Ange Postecoglou

[Jenny Talia]

Last week we were really good, yesterday we weren't

View: https://twitter.com/TacticsJournal/status/1779468118735102038

That is what people mean with do Plan A better I think.
City move the ball with one touch as often as two, and it is never three (unless Grealish has the ball).

 

[Matt1882]

When was the last time you enjoyed football?

That's not a dig, I'm wondering myself. The feeling of following a hopeless club is draining. I'll be back next season but really the initial Conte hype felt like the club might turn the corner then they did the exact same shit they always do in the transfer market and Conte went sour from the start.

2nd half of Conte's first season was immense.
Anyone who says that was boring is nothing more than a bias prick who can't cope with Conte being ex-chelsea.

Before that, Poch 15/16 and 16/17 I thought we were the beat team to watch by a county mile. Before and after though, not so much. Even the CL run papered over cracks.

Before that Redknapp (most not all)

Before that Jol.

No real need to keep going back.

We don't have to be challenging for a title for me to enjoy it. But there's 2 things I don't like to see.

Us passing around like clueless idiots with no idea what to do with it and..

Getting a fucking hiding from anyone but the best teams in the league.

Newcastle and Fulham are not the best teams in the league.
Fans should be scared as, imo, both those teams hasve set a template for everyone to follow now. The mythical first ten are a distant memory. Teams know what we are they know who we are and they know how to play against us.

 

[Airfixx]

Fucking hell wouldn't go that far lol but essentially you're right I've always said that the collective mindset of our fans is pretty pathetic, spineless I'd probably call it when the going gets tough.

The "we're so patient" stuff is bollocks too.......

Long-suffering; sure, but seeing the constantly bitching, misery merchants on here patting themselves on the back claiming that they've been "patient" throughout is absolute bullshit.

 

[Richard Arlison]

2nd half of Conte's first season was immense.
Anyone who says that was boring is nothing more than a bias prick who can't cope with Conte being ex-chelsea.

Before that, Poch 15/16 and 16/17 I thought we were the beat team to watch by a county mile. Before and after though, not so much. Even the CL run papered over cracks.

Before that Redknapp (most not all)

Before that Jol.

No real need to keep going back.

We don't have to be challenging for a title for me to enjoy it. But there's 2 things I don't like to see.

Us passing around like clueless idiots with no idea what to do with it and..

Getting a fucking hiding from anyone but the best teams in the league.

Newcastle and Fulham are not the best teams in the league.
Fans should be scared as, imo, both those teams hasve set a template for everyone to follow now. The mythical first ten are a distant memory. Teams know what we are they know who we are and they know how to play against us.

10 games of Conte
10 games of Ange

 

[Matt1882]

Last week we were really good, yesterday we weren't

That is what people mean with do Plan A better I think.
City move the ball with one touch as often as two, and it is never three (unless Grealish has the ball).

No we weren't.
We were adequate.

 

[Matt1882]

10 games of Conte
10 games of Ange

What does this mean?
I've made it abundantly clear those 10 games have been over rated.

 

[Doom Funk]

Fucking hell wouldn't go that far lol but essentially you're right I've always said that the collective mindset of our fans is pretty pathetic, spineless I'd probably call it when the going gets tough.

You get blue like everyone
But Levy and uncle Joe
Can make your troubles go away
Blow away, there they go...
Cheer up, Shady
Give me a smile
What happened to the smile I used to know
Don't you know your grin has always
Been my sunshine;
Let that sunshine show...
Come on, shady
No need to frown
Deep down you know the world is still your toy
When the days get heavy
Never pitter patter
Up and at'em boy
Some day, sweet as a song
Shady's lucky day will come along
Till that day
You've got to stay in strong Shady
Up on top is right where you belong
Look up, Shady
You'll see a star
Just follow it and keep your dreams in view
Pretty soon the sky is going to clear up
Shady,
Cheer up Shady, do
Cheer up Shady
Just be glad you're you.

