West Ham v Tottenham Hotspur | Premier League | Tues 2nd April | 8:15pm

[Bazali]

I remember when playing at Upton park, you'd have to have your wits about you. Even their fans these days are embarrassing. It's like being at a boy band concert. Loads of little chavvy kids bouncing up and down like demented kangaroos and giving a wanker sign.
I have never seen a club and their fans fall so far.

Utterly embarrassing.

And there was a decent chippy near the ‘Queens’ boozer!

 

[Billy Bob mate]

It's no less boring.
Maybe it's a little less uncomfortable not playing on the edge of our own area for 90 minutes. But I was out of my seat so much more often when we won the ball in that area and rapidly passed through teams and generally scored from it.

Now all we do is fuck around in midfield doing absolutely nothing of interest.

Nah. It's frustrating, not boring. And is a much better watch than under some previous managers.

I'm not saying it's perfect. Of course we need to improve but at least I want to watch the games now. I've said it before - last couple of seasons quite often I'd rather have gone shopping than watch games.

 

[BernardMatthews]

No,

It is boring.

And you will get there too, eventually.


I actually prefer quick, counter attacking football to this fucking shite.
Give me Jolball or Harryball.

Who are your favourite teams to watch when they play Spurs? ST holder for how many years now?

Who stands out as the best manager/coach in your opinion?

I’ve seen people on here say they hate Peps football while they love Conte or Jose type.

Just wondering if anyone is playing football like Harry or Jol these days?

 

[Matt1882]

Nah. It's frustrating, not boring. And is a much better watch than under some previous managers.

I'm not saying it's perfect. Of course we need to improve but at least I want to watch the games now. I've said it before - last couple of seasons quite often I'd rather have gone shopping than watch games.

Frustrating is playing against a keeper who has a worldie of a game.
Frustrating is having a bent ref/VAR disallowing good goals or giving things to the opposition.
There's nothing frustrating about a team who compresses 21 players into the opposition half and then look totally fucking baffled why there is no space to pass into and score from.
I've never been a fan of that. I didn't want AVB because that's what he did. I didn't want Poch at first because that was his style (and yes. his first and last year were blighted by boring games and poor results)

I want some one who can mix it up, see when one tactic isn't working and change it. That's what winners do.

 

[Bazali]

We were just blunt, Not terrible. just couldn't unlock our forwards and our forwards didn't really try to create much on their own.

The ref was a cunt.

We scored a good goal though and Vicario is our best player. we're still shit a defending set peices.

Moyes is looking worse everyday

Moyes hasn’t got a high bar tbf

Always looked like a cunt

 

[Bazali]

Frustrating is playing against a keeper who has a worldie of a game.
Frustrating is having a bent ref/VAR disallowing good goals or giving things to the opposition.
There's nothing frustrating about a team who compresses 21 players into the opposition half and then look totally fucking baffled why there is no space to pass into and score from.
I've never been a fan of that. I didn't want AVB because that's what he did. I didn't want Poch at first because that was his style (and yes. his first and last year were blighted by boring games and poor results)

I want some one who can mix it up, see when one tactic isn't working and change it. That's what winners do.

 

[Distaste for scouse]

Indeed, fans are meant to be enjoying the football in every match and you're meant to see inconsistency, we are literally in rebuild season. You're right the first 10 matches of the season exceeded people's expectations, in reality we are averaging 1.9 PPG, for reference the league leaders are averaging 2.3 PPG.

Ah yes, rebuild/transition season No 441 under ENIC. Forgive me while I snicker

 

[Bazali]

Ok, so I'm not going to fight you on this but my point was that we needed to add VDV to Kane if we wanted to improve.

Now what we need and where we agree is that the next player in the VDV level needs to be CM and a forward, most likely a wide forward.

I think we have one in BJ on the right but Timo isn’t the answer and Sonny isn’t going to improve and was poor last night I thought

 

[nicoclaesen]

We don't, doesn't mean you still shouldn't be rolling over sides with vastly fewer resources and inferior players though...

The fact that we rarely do should be annoying to manager, players and fans, that's how you stay motivated to strive to improve.

It's nothing to do with god given rights, it's an absolute fact that we have better players, facilities etc than most clubs. Align that with the right attitude and you should be comfortably beating many of the sides in this league most of the time, particularly at home.

