Ange Postecoglou

[Deuterz]

That's the ideal.

But we scored early against Forest and West Ham and their game plans never changed..

Lol yes they did. Forest equalised against us and then were dominant for large periods. They missed an open goal. For most of the first half they were actually the team in control.

Second half we re-asserted it but Forest low block? They had more xG than us. More clear cut opportunities.

 

[Kekerinho]

No manager on the planet is coming in and doing any better over the course of the season than what Ange has done and what he inherited.

The delusion of Postecoglou fans is something else.

 

[Herclueless]

That's the ideal.

But we scored early against Forest and West Ham and their game plans never changed..

Most teams don't abandon all out defence against us. They just rely on the odd chance they do get when one of our attackers loses the ball due to not being good enough on it.

These teams know they can mark Son out of a game. We aren't going to go wide and cross because Son isn't winning headers. And these opposing teams want us to play the ball to Sons feet, because they have the beating of him.

Until we've got a forward line that will strike fear into those low block teams. We're always going to get the 70% possession games where we will eventually win because we create enough, but it is never going to be pretty.

Man City games are ridiculously boring for this reason. Sprinkled with moments of magic because of how good their offence is.

Honestly, if we had say Eze - Solanke-Williams as our front three this season as an example, we'd have conceded less goals and scored more and probably won more too.

This is the next step for this squad. Finding a front three that fits.

Well that's where you accept less than ideal and just allow them to do that.

You don't give away stupid corners when you're terrible at defending them, you don't leave acres of space in behind for relegation fodder's donkey of a striker to have the freedom of the city in front of your keeper by recklessly chasing a second as though you're trying to overturn an aggregate scoreline...

We're 1-0 up early and they still aren't coming out, pass it around then, they'll either have to eventually or we'll win 1-0 controlling the ball.

 

[Crowny]

History tells us it should be so.

Anges teams always do better in the second season. Always. Every single club he's managed.

First season is to nail down the mentality of how he wants the team to play. Almost all focus on that because it's the crux.

Second season, it should be pretty much engrained and second nature. But Ange will know from what he's seen over 12 months who's passed the test and will know exactly what needs upgrading. And that's when we can start to iron it all out tactically.

Again if we're having this conversation next year. Then perhaps it isn't going to work out.

But you’d still expect to see progress over that 1st season and unfortunately we’re doing the opposite. Most of us agree that a large part of the story is that teams have worked us out (vs the beginning of the season where we had the element of surprise).

The drop in form in players like Mads, Son, Biss and Kulu (he was better yday but still) has pretty much killed us. I’m willing to give Ange the benefit of the doubt here and suggest this isn’t his responsibility but it’s worrying that these players who we assumed were going to be our bedrock moving forwards, appear now to be nothing of the sort.

Defensively is where Ange deserves most of his criticism. We have individually brilliant defensive players and just shouldn’t be conceding so many easy chances and goals. This has got worse over the season when we have had plenty of downtime (no Europe and out of cups) to work on it.
Plus his tinkering of that midfield is bloody infuriating- work out your 1st choice midfield FFS!!!

The pressure is on him now and as is ever the question, how much is that bloody chairman going to help him.

 

[Deuterz]

The delusion of Postecoglou fans is something else.

I’m still on the Ange has done alright given the ridiculous board situation but the idea NO coach could do better than distant 5th, losing to all our rivals at home and out of the cups early is hilariously silly. Of course they could. Look at what Emery has done at Villa!

We lost Kane but gained Vicario, Udogie, VDV, Maddison, Johnson, Werner.. anyone gonna say these aren’t improvements on what we had?????

 

[Phomesy]

We didn't have a shot on target until raya gifted it to romero in the 70 odd minute. We created fuck all of note and we scored from a foul in the box and a keeper error. They were better defensively than us and like it or not in an attacking sense because they identified we are poor on corners and scored twice, identified our full backs are never where they should be and played a ball over that area and then scored from it. While we let them sit in their shape and passed it side to side. What did we win on exactly possession only? Woolwich like many others (as it's easy to do) identified our weaknesses and took advantage of them to win the game. That's what good teams do. There was only one winner yesterday.

I don't necessarily disagree with your point but, firstly, Scum are very good team and we aren't yet. Secondly if Romero puts either of his two gilt edged header chances into the net that first half plays out completely differently - and that's not even counting the penalty Kulu should have had which would have cancelled out their second goal. They scored their two set piece goals - we just missed. It makes HUGE difference.

I'll say it again - it fucking sucks that we lost but the over-reaction by many is absurd. This was a much better performance than the Newcastle game.

The proof in the Ange pudding comes next year and the one after that.