 

[Deuterz]

Last week we were really good, yesterday we weren't

Our standards have reached rock bottom if last week is considered "really good".

 

[Shadydan]

Last week we were really good, yesterday we weren't

That is what people mean with do Plan A better I think.
City move the ball with one touch as often as two, and it is never three (unless Grealish has the ball).

Dynamic wingers will fix it, the ball will go out to them quicker and they will provide a legit threat as opposed to fucking passing it back and not showing for the ball.

 

[dustybin]

He’s just gonna double down on Plan A isn’t he? Ange has demonstrated and publicly said, it’s his way or no way at all.

Completely naive. From Wolves away (1-0 up after 90mins) this pig headedness has cost us points. I don’t expect him to publicly state that Spurs have tweaked the style but I expect to see it on the pitch.

Don’t we have analysts and assistant coaches? Cos it’s blatantly obvious that opposition coaches/managers are working us out, setting out a game plan and then executing that plan to their advantage - see Fulham, West Ham and Newcastle as recent examples (all done slightly differently and all exploiting slightly different areas of weakness).

Feel good factor largely evaporated on a match day, we all gather in the bars beforehand wondering how we’ll concede today (not if we will concede). Favourite - the ball in behind the vacant left back position.

I don’t think it’s naive. It’s building a mentality. we won’t sit back, we’ll try and be the dominant team. Even if we’re not good enough to be every week atm. If you start asking the players to defend leads, like the Wolves game, surrender territory, they’ll just go to that comfort blanket in the future. Short term pain.

 

[Deuterz]

I don’t think it’s naive. It’s building a mentality. we won’t sit back, we’ll try and be the dominant team. Even if we’re not good enough to be every week atm. If you start asking the players to defend leads, like the Wolves game, surrender territory, they’ll just go to that comfort blanket in the future. Short term pain.

I'm not convinced by Ange's tactical versatility though tbh. Think he's a good coach and a good start on the rebuild to a more 'progressive' team but I wouldn't be surprised if he builds the platform and then in 2-3 seasons we step up to a better manager with a similar style.

 

[Yiddy]

If he gets the 1 point from 12 I'm expecting from this 4 game spell then I think there'll have to be serious questions answered about his style and is it transferable to this level with our club. I don't think he'll ever have a much better squad to work with than what he has now due to the owners. Ultimately I think it'll come down to his intelligence and adaptability to get more out of this squad or it will end as it usually does imo.

 

[Richard Arlison]

What does this mean?
I've made it abundantly clear those 10 games have been over rated.

And I’m making it abundantly clear that you are overrating the first 10 games of Conte

 

[skywalker68]

If he gets the 1 point from 12 I'm expecting from this 4 game spell then I think there'll have to be serious questions answered about his style and is it transferable to this level with our club. I don't think he'll ever have a much better squad to work with than what he has now due to the owners. Ultimately I think it'll come down to his intelligence and adaptability to get more out of this squad or it will end as it usually does imo.

I don't think we can expect much mate, players look short on confidence and lacking any heart or desire.
I'm expecting to lose to all of them during that period, can't see Ange changing his style or system, it's all or nothing with him but the team cannot defend for shit.
I'm not interested in listening to his or the players comments because, they are empty and meaningless, seeing as we have heard it dozens of times before.

 

[bus-conductor]

When was the last time you enjoyed football?

That's not a dig, I'm wondering myself. The feeling of following a hopeless club is draining. I'll be back next season but really the initial Conte hype felt like the club might turn the corner then they did the exact same shit they always do in the transfer market and Conte went sour from the start.

Im definitely not a happy clapper, but I’m enjoying this season a lot. I’m enjoying it more than some of the Poch seasons (bar 15-17 seasons).

I’ve got criticisms of Ange, I don’t think he’s the messiah, not sure his arse can cash all the cheques his mouth writes, but at least we are now a side that wants the ball and wants to attack, instead of one that treats the ball like a hot fucking potato and spends 70% of the game parked in its own box, and doing it badly.

