fuck off With the I've been through shit if you count last years loss at the library in the mix. losing last year hurt but we should have reacted to it team and manager but we didn't.

Support AVB damn right I do he's the Manager I also support the Players, chairman cleaners even its Tottenham Hotspur that I support and all the comes with it good or bad

very rare I get pissed enough with a post but this is one of them.

Oh great, you want to have a pissing contest about who has been hurt the most by Spurs

You win. Feel better?

Now you have got it out of your system and soothed your tattered nerves - how about answering the question?


I'm only asking for opinions, not soothsaying or some kind of voodoo

 

[Tommy Harmer]

Are you unwell?

Im not the one sitting behind my computer all satisfied, feeling a sense of accomplishment, because I very slightly annoyed a few people that I dont know, and will never, ever meet.

Well that makes 2 of us then

I asked a question - what is so bad about asking for peoples opinions on when the man is going to do something positive that shows the step up that we are led to expect?

You all seem riotously happy with what has been achieved, and I'm disappointed - so help me out, what have I missed?

 

[ArtyB]

Three posts in a row, never a good sign.

 

[Tommy Harmer]

Exactly, this is laughable. Basically we're all cunts because we haven't already hung drawn and quartered the manager.

point out where I said that

 

[Éperons]

I have been waiting to see what this guy brings to the club, that we didn't have before, in footballing terms. I asked the question, and no-one has bothered to attempt an answer

Defoe looks a completely different player. I have to think that is more due to AVB than to an eagerness to impress because of Adebayor's presence.

I also think that Caulker's presence in the first team is partly due to AVB, but who knows.

Once the team is entirely fit, we'll see more of AVB's stamp (like if Sandro remains favoured over Parker).

 

[Yiddo_Dave]

as sammyspurs pointed out, your whole argument is so unbelievably mixed up it's hard to know where to start; two points you make are completely contradictory:

1) we don't understand how bad it was (we do), we're spoilt by success, 4th is a fantastic achievement (it was) etc etc

2) the manager, who just lead a spurs side to victory at old trafford for the first time in 23 years, isn't performing well enough.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make here, unless the point is to try to assert that you are a better fan than any of us so can say what you like.

Ok - where did I say I was a better fan than anyone on here? I didn't did I?

I didn't say that anyone didn't understand how bad things have been, I simply pointed out that there have been some dire sides in our history, and that the present manager, in my opinion has replaced someone who managed to produce the best football I have watched, in my time. Not once did I say that my support was better than anyone elses.

I have looked in on here for a while, and I see a lot of really positive comments on how AVB is doing a great job, as well as the same old same old denigration of Harry the Bastard, the worst manager ever yada yada yada. Not since I have been posting in this thread, but plenty of tiumes, in plenty of threads across several message boards.


I have watched enough football, and played enough to know what looks good, and what doesn't, and I have been waiting to see what this guy brings to the club, that we didn't have before, in footballing terms. I asked the question, and no-one has bothered to attempt an answer, just loads of histrionic abuse, because I'm not one of the blind faithful.

Out of curiousity, when he was at Chelsea, did you look at what he was doing and think - I'd love him to be at Spurs doing that?

I don't think you can include what happened in that cesspit of a club in your assessment on whether AVB is doing a good job here or not. And funnily enough when everyone was giving him a hard time, i thought that he was being unfairly treated by the media. He was brought in to do a job of creating a chelsea for the future and at the first sign of player unrest the owner hung him out to dry.

But the point others have made is that your argument rests on the idea that under Harry we played great football all the time. Which isn't true. Nobody here thinks that Harry was the worst manager ever, clearly, that would be stupid. People just recognise his limitations, tactical failings and short termism. AVB is a man to create a legacy, he has a clear vision and the idea of judging him on his early games with a new squad learning a new system is crazy.

Even with those problems he won at Old Trafford! Which despite being "worst man u ever" which people say every year, is a side who will either win the league or come damn close.

 

[STF]

Harry had major faults so maybe does AVB it took Harry two full seasons to get the team performing like it did first half of last season.

So I would think anyone would give AVB a Season to get it working the way he wants then you can take a true retrospective account of what he is about and the way he manages the team.

And if we had not sold Crouch at the beginning of last season would we have performed as well as Harry was not so happy he went.

and I for one I'm not a Defoe follower but he has changed his game a bit so far this year now we have to look at that the Manager now has had a hand in that.

So to me that's a start if only a small one and kudos down to the Coaching team which is after all headed by AVB.


P.S. You started the pissing contest by branding everyone on the forum the same sheep i think not anyone else with your or so many years of Spurs wisdom Plenty on here can match you and a even a few that can surpass you.

OK, I think I have found out where you lot sit.

 

[Tommy Harmer]

So here's the question again - so have a crack at answering it, rather than trying to gut me with fish knife, when are we going to see some evidence of the Portugee wunderkind's mercurial talents?