 

[Legacy Lilywhite]

There is a long way to go with Ange, I think elements of our play are good however there are clearly flaws that need to be worked on. I like how the team don't give up, the 2nd halfs are evidence of that, we do have a good record of clawing back points.

I'm keeping the faith, like Ange said styles of play and a mentality of being able to play a good style of football isn't built in however many months.

I for one am prepared to be patient because if you can't then is there any point, because you'll only be moaning in 7 months time again about the same old stuff.

I agree with the sentiment and like your post, but…

… as a STH for around 30 years, and having backed the club home and away for all of ENIC’s tenure, I and all of us have been very patient. Spurs fans have been waiting a generation for things to come good.

I don’t want to be cynical but history means I can’t help wondering whether, when Levy was smugly sat next to Ange at the Fans Forum earlier in the season, proclaiming we had got our “club back”, what he was really inferring was that we had simply found another romantic mug for us to get behind and squeeze out another round of the most expensive season tickets and hospitality in world football.

 

[Herclueless]

But you’d still expect to see progress over that 1st season and unfortunately we’re doing the opposite. Most of us agree that a large part of the story is that teams have worked us out (vs the beginning of the season where we had the element of surprise).

The drop in form in players like Mads, Son, Biss and Kulu (he was better yday but still) has pretty much killed us. I’m willing to give Ange the benefit of the doubt here and suggest this isn’t his responsibility but it’s worrying that these players who we assumed were going to be our bedrock moving forwards, appear now to be nothing of the sort.

Defensively is where Ange deserves most of his criticism. We have individually brilliant defensive players and just shouldn’t be conceding so many easy chances and goals. This has got worse over the season when we have had plenty of downtime (no Europe and out of cups) to work on it.
Plus his tinkering of that midfield is bloody infuriating- work out your 1st choice midfield FFS!!!

The pressure is on him now and as is ever the question, how much is that bloody chairman going to help him.

There's a couple of things to this.

Firstly, all of this players who we mostly thought were great earlier on in the season, actually all of a sudden aren't all that, and form has fallen off of a cliff. Really? How likely is it that we were so wrong about all of them initially? How much of a coincidence is it that their form has just disappeared the longer they've spent under these coaches?

And secondly, even if Ange and his crew are the second coming of Christ re-incarnated as a rag tag group of good vibezzzz lads, and it is all of these players who are the issue and the good form of the early season was just a temprary mirage. Who is the club really going to replace, the guy in charge who can't get a tune out of the tools at his disposal, or the entire playing staff?

 

[Starks]

Well that's where you accept less than ideal and just allow them to do that.

You don't give away stupid corners when you're terrible at defending them, you don't leave acres of space in behind for relegation fodder's donkey of a striker to have the freedom of the city in front of your keeper by recklessly chasing a second as though you're trying to overturn an aggregate scoreline...

We're 1-0 up early and they still aren't coming out, pass it around then, they'll either have to eventually or we'll win 1-0 controlling the ball.

That's exactly what we do in our third. And fans moan about it constantly.

Again, and sorry if I'm repeating myself, the issue stems from the lack of technical ability in the final third. We lose the ball far too easily. Whether it's Kulusevski, Johnson, Werner, Maddison, Son... They give up possession too easily and then the counter is on. Every single time.

Son against Newcastle twice. Maddison against Woolwich. Kulusevski against Luton. Bissouma against Wolves..

We played a high line with Pochettino in charge. Sometimes with Vertonghen and Davies on our left side... But you know what? We had Eriksen and Kane in our attack, who would hold possession incredibly well, you had Dembele and Wanyama who'd win it back as soon as it was lost...

Forest could have scored a fair few goals yesterday against City on counter attacks.... They happen. It's football. But what City do well is limit oppnenents those chances to a few a game overall because they're so exceptional at keeping the ball and when losing it, either commiting a foul and getting away with it or just winning it back.

We're not the finished article. Our technical ability in the final third is not even top 5 in the league. And it shows.

 

[nicoclaesen]

Absolutely, that is true.

But would you have been happy if someone told you we'd take 1 point from Wolves (H,A), West Ham (H,A) and Fulham (A)?

It would have been deemed a good season because back then we had no idea what to expect, right now I think it's silly to say anything other than "could have done better". Aspirations have to change with circumstances, the notion that 5th place would have been a good finish is the exact kind of mentality that sees you just switch off, if the players at the point of being within touching distance of 3rd/4th came out and said well y'know 5th is better than we were expecting 8 months ago so this is fine... You'd be fuming.

When Leicester won the league they didn't reach mathematical safety and then think, oh well beach time now then lads, they re-adjusted their aim, and they kept going all season and won the bloody title.

Which on reflection thank heavens they did, else we'd have no doubt been pipped on the final day by Woolwich!

