Kind of feels like Ange has thrown the team in the deep end and is even putting his foot on the heads of a few who look like they're struggling, there's definitely some scar tissue forming, call it blind faith but I think it's a genuine attempt to form something that can hold up and step up in the future. Romero and vdV were heroic from start to finish and even though they were under the pump 3-0 down they kept at it, they set a tone that some others can and need to follow!
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thats the end game though. surely when you come into a club you find whats best for what you have, to get optimal performance from what you got. you dont have emerson royal playing RWB and is your main man on the ball in the final third!! thats not going to work is it.
also look at the signings hes got in...werner, johnson??? they are counter attacking forwards, they dont work against sides that are happy to be pinned in because they dont have the guile to break down a side like that....makes no sense.
What you're telling me is exactly what I and alot of others already know
There are certain sections of our squad that aren't of the required level for the system at hand. They will need to be looked at and upgraded in the summer.
Werner is the right profile for what the system needs. Just quite obviously not of the required quality to be a starter.
what makes werner tick the box? because hes a decent enough dribbler? thats literally it with him, hes as bad at finishing as nunez and his crossing and flashing the ball across the box could be far better.
weve spent 50m on johnson who does not fit this system at all. pace merchant that is only really useful if hes got half a pitch to burst into. shockingly bad recruitment if your aim is to pin a side in and boss a game.
I wanted to metaphorically chin Conte and Jose , I am a long way off feeling like that about Ange . Those two played rubbish football and had no respect for the club or its fans . We might not be playing great right now but Conte and Jose had peak Kane and Son in tandem , I dread to think what they would have done without that
I think Johnson has been fine and actually fits the system well, fits it better than Kulu Werner or son does
Well, I mean yes. You just confirmed why he isn't of the required quality to be a starter...
Look at how often we get Werner 1 v 1 with his man, he beats him and puts a cross in....
That's exactly what Ange wants from his winger. Ergo, right profile.
However, it's the productivity with Werner on a consistent basis that lets him and us down.
We need someone who can not only score goals but can consistently be dangerous when given the ball, technically brilliant enough to be able to keep hold of the ball in tight situations and either create something or win a foul to prevent the turnover.
Werner is almost too nice and lacks belief. Which is a shame but said it before, if he could score, he wouldn't be at Spurs.
Not sure about that. Ten Hag came in tried to play his way at the start with attacking football, looked good at first, they got injuries and now he is a low block merchant. It works sometimes but United are now limited, they can grind out results but they could have looked to be more.
It comes back to the club. Most elite managers have one way of playing, they might tinker a little but, Klopp, Pep, Conte etc. you either back them or you don’t. They won’t change due to the club not having the players or not being willing to spend. We have never actually supported a manager to an elite level with good money, scouting and time, never, hence we never really challenge except for the odd occasion. Werner is a cheap fill in squad option, Johnson is a very talented but still developing young player, those signings are small fry for the whole required fix.
If we want a manager that is more able to work with what he has, perhaps an Emery type of manager, I think that has more long term limitations. But the business model of the club I cannot see us ever winning something unless we take a longer term view of how we play and who we buy. We can’t win as a pound shop Chelsea hiring and firing managers. It doesn’t work.
The only reason I am slightly more optimistic this time is we have Scott Munn, Lange and Paratici which means more people between the manager and Levy who should not be involved in football decisions like the past.
Werner and Johnson only work in our system if the opposition don’t sit in. Both can’t play with back to goal or link up and struggle when there’s no grass to run into. They are better suited to conte ball. These two are counter attacking players. We need players that can take the ball under pressure go in and link and interchange and mix their game up. Those two plus Sonny are straight line players that need space
son is shocking if youre trying to boss a game. kulu is probably the profile that fits the system the most but hes been shit for a while now. the rest are all counter attacking forwards that need the game made simple for them.
exactly!! not fucking rocket science
Yeah, both lack the technical quality.
I like both of them. But they're not starters in this system if we want to go up a level. Johnson is great when coming off the bench or in certain fixtures. Werner likewise.
In fact, we don't have a single wide player who suits the system.
But we need that Williams type. 100%
I think it's also a way to determine who in the squad just won't cut it going forward. Plenty of identifying 'outs' for this summer, by the looks of it (his mood in the post match press conference seemed like he has a list).
Can we just have a player who is comfortable on the ball and want the ball in tight space, Johnson and Werner treat the ball like a hot potato because they're not comfortable with it.
I watched how Eze manipulated the ball at Anfield and wanted the ball with players around him, do you know how much of a difference it makes when you have wingers like that, we are in so much desperate need for them man.
you impose yourself on inferior sides and you counter sides that will beat you toe to toe.....just like madrid v city the other week. id take as much pride in us beating a better side by boxing clever as you would walloping some shithouses 6-0.
the game was easy for the scum yesterday, they willingly concede possession knowing we are easy to counter and wont produce much if they are pinned in as we dont have the players to do it....why would they go toe to toe when the game is an easy win by just containing and countering? its only when we got richy on and started putting the ball in the box that havoc was caused...FFS our only real goal threat before then was romero who was willing to get in the box and attack the fucking ball.
never breaking down a side camped in with a front 3 that are made for counter attacking. you either need a cunt like richarlison whos going to have a scrap in the box and attack crosses...or you need genuine quality footballers with technique, I.Q and vision. they are hard to come by...proper footballers.
