Ange Postecoglou

[Richard Arlison]

Klopp got patience because it was clear what he was trying to do and the board bought into his vision. He needed good players to implement his ideas and he got them, taking several years to build his team. People I know who support Liverpool and actually watch the games (not random people on TFC, btw) were all saying - from an early stage - he would come good and that things improved as the season went on.

We need to give Ange patience, sure, but I definitely see the responses and discussion as being a bit more polarised, it's not a like for like case. I have fingers firmly crossed he will come good but he needs to wise up on the defensive side of things.

Klopp immediately saw the big weaknesses were CB and GK. He got Van Dijk and Alisson. I actually think we have excellent personnel in those positions, it's other areas we need to beef up in the TW.

The Athletic wrote a massive story on Klopp's start to life and how up and down they were. I do think he managed to get the board to buy in and that's massive. If Ange gets buy in from the board and a few years to put them in place then let's see where we are then.

If not we know where the road ends and it's the same groundhog day shit of new coach comes in, everyone excited, things get tough and we quit. Maybe finish 4th, maybe don't. Ticket prices go up. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Spot on. Its why I'm very worried by the "we just need to do the same thing better BS He's been punting. It's obvious we are actually getting worse at what we do. I think he needs to bring in an experienced number two if he can't see the issues you have. It's no longer working it's hubris to pretend otherwise. The system we are playing can be exploited by any side with legs in the forward position, and a foot in midfield. First time I've had real doubts

How do you know he can't see the issues?

Every system can be exploited.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Our underlying stats are a bit rubbish really. xG differential is worse than last season, much worse than Conte's first season. When teams have poor underlying stats they tend to regress and be found out, something that has happened to us before and has been coming for a while.

Tactically we are naive. And no, not in the sense that we have a high line or commit numbers, that is fine and most top sides do it. But our inverted wing-backs pushing up high and leaving huge gaps is a bit stinky currently, and offensively we are predictable. Top teams don't just attack in one way anymore and top coaches DO value defensive solidity.

Our press is super disorganised lately as well, leaving gaps everywhere. Structure just seems to not be there, you can't expect weekly wins in this league with an attacking attitude and willingness to run, teams are too good for it. Gordon & Isak FEASTED today, the elite coaches prepare for opposition threats and will make changes, fucking Pep v Arteta was a CB face off ffs.

xG differential counted over a very small sample size that includes a section of the season with the worst injury crisis in years, key suspensions and Son going off to Asiacup.

Those aren't excuses but let's see what the differential is in the last month since we have had a back 4 and most of our players back.

When has the inverted FBs actually cost us anything? The goal against Forest when Udogie was in position but lost concentration. That wasn't the system. Today was mistakes against the press. None of the goals came from the inverted FBs.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Keep an eye on bournemouth coach. Doing a great job there. Possible manager in a few years.

Yeah everyone said the same about De Zerbi and look at Brighton now...

Iraola is an interesting coach but there is always an interesting coach out there. They aren't magicians that can fix this cliub. That doesn't exist.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Klopp got patience because it was clear what he was trying to do and the board bought into his vision. He needed good players to implement his ideas and he got them, taking several years to build his team. People I know who support Liverpool and actually watch the games (not random people on TFC, btw) were all saying - from an early stage - he would come good and that things improved as the season went on.

We need to give Ange patience, sure, but I definitely see the responses and discussion as being a bit more polarised, it's not a like for like case. I have fingers firmly crossed he will come good but he needs to wise up on the defensive side of things.

Klopp immediately saw the big weaknesses were CB and GK. He got Van Dijk and Alisson. I actually think we have excellent personnel in those positions, it's other areas we need to beef up in the TW.

He needs to drop inverting both fullbacks find a player that can head the ball, and accept the system as its stands is too easy to exploit.

 

[SpursUpNorth]

Klopp got patience because it was clear what he was trying to do and the board bought into his vision. He needed good players to implement his ideas and he got them, taking several years to build his team. People I know who support Liverpool and actually watch the games (not random people on TFC, btw) were all saying - from an early stage - he would come good and that things improved as the season went on.

We need to give Ange patience, sure, but I definitely see the responses and discussion as being a bit more polarised, it's not a like for like case. I have fingers firmly crossed he will come good but he needs to wise up on the defensive side of things.

Klopp immediately saw the big weaknesses were CB and GK. He got Van Dijk and Alisson. I actually think we have excellent personnel in those positions, it's other areas we need to beef up in the TW.

Of course he need to improve from this, and the last few games. Uanacceptable display today, and he need to take a fair share of the blame for that.

The madness though, is when people om here is calling for his head now!

His first season with us has been a mixed bowl, but he has brought us some good football and seems to have created a good atmosphere, in what was a toxic environnement. If we end top 5, which still seems very likely, it will be a good achievement for now.

He should and will have more time.

 

[Richard Arlison]

He needs to drop inverting both fullbacks find a player that can head the ball, and accept the system as its stands is too easy to exploit.

And after he makes those changes there will be something else about the system that can be exploited.

there is always something easy to exploit about any system.

 

[HampshireSpur]

The Athletic wrote a massive story on Klopp's start to life and how up and down they were. I do think he managed to get the board to buy in and that's massive. If Ange gets buy in from the board and a few years to put them in place then let's see where we are then.