Dude, you are trolling, this is not quite "when did you stop beating your wife?" territory but it's getting close. You show up here and demand people answer your loaded questions, which are premised on a slanted worldview.

You blame AVB for a decline from last year while conveniently failing to acknowledge:

1) that we have lost Modric (who wanted to leave)
2) we have lost VDV (who wanted to leave),
3) King retired (and he was a rock for at least the first half of the season last year)
4) Adebayor has not been fit all year, and hasn't started a game yet
5) BAE has been out with an injury, and was off form because playing hurt before that
6) Parker, aka our player of the season last year has not played a game yet
7) Kaboul, who was a rock next to King last year, has been injured

That's seven players out of last year's starting lineup who Harry selected every single week and whom AVB has mostly not even had a chance to choose from. And you wonder why the team is playing a little differently?!?

And despite all that, AVB has wrung new life out of Defoe, as a lone striker, which I don't think we've ever seen work before, he has a squad of brand new players working fairly well together, and we are still grinding out results, including beating Man Utd away (if you had told me in the summer we were going to beat Man Utd at Old Trafford with Defoe as a lone striker the entire game I would have thought you were high).

If all that has not shown you at least a scrap of evidence of AVB's "mercurial talents" there's no point in continuing the conversation because you are irredeemably biased against him. And none of this requires anyone to believe he is a messiah, these are just facts.

Plus what is this bullshit about the worst United team ever? The whole point of United's dominance over us at Old Trafford is that even when they field reasonably beatable teams, we end up falling flat on our faces. This is the team that played last year at Old Trafford and spanked us 3-0:

David De Gea,
Jonny Evans,
Phil Jones,
Chris Smalling,
Patrice Evra,
Tom Cleverley (Ryan Giggs, 82),
Anderson,
Ashley Young (Park Ji-Sung, 82),
Nani,
Wayne Rooney,
Danny Welbeck (Javier Hernández, 82)

Ah yes, Harry had no chance against world beaters like Danny Welbeck! Thank god this year they were forced to settle for Van Persie instead.

I was talking about the way they played and went about their business. When they stepped up a gear, our team played like headless chickens - but rather than ship goals like last year at the immigrants, we deployed a Roman legion defence and looked like a poor version of San Marino or Leichtenstein. If we had played and lost to a team that did that to us, we would have slaughtered them on any message board.

 

[Tommy Harmer]

Harry had major faults so maybe does AVB it took Harry two full seasons to get the team performing like it did first half of last season.

So I would think anyone would give AVB a Season to get it working the way he wants then you can take a true retrospective account of what he is about and the way he manages the team.

And if we had not sold Crouch at the beginning of last season would we have performed as well as Harry was not so happy he went.

and I for one I'm not a Defoe follower but he has changed his game a bit so far this year now we have to look at that the Manager now has had a hand in that.

So to me that's a start if only a small one and kudos down to the Coaching team which is after all headed by AVB.


P.S. You started the pissing contest by branding everyone on the forum the same sheep i think not anyone else with your or so many years of Spurs wisdom Plenty on here can match you and a even a few that can surpass you.

OK, I think I have found out where you lot sit.

I wouldn't be at all surprised - so whats your point?

 

[VirginiaSpur]

You're backtracking on everything that you say, and virtually everything you post is self-contradictory.

YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO ARGUMENT.

Your opinion is settled based on his time at Chelsea, absolutely convinced in your assumption that AVB will see no more success at Spurs than he did at Chelsea. Well, guess what, the players are behind him at the moment, it seems, and I really didn't see that they were too upset when Redknapp left, despite the media's wide agreement that the legendary man manager's departure would spark an exodus and that the players would refuse to train under AVB.

You keep harping on about how AVB has "proved so little," but neither had Redknapp when he was appointed. How many people rated him, and how many people laughed at his appointment?

But the one thing that I really don't understand, the one thing that I simply can't wrap my head around, and what I still think you've failed to explain to any satisfactory degree, is your disappointment with our play and performances so far.

Did I say that he had achieved less than should be expected? I think I said what you could reasonably expect with the players we have. At no time did I say he has been shit, what I am saying is that I haven't seen any positive changes in the style of play, that either have worked, or have shown a marked improvement on where we were, with the previous managerial regime.

So, he hasn't done poorly, we can't reasonably expect a better league position with the players we currently have, you haven't said that AVB is shit, and there's been no appreciable change in our style or play compared to Redknapp. WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT THEN????

Nobody has said that AVB is divine. We're happy to have a manager that isn't freezing players out of the squad willy-nilly and refusing to accept any small amount of responsibility for poor results, but HOW can you say that we can't expect better at the moment, but your disappointed that he hasn't caused dramatic improvements in a squad that you were already pleased as shit with?