Few thoughts from me on the game.
Some of the Ange out stuff is laughable and reactionary,I left yesterday with huge frustration about the way we lost, but also a belief that there’s a pathway for us to be a really really good side with some tactical tweaks and good recruitment.
I believe in Ange and if I’m wrong I’m happy to fall on my sword. He’s going to be a great manger for us.
COYS
- How is it possible to think we played really well and yet utter shit all at the same time? The game really has that feeling. If you look at all the stats and key chances it’s not a game we deserve to lose, but ultimately we’re 3-0 down at home to our biggest rivals and that simply isn’t good enough.
- As above, I thought we played ok. Our press in the first half was better than it has been recently and whilst an element of the way the game went was because they allowed us to come onto them, you have to be reasonably happy with the overall way we played.
- A different bit of luck here and there and the game is different. Romero 2 great chances first half, Sonny through on goal, VDV marginally offside and the penalty incident that led to their goal - this could have been very very different.
- Having said that, we have no one to blame here but ourselves. I’m struggling to think of a side in PL history who has looked so weak defending corners as we have over the last 4 months. It’s frankly unacceptable. The zonal piece isn’t working, not in the slightest. Yesterday we had Romero, VDV, Davies, Bentancur and Hojbjerg on the pitch who are all decent in the air. Give them a man for man assignment and make them accountable for stopping their fucking man from scoring. Anyone who watched Maddison marking Dan Burn in the Newcastle game and thought “this will work long term” is a fucking idiot.
- To add to that, I don’t think Vicario is helping with the nervousness at corners. The Havertz goal is a metre from his starting position, he has to be more assertive there.
- I’m annoyed at the Saka goal on the counter but happy to take those risks as a byproduct of the way we play. Overall though it did feel like we left Davies a little exposed one on one to Saka too many times. It was their best outlet particularly in the first half. I like risks, and I like backing your players one on one - but Davies against Saka is never an option we should choose.
- I am starting to see an issue with us defending the overlap. I can’t be bothered to write chapters on it but keep an eye out in the next game.
- Thought Kulu was excellent as he often seems to be in these big games. He can be a real asset against a high pressing team as an outlet with his physicality. Probably our MOTM. Shame he can’t do it against the lesser sides in the league with any consistency.
- I thought it was fucking wonderful to see Son make an early run in behind for once and for us to find him. He needs to stretch CBs much much more than he has since reverting to CF. No one wants Son running in behind them and even if he doesn’t get the ball, it creates space in front of the CBs which is where Maddison does his best work.
- Having said that, Son’s effort was really poor and his overall play is just so bad. If there is still a significant Saudi offer on the table this summer I would seriously consider taking it. Outside of these first 10 games it’s been 2 seasons of sub-par Sonny now. Do we back him to get better?
- The general frustration with our horseshoe passing around the edge of the opponents 18 yard box is still there. We need to take more gambles, commit bodies into the box and occasionally put a hopeful ball in there. You can get events like the pen on Davies only if you get the ball into the box on occasion. More risks needed, we’re looking too much for that perfect goal.
- CM isn’t quite working as a functioning unit to me ATM. Maybe it’s that the combos aren’t working, but it often seems like those who come on at 60 mins do better than those who start the game regardless of personnel. Odd? It all comes back to that urgency we require in every part of our play - we start every game in CM playing too slowly and too comfortably for the opposition
- Outside of defending corners Romero and VDV were awesome. If we keep them together it seems unfathomable to me that our defence won’t improve long-term (if we can sort the shit at set pieces).
- Nothing radical here - our forward options aren’t elite. That’s ok one season after selling Kane, but we need better quality in those areas and quick.
- Neville was spot on about us being a box to box team. It’s arguable we’re the best in the league in that area TBH, perhaps after City. But we need to improve at the ends where the game is won and lost, some of that is on personnel, some on coaching.
- A note on our opposition - I thought they were pretty shit TBH. Please god don’t let these cunts win the league.
Some of the Ange out stuff is laughable and reactionary,I left yesterday with huge frustration about the way we lost, but also a belief that there’s a pathway for us to be a really really good side with some tactical tweaks and good recruitment.
I believe in Ange and if I’m wrong I’m happy to fall on my sword. He’s going to be a great manger for us.
COYS
The focus of whether it was a foul on Vicario is a pretty pointless discussion when we have seen it happen numerous times to him with no foul ever called.
We could simply counter it by putting one of ours to stay on that player but that would mean the staff have had some sort of discussion regarding defending set pieces and we can't have that can we.
We could simply counter it by putting one of ours to stay on that player but that would mean the staff have had some sort of discussion regarding defending set pieces and we can't have that can we.
werner needs a run with richy to aim for. if you got a wide man who can get to the byline and flash a ball across the box...the last striker you want is son whos going to avoid getting clattered by any means necessary.
diaz would of been perfect but we obviously got blown out by liverpool...