Ange Postecoglou

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John Thomas said:
But the last 6 months has been the crappiest of all.
Crap football AND Crap results .
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Disagree John - it has been very tough to watch sure, but we are at least trying to get our toe on the ball, attack teams and play with everyone up the pitch which is immediately an improvement on them other two cunts IMO of course.

Even the wins with Conte and Mourinho were shite watches for the most part and we all know what happened when they couldn't sustain this ultra defensive football.
Those two 'World class' managers presided over some embarrassing defeats to far worse teams than the ones we have recently been hammered by.

I want to see him adapt of course which he doesnt seem to want to do but we lack the players to play this attacking football atm - I want to see the squad improved properly, Ange given some time with them and see what happens. Absolutely zero point in sacking him now and getting someone else in to essentially do the same job - weed out players who aren't good enough in a front foot team and try to progress as an attacking side again.
I would take this above the other two any old day of the week mate.
 
Hulk said:
Disagree John - it has been very tough to watch sure, but we are at least trying to get our toe on the ball, attack teams and play with everyone up the pitch which is immediately an improvement on them other two cunts IMO of course.

Even the wins with Conte and Mourinho were shite watches for the most part and we all know what happened when they couldn't sustain this ultra defensive football.
Those two 'World class' managers presided over some embarrassing defeats to far worse teams than the ones we have recently been hammered by.

I want to see him adapt of course which he doesnt seem to want to do but we lack the players to play this attacking football atm - I want to see the squad improved properly, Ange given some time with them and see what happens. Absolutely zero point in sacking him now and getting someone else in to essentially do the same job - weed out players who aren't good enough in a front foot team and try to progress as an attacking side again.
I would take this above the other two any old day of the week mate.
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Fair post but I disagree

I would kill to have a fully committed and backed Conte back rather than this loser!
 
LeeMcl said:
Had a long drive today and way too much thinking about Spurs, which is odd given I could have invested the time thinking of boobs and Star Wars….anyway,

First thought. Where is the press briefing staring Ange is backed ? Where is the club messaging getting out to the likes of Gold that Ange has 100% backing ? Remember when Jose went all funny and started the Mr Levy stuff, and then Conte said “no one ever speaks”. A message from one of the suits that firmly said “Ange stays” would silence the narrative at least.

Second thought, why has no youth player come through under Ange ? Is it injury, is it timing or is it something else? Donnelly nearly, Moore nearly. But that’s about it. Another season when the academy has been almost worthless, despite the injuries.

Third. Why did he chuck Liverpool away with a dreadful set up ? Was that intentional. In three years Royle has not proved capable of being a left back / wing back or inverted left back. But he got picked there against Salah. Thats not chance, is it ? VDV inverted on the left with Dragusin surely makes more sense than Royle, and then he pulls Royle for Skipp…and so on and so forth, but even Son central and Kulusevski positioned on the right kills the team, there has never once been any evidence that these players are good enough in that set up. It’s really odd, at the time it was odd. With hindsight it’s even worse. Gil came on for what reason ? How many times do we need to see this guy given 5 minutes of nothing ? Back to point 2, surely someone from the academy is worth 5 minutes ahead of George Harrison ?

Forth point. What exactly does Lo Celso need to do to start a game ? Now I suspect he is no answer, but the club actually indicated they convinced him to stay. And ok he’s had injuries, but surely if Maddison doesn’t play then Lo Celso should ? Again, it’s bloody odd.

The whole season has been a puzzle really. And there is no evidence anything has really changed.
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100%! Gio defo when he comes he brings a bit of spark as his a busy player. Pops up all over the place, likes to get on the ball and make quick passes. Also gets stuck in and has a great slide tackle. Everything kulu doesn’t do or have yet Ange will let Kulu piss away for 90 mins either in midfield or wide doing nothing. Get rid of him ahead of gio who has far more technical ability and vision.
On the youth said nuff times surely they deserve a go! They cannot be worse than royal , kulu , BJ, Werner, bent, etc. I just watched vid on Moore and he looks great. Just unleash him see what he can do and give him some experience.
 
Bazali said:
Fair post but I disagree

I would kill to have a fully committed and backed Conte back rather than this loser!
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Fair enough Baz but we are not a club that were ever going to back Conte to the degree that he always needs to win titles - possibly an even worse appointment all things considered than Mourinho even considering our club and the ways its ran.
Hes always a 2-3 year max manager even when successful too so was never going to work imo.
 