I not happy with 1 point from those games and I do think we could have done better in a lot of games but I still don’t think we could finish any higher than 4th which is still a possibility.
The top 3 this season were just too consistent but I expected inconsistency this season so nothing has really surprised me. What I will say is I’m disappointed in some aspects of how we play and disappointed in individual players but overall I’m taking this for a first season under Ange.
I’m not one of these 4th is our aim because come next season I think we should be going to try win it because we are a year in,better players hopefully to come in,learned from the experiences if this season and the manager having a year to understand the league.
I have no doubts in my mind that we will be much better next season and will challenge to win things. Only time will tell.

 

[Tottenham Sean]

That's exactly what we do in our third. And fans moan about it constantly.

Again, and sorry if I'm repeating myself, the issue stems from the lack of technical ability in the final third. We lose the ball far too easily. Whether it's Kulusevski, Johnson, Werner, Maddison, Son... They give up possession too easily and then the counter is on. Every single time.

Son against Newcastle twice. Maddison against Woolwich. Kulusevski against Luton. Bissouma against Wolves..

We played a high line with Pochettino in charge. Sometimes with Vertonghen and Davies on our left side... But you know what? We had Eriksen and Kane in our attack, who would hold possession incredibly well, you had Dembele and Wanyama who'd win it back as soon as it was lost...

Forest could have scored a fair few goals yesterday against City on counter attacks.... They happen. It's football. But what City do well is limit oppnenents those chances to a few a game overall because they're so exceptional at keeping the ball and when losing it, either commiting a foul and getting away with it or just winning it back.

We're not the finished article. Our technical ability in the final third is not even top 5 in the league. And it shows.

And that point was really noticable yesterday.More so than normal

 

[Herclueless]

I don't necessarily disagree with your point but, firstly, Scum are very good team and we aren't yet. Secondly if Romero puts either of his two gilt edged header chances into the net that first half plays out completely differently - and that's not even counting the penalty Kulu should have had which would have cancelled out their second goal. They scored their two set piece goals - we just missed. It makes HUGE difference.

I'll say it again - it fucking sucks that we lost but the over-reaction by many is absurd. This was a much better performance than the Newcastle game.

The proof in the Ange pudding comes next year and the one after that.

The classic We Tried FC...

Used to be the preserve of those excusing away failures in the transfer market, now it's on the pitch.

We tried, but the ref...

but the low block...

but the PGMOL...

but SkySports...

but Gary Neville...

 

[Shadydan]

I don’t think Vic was pinned at any corner yesterday. My issue with him is he’s just standing worrying about who’s near him. He can be on the move and come and collect corners. He’s 6ft 4 and when he jumps and with those big long arms he’s about ten feet tall so he needs to help his team mates more

He was, I wouldn't say he was pinned but Ben White did enough to get in the way of his run up.

Vic is so weak on corners man, guys needs to work on his core muscles or something because he physically cannot collect the ball through a crowd of players.

 

[Kekerinho]

The point he was clearly making is that there were some positives from that performance. It was by no means a bad one.

It was. Did you enjoy it? If so, good for you, but it doesn’t surprise me one bit. The way I saw it:

1. Woolwich were 3-0 up at HT. In a NLD. Away. That in itself is embarrassing. Don’t remember the last time we conceded 3 at home in a NLD.

2. Woolwich played like shit, they were shattered in the second half, after having played like 4 games in the last 10-12 days. And they managed to win quite comfortably, despite last few minutes of apparent pressure from Spurs.

3. We didn’t create anything noteworthy. Our goal came after a massive gift from Raya and our second goal came after a penalty. I would say our biggest chance was the Romero header that hit the post, which came from a corner.

4. We continue to pass it sideways around the opposition’s box, just like we did in the previous games. No ideas how to break down a defence. Some random floated crosses that were easily handled by Raya. Our team looks like a bunch of random players who were picked together on the day of the game when it comes to creating anything.

5. Finally, defensively we’re still suspect, although I thought we didn’t give them a lot of opportunities in this game. But this remains up to debate in the next few games to see if it was one off or we’re improving a bit here.

Per overall, a limp, embarrassing performance and we should demand more, project manager, no project manager, don’t give a fuck, it’s a derby.

 

[nicoclaesen]

I don't know I feel like conte with the potential back 5 we have now is a completely different animal. Having to constantly play with Doherty dier sanchez and Davies Royal at the back is just fucking stupidity. Now we have an attacking coach and we have a potential solid back 5 but we sold our star attacker. This club just never ceases to shoot itself in the foot.