We are a few months into a new regime, new recruitment, new proactive coach with a bunch of new players. I’m actually fucking impressed how quickly Ange turned us into a completely different tactical animal (albeit one with flaws) and I’m interested to see where it goes.

 

[Henry Hotspur]

I don’t think it’s naive. It’s building a mentality. we won’t sit back, we’ll try and be the dominant team. Even if we’re not good enough to be every week atm. If you start asking the players to defend leads, like the Wolves game, surrender territory, they’ll just go to that comfort blanket in the future. Short term pain.

It’s completely naive. He worked for the richest club in Scotland and won a two horse race. It’s naive to think he could come to the PL and play his preferred style without compromise and/or tweaks.

As for Wolves away. The game plays out at a satisfactory score of 1-0 to us after 90mins . A mediocre display nevertheless but after 1-4 V Chelsea that week and with injuries/suspensions galore, any coach worth his salt (inc Pep and Klopp), drops into a 5 at the back, leaves one up front and plays into the channels for 3pts. Ange doesn’t and that IS naive

 

[Richard Arlison]

Im definitely not a happy clapper, but I’m enjoying this season a lot. I’m enjoying it more than some of the Poch seasons (bar 15-17 seasons).

I’ve got criticisms of Ange, I don’t think he’s the messiah, not sure his arse can cash all the cheques his mouth writes, but at least we are now a side that wants the ball and wants to attack, instead of one that treats the ball like a hot fucking potato and spends 70% of the game parked in its own box, and doing it badly.

We are a few months into a new regime, new recruitment, new proactive coach with a bunch of new players. I’m actually fucking impressed how quickly Ange turned us into a completely different tactical animal (albeit one with flaws) and I’m interested to see where it goes.

Great post and I’m struggling to understand why people are so extreme on this because this position seems obvious to me

 

[Airfixx]

It’s completely naive. He worked for the richest club in Scotland and won a two horse race. It’s naive to think he could come to the PL and play his preferred style without compromise and/or tweaks.

As for Wolves away. The game plays out at a satisfactory score of 1-0 to us after 90mins . A mediocre display nevertheless but after 1-4 V Chelsea that week and with injuries/suspensions galore, any coach worth his salt (inc Pep and Klopp), drops into a 5 at the back, leaves one up front and plays into the channels for 3pts. Ange doesn’t and that IS naive

Yes; resources are relative to those around you.

Celtic and the level of the SPL is a red herring for both sides of the argument.

I said before a ball was kicked this season; I'm far more encouraged by the way he propelled his team up the league to win titles at his other clubs.... His other teams weren't the dominant alpha team in their leagues when he took over.

 

[Richard Arlison]

So Klopp took Liverpool backwards recently?

 

[Zest]

The worrying thing for me is that I don’t think I’ve seen any improvement in any area of our game since the first few games of the season. You would expect to see improvement the longer the season goes on as the players get used to the system & the way Ange wants them to play but I just haven’t seen any improvement in our play. If anything, we appear to have gone backwards

Think we can map the fall back to the Winter break.

Before that we had all sorts of injuries but fought through, appeared to be coming out the other side at that moment.

Ange gave them breaks with their families, for me this was a huge mistake. Those days they likely ate treats and didn’t train well, whereas Woolwich for example warm weather trained and came back full force. We have looked laboured and lacking reserves to fuel intensity ever since.

Those warm weather breaks, give the team time together, on a meticulously regulated meal plan and timings, training schedules, huge Vitamin D etcetera.

Cant help but think back to Burnley Feb 2019 under Poch, where we had a 2 week break before and came back looking like pensioners for most of the rest of the season, in his case (Poch) he intensity trained them when they needed gentle training and sun, but thereafter we were appalling every first half, Poch would rally them at half time and second half we often looked better (it was very similar to now).

Ange has no experience of the intensity load the Prem puts players under, Celtic hardly has the same demand as they can coast 50% of most games.