Hulk said:
Disagree John - it has been very tough to watch sure, but we are at least trying to get our toe on the ball, attack teams and play with everyone up the pitch which is immediately an improvement on them other two cunts IMO of course.

Even the wins with Conte and Mourinho were shite watches for the most part and we all know what happened when they couldn't sustain this ultra defensive football.
Those two 'World class' managers presided over some embarrassing defeats to far worse teams than the ones we have recently been hammered by.

I want to see him adapt of course which he doesnt seem to want to do but we lack the players to play this attacking football atm - I want to see the squad improved properly, Ange given some time with them and see what happens. Absolutely zero point in sacking him now and getting someone else in to essentially do the same job - weed out players who aren't good enough in a front foot team and try to progress as an attacking side again.
I would take this above the other two any old day of the week mate.
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Fair play. That's a good response and I respect your opinion and admire your optimism. Where we probably differ is our interpretation of good football.
To me, good football is football that wins you the game. There's no such thing as good football that loses the game. Pretty football maybe, but not good football.

With regards to Conte and Mourinho. I don't think the fans of their other clubs complained about the football when they were winning trophies. And neither would we. But, of course Levy was never gonna give them the tools or keep any promises made when he appointed them.

So here we are. A fanbase with heniously lowered expectations and a manager with a bizarrely lenient fanbase given the horrendous run of form since November.

But hey. It's great to be able to debate with someone with an opposite viewpoint without the nastiness and bitterness.

After all. We both want the same thing at the end of the day. We're on the same side

:adesalute:
 
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John Thomas said:
Fair play. That's a good response and I respect your opinion and admire your optimism. Where we probably differ is our interpretation of good football.
To me, good football is football that wins you the game. There's no such thing as good football that loses the game. Pretty football maybe, but not good football.

With regards to Conte and Mourinho. I don't think the fans of their other clubs complained about the football when they were winning trophies. And neither would we. But, of course Levy was never gonna give them the tools or keep any promises made when he appointed them.

So here we are. A fanbase with heniously lowered expectations and a manager with a bizarrely lenient fanbase given the horrendous run of form since November.

But hey. It's great to be able to debate with someone with an opposite viewpoint without the nastiness and bitterness.

After all. We both want the same thing at the end of the day

:adesalute:
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Absolutely it is John and I understand your points too. Tbh when we appointed both of them despite despising them I thought at least we may get two years of being competitive, weed out loser players and maybe win a pot but like you say if they aren't given the tools that made them successful in the past they were always doomed to fail and we would always be left in a worse state long term when they left which they have done at numerous clubs in their careers.

The expectations thing is def a factor here too for both sides of the argument - traditionally an attacking team with flair that went deep in cups but never sustained league challenges very often even before enic and Levy I totally get employing 'winner' managers like them two but with Levy it was desperation - he admitted as much on that Nihal publicity stunt with Ange and Son which was of course play acting to the fans.
I am optimistic about playing the right way and moving forward with that in mind long term but we all know either way we are fucked with the ownership and they are never going to leave so if the choice is prettier football and win fuck all or 10 men back counter and win fuck all I go with the former every time;)
 
Hulk said:
Fair enough Baz but we are not a club that were ever going to back Conte to the degree that he always needs to win titles - possibly an even worse appointment all things considered than Mourinho even considering our club and the ways its ran.
Hes always a 2-3 year max manager even when successful too so was never going to work imo.
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Hulk said:
Fair enough Baz but we are not a club that were ever going to back Conte to the degree that he always needs to win titles - possibly an even worse appointment all things considered than Mourinho even considering our club and the ways its ran.
Hes always a 2-3 year max manager even when successful too so was never going to work imo.
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2-3 years of success would do me mate!
 
Bill Madrid said:
I'd bet Spain's national debt that you were howling for exactly this to happen a year ago.
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A year ago when we had Conte and played in a low block 3-4-3, of course.

But when circumstances change so do the facts. In the summer we adjusted our system to a back four and a high line, which needs rapid CBs to function.

We then sold one of our only two quick centre backs after the window had shut. Anyone who couldn't predict what would happen next is an utter moron, and I include our manager in that category.
 
daveyboy88 said:
the only reason im not worried about that is because if we have a terrible first 10 games i think a manager coming in with this squad would easily survive...
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Yes, any new manager would have a good and balanced squad, and credit has to go to Paratici and Lange for that.