We will never known. A back 5 with Drag,Cuti and VDV at centre backs and Porro and Udogie playing as wing backs does sound very good. Put three really good midfielders in there and two excellent strikers and it’s a completely different look to what we have now but under Ange we’ll never know because he won’t ever play a back 3 or 5.

 

[Kiro Kompiro]

No, I get what they are saying, I just think it's tremendously blinkered to ignore all of the portents of doom that are on display for all to see, just because "time"...

To have faith that time will see things come together you have to see some fragments that can click into place. Where are these signs presently? That we have lots of possession?

We've all seen this unfold before, we know how Tottenham Hotspur the team respond to adversity, do you see us rising like a resurgent phoenix? Or do you see us spiralling into a well of self-pity?.

Did Hoddle just need more time? Did Ramos? AVB? Mourinho? Nuno? Giving some of them more time could have genuinely ended in a relegation.

I GUARANTEE if Postecoglou is given more time, we will get not relegated. We might not win anything either so that's the limit of my guarantees haha

 

[Kekerinho]

I’m still on the Ange has done alright given the ridiculous board situation

Yeah he has, results wise 5th place is okay, but no way it’s some massive overachieving bullshit these fanboys spout. And this is what pisses me off a lot, at least have some humility and stop saying fucking Postecoglou is some demi-god manager and we couldn’t have hoped for better.

Like you said, Aston Villa have done better with less resources. And in fact, people never compare Postecoglou with Emery, why? Is it because the latter has drastically improved their club and didn’t need time for “system” bullshit? Always to suit their agenda, man. Bbbb but Klopp. Bbbb but Guardiola. Fuck off.

 

[Shadydan]

Was a blatant foul too

But that’s the story of our season

I don't have a problem with teams doing it to us but it pisses me off that we aren't shithousing like them.

We're way too honest, why don't we see our players ruffling up the keeper, why aren't our players winning clever free kicks, slowing the match down etc...

Maddison and Romero are probably the only ones who get how to shithouse on the pitch

 

[cretinousgoat]

It was. Did you enjoy it? If so, good for you, but it doesn’t surprise me one bit. The way I saw it:

1. Woolwich were 3-0 up at HT. In a NLD. Away. That in itself is embarrassing. Don’t remember the last time we conceded 3 at home in a NLD.

2. Woolwich played like shit, they were shattered in the second half, after having played like 4 games in the last 10-12 days. And they managed to win quite comfortably, despite last few minutes of apparent pressure from Spurs.

3. We didn’t create anything noteworthy. Our goal came after a massive gift from Raya and our second goal came after a penalty. I would say our biggest chance was the Romero header that hit the post, which came from a corner.

4. We continue to pass it sideways around the opposition’s box, just like we did in the previous games. No ideas how to break down a defence. Some random floated crosses that were easily handled by Raya. Our team looks like a bunch of random players who were picked together on the day of the game when it comes to creating anything.

5. Finally, defensively we’re still suspect, although I thought we didn’t give them a lot of opportunities in this game. But this remains up to debate in the next few games to see if it was one off or we’re improving a bit here.

Per overall, a limp, embarrassing performance and we should demand more, project manager, no project manager, don’t give a fuck, it’s a derby.

Thanks for proving your inability to read and comprehend.

You're someone who, like a few others I've popped on permanent ignore this morning, I have no interest in engaging with any further.

Just know this. You're not a spurs fan. You're a Putin lover and you don't belong on this forum. You haven't got a scooby doo what you're talking about, and I don't give a fuck what you have to say. I have ZERO respect for you or the minority of "fans" who think like you.

You're welcome. Don't bother wasting your time replying - I promise you I won't be reading any more of your stupid, pointless obnoxious posts.

NEVER quote me again.

Nobody on this forum likes you so stop humiliating yourself and shut your fucking noise, you deluded bottle. Consider yourself ended.

 

[LeddersKingers]

Simple. Unless he can deploy a style that has us solid out of possession and better equip to deal with transitions, he will struggle to break out of the 7th-4th range in the table.

You would need serious quality players to brute force your way to a higher placed finish playing pure attacking football, and thinking you can play so good you break the opposition to the point you dont need to worry so much about the ugly side of the game. Im talking Mbappe and Vini Jr type players.

This isnt Celtic were every opponent but one is cannon fodder. He either adapts and learns, or be becomes an Australian version of Harry Redknapp - someone who embraces simplicity and is more about personal connections and 'having a go son'. Nothing wrong with Harry's time as manager, but he was never going to finish higher than 4th.

Maybe a bit more self-awareness too. Stop talking about challenging for the league whilst refusing to see the value in working on set pieces & having a plan B or variance in tactics. Because to me, that comes across as someone bragging they will blitz the test without studying, then the results come in and you only just passed..........whats going on?