If not we know where the road ends and it's the same groundhog day shit of new coach comes in, everyone excited, things get tough and we quit. Maybe finish 4th, maybe don't. Ticket prices go up. Rinse and repeat.

You've put your finger on my primary concern here about our board.

The other is the performances of late - not just up and down in terms of the results but wild, reckless, indisciplined stuff. Like one poster pointed out we are being caught out by very basic stuff.

 

[Richard Arlison]

You've put your finger on my primary concern here about our board.

The other is the performances of late - not just up and down in terms of the results but wild, reckless, indisciplined stuff. Like one poster pointed out we are being caught out by very basic stuff.

What, wild, reckless indisciplined stuff?

We played shit.

As for the board, we know they can't be trusted. What worries me is the fans supporting that behaviour and blaming another manager early.

We all know our board loves to leak stuff about players being unhappy and training being poor when they want to shift the blame.

 

[HampshireSpur]

What, wild, reckless indisciplined stuff?

The keystone cops defending.

 

[StripiestPilot]

Yeah everyone said the same about De Zerbi and look at Brighton now...

Iraola is an interesting coach but there is always an interesting coach out there. They aren't magicians that can fix this cliub. That doesn't exist.

Brighton have had horrendous injuries and a more demanding fixture schedule than us, if you’re going to go easy on Ange then you should go ease on De Zerbi too.

 

[HampshireSpur]

Brighton have had horrendous injuries and a more demanding fixture schedule than us, if you’re going to go easy on Ange then you should go ease on De Zerbi too.

One thing's for sure. We need to tighten up and compete or the next few matches are going to be painful...

 

[Richard Arlison]

The keystone cops defending.

Not reckless though is it. Porro made a mistake, VDV fell over.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Brighton have had horrendous injuries and a more demanding fixture schedule than us, if you’re going to go easy on Ange then you should go ease on De Zerbi too.

Ok sure, so what's the difference between pining for De Zerbi or Iraola etc and just sticking with Ange?

 

[HampshireSpur]

Not reckless though is it. Porro made a mistake, VDV fell over.

We play a very adventurous, high risk, high line. Caught out with long balls over the top. System as well as individual mistakes.

 

[Kane's left]

We are inconsistent

Is the understatement of the century...

 

[Richard Arlison]

We play a very adventurous, high risk, high line. Caught out with long balls over the top. System as well as individual mistakes.

Every system has risks.

We played deep block last year and the risk was you give teams too much of the ball and they control the game.

It was a mistake by VDV to let Isak get in behind him and whoever wasn't pressuring the ball.The players were shit so the system got exploited. When your players play shit, it makes no difference what system you use.

 

[Incomplete_usernam]

Let's just hope we don't get utterly pasted and perform like we did today in the next three games,; we have to see something, some fight, even if we manage two draws and a win or just two draws and a loss at this point.

We cannot afford to lose all three because I feel the fallout from that would be too much for him to survive going into the end of the season.

My thoughts are that, like I said earlier, unless he learns to adapt and be a bit more tactically aware it's only going to end in disaster.

I don't think he will change though because he seems like a stubborn man (bordering on too arrogant at times considering his CV) and whilst I will always celebrate self belief and applaud confidence; in this league you have to walk the walk, not just talk the talk, which up until December, he was; now? Not so much.

And this is the fundamental issue, we can buy as many players as we want and throw funds at it but the reality is, if he continues to be naive in how he approaches games tactically and also with how he views analytics and training (dismissive "ah we don't need all that mate" kind of attitude etc) then no amount of players being purchased will fix the problem.

If he keeps doing what he is doing it is suicide over the course of an entire season because imo, teams have figured it out, occasionally we may get the rub and win because we have a front foot system but you can't just play like that every game, it does not work, even Pep and Klopp don't play full throttle all the time.


Ange is giving me Australian Harry Redknapp "run about a bit" vibes and Harry was obviously a talented manager as well but he has the same sort of limitations because of his old school mentality.

I want Ange to turn it around and be sat here in six months watching this in the rearview mirror as little more than a speedbump on the road to success but my gut is telling me that won't be the case but who knows, let's just hope things work out for us because another manager and rebuild would be devastating tbh.

 

[John Thomas]

I want Ange to turn it around and be sat here in six months watching this in the rearview mirror as little more than a speedbump on the road to success but my gut is telling me that won't be the case but who knows, let's just hope things work out for us because another manager and rebuild would be devastating tbh

I have a gut feeling Ange won't be here next season. There's something going on behind the scenes, his players look disinterested and lacking motivation and I've never seen him looking more dull or disinterested himself than he did in his post match interviews today.


Incidentally, our alarming drop off in form pretty much coincided with this stand off which many on here brushed aside at the time.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1FqJIdB5UZs

 

[Kekerinho]

I’m not the one making the claim…

Objective fact: Klopp took 3 seasons to win things.

People can make up random context about why Klopp got 3 years but it doesn’t change the reality that he got the patience

Mate no one is expecting Postecoglou to win things now lol. I’m pretty sure we all want to see progress and things moving in the right direction, good football and a good position in the table. So far he’s achieved only the latter.