What does concern me is that in October the market for available managers will be thin. We got lucky once with Redknapp, it won't happen again. I'm not sure the likes of Romero would put up with another Sherwood/Mason type shitshow. Or another lurch back towards a pragmatist like Conte or Mou having built a squad for possession-based football.

I also worry about giving Ange the summer window. We made that mistake with Poch after he'd already mentally checked out and those purchases set the club back 5 years.

Brennan has already proved to be an expensive Ange-driven mistake. I don't want to give him 150m only to fill out the squad with Gallaghers and Onanas.
 
Klaus said:
Yes, any new manager would have a good and balanced squad, and credit has to go to Paratici and Lange for that.

What does concern me is that in October the market for available managers will be thin. We got lucky once with Redknapp, it won't happen again. I'm not sure the likes of Romero would put up with another Sherwood/Mason type shitshow. Or another lurch back towards a pragmatist like Conte or Mou having built a squad for possession-based football.

I also worry about giving Ange the summer window. We made that mistake with Poch after he'd already mentally checked out and those purchases set the club back 5 years.

Brennan has already proved to be an expensive Ange-driven mistake. I don't want to give him 150m only to fill out the squad with Gallaghers and Onanas.
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yea its a tough one on what to do then aint it. this is why you have to get things right, we will be set back if romero wants to get away.

we find ourselves in a weird situation. a new frontline and a competent manager and i dont think we look bad at all! but at the same time we could be setback years if this is allowed to fester.
 
Hulk said:
I have my doubts and the last few months (especially the last 5 games) have been pretty galling but fuck me - some of the chat from our fans is mental, we can't be sacking the guy now and changing Manager AGAIN within one season.
Absolutely up for him playing another season with hopefully better tools on the pitch - it really does come down to who we recruit and sell this summer IMO.
Hes trying to completely change the football after the everyone defend and counter shite we have been subjected to now for years and its only been a 30 something games - new players, young squad and some declining or unsuitable players who need to go.

Conte and Mourinho knew what they were doing? Two negative, incendiary chequebook cunts who should never have been at Spurs. Short memories of how crap it has been the last 4 years lads.
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Post of the year for me so far 👏
 
Klaus said:
Yes, but some teams are obviously more transitional and counter attacking than others. Surely you wouldn't deny that?
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Explain what counter-pressing intends to do?

Many teams regardless of playing style employ such a tactic to force turnovers and cause transitional play. Liverpool under Kloop are the archetype of this approach, relentlessly pressing opponents high up the pitch and swiftly transitioning from defense to attack.

To just assume possession-based teams pick the ball up and walk it into the opposition's net is nonsensical.

I will concede that we do need 1-2 1v1 specialists so that we can balance out with the ball-carrying of Johnson, Kulu, Werner et al.

Last thing on Johnson being an ineffective choice for Ange's system:

View: https://x.com/DataMB_/status/1749466520189628810
 
Klaus said:
Yes, any new manager would have a good and balanced squad, and credit has to go to Paratici and Lange for that.

What does concern me is that in October the market for available managers will be thin. We got lucky once with Redknapp, it won't happen again. I'm not sure the likes of Romero would put up with another Sherwood/Mason type shitshow. Or another lurch back towards a pragmatist like Conte or Mou having built a squad for possession-based football.

I also worry about giving Ange the summer window. We made that mistake with Poch after he'd already mentally checked out and those purchases set the club back 5 years.

Brennan has already proved to be an expensive Ange-driven mistake. I don't want to give him 150m only to fill out the squad with Gallaghers and Onanas.
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You either think he can be the guy or you don't IMO. If we are worried about what is going to be available in October then we are playing the wrong game. You have to let a manager go through the growing pains. We would have fired Arteta 2 years ago when they started 0-3 and then wonder why we are stuck on the same cycle. I don't know if Ange is the guy or not. I think he can be, but people who act like they know he isn't are dumb. He hasn't gone through anything that EVERY top manager hasn't gone through. This is part of the process. It's mind-boggling how incapable some fans are of actually going through the pains. EVERY single fan would have deemed 5th as a success in the preseason. I'm as disappointed in the results and recent performances as any, but you can't skip this part. We have to give him 2 full seasons to work through this or we will never have success.
 
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