If you play the lower 14 sides at home in the league, any one of those sides can give you a tough game on any given day, maybe they get really fortunate and frustrate you enough to nick 3 points. That doesn't mean that every game should be a grind! People seem to cling to this notion that top sides get the 3 points without playing well... The top sides don't grind out a hard fought win in all of those games, they beat those teams comfortably most of the time, give out a hiding or two even, and then when they do have the occasional 1 in 10 off day, they grind out the win anyway.

That is not what we have done, we have been grinding without playing all that well for much of the season now.

Something seems off, if you'd have told me during the first 10 games of the season that this is what we'd be serving up 7 months later I'd be baffled.

I'm personally never one of those that claims a game will be easy and we'll smash the next opponent, there's certainly games where I think we should, but I know we won't, because of all of the actual evidence to suggest we won't.

Ultimately, I'm rambling on to say that in isolation, a laboured win against Luton is fine, when the majority of your games are going like that though, it's irritating.

You can enjoy the things you listed, they are enjoyable, Ange seems a good bloke, it's nice that the players are having a good time Monday to Friday at work, vibes are on point... but it's all pretty irrelevant compared to what happens on the pitch, and right now it's not enjoyable at all for the most part.

We've lost all the dynamism we seemed to have early on, incisive passing and constant movement into dangerous spaces has given way to constant recycling of the ball between our defenders and dm, often feeling the need to give Vicario a good amount of possession before bothering to mount a slow march upon the opposition defence. Pretty sure Zouma was having a fag break off camera at points last night whilst we faffed about with the ball at the other end of the pitch.

For the record, I'm not saying Ange out, I don't get this need to be so precious about that whenever a criticism of the side is made. I very much hope things improve under him, but I'm also not utterly convinced that time will change anything either, we seem to need a lot of external factors to come together for us to show our "best", we need to be taking charge and forcing the issue ourselves and I'm not seeing much sign of that.

Even the supposed aggressive winner types (ie Romero) just slowly and passively plod about whilst opponents are sitting deep, it's the likes of him that you'd hope would be providing the urgency and oomph to break down these sides.

I just can't marry up the squad we have on paper with what we're seeing on the pitch, like I said before, I have a bias towards our players but look at the following and tell me if you disagree:

- Our keeper is class
- Our two starting centre backs are class, and provide all the attributes you'd ask for in a top pairing
- Our two starting fullbacks are class, defensively competent enough and provide a real attacking threat for differing reasons
- Our pool of central midfielders is very strong, and pretty well rounded. In theory we can put out a range of combinations depending on the opposition and what we feel would be best suited to taking control of the game against 90% of the opposition we face in the PL.
- Our forwards are the main point most feel that could do with improvement, however, Richi and Son have both scored a respectable number so far this season, Johnson is putting up good numbers, they are a perfectly capable unit in this league, they just don't have that x factor that puts them in the top bracket.

Yet, we concede loads, we don't particularly control games, we score a lot but don't often win comfortably, we don't really create all that much...


I can't put my finger on what exactly is the problem, but I'd be inclined to feel that it's something to do with attitude if pressed, I don't know what needs to happen for it to be rectified...

But it's frustrating.

I think we all feel that and I agree with most but I do think this will improve under Ange because it’s nowhere near bad and I have enjoyed the season even though I’m left frustrated a lot of the time but we have still won a lot of games and in an exciting way.
The one thing I disagree with is that we definitely dominate games but not with peppering the goal with shots and chances but with possession. We don’t have front players that can turn that possession into comfortable wins. That’s why our transfer window this summer has to be good.

 

[Billy Bob mate]

Frustrating is playing against a keeper who has a worldie of a game.
Frustrating is having a bent ref/VAR disallowing good goals or giving things to the opposition.
There's nothing frustrating about a team who compresses 21 players into the opposition half and then look totally fucking baffled why there is no space to pass into and score from.
I've never been a fan of that. I didn't want AVB because that's what he did. I didn't want Poch at first because that was his style (and yes. his first and last year were blighted by boring games and poor results)

I want some one who can mix it up, see when one tactic isn't working and change it. That's what winners do.

But this is the thing...

We try to draw these sides out by playing it around at the back. This would give us the space to then quickly play through the opposition. This gets called boring.

If the team won't come out, then we have to engage them higher up the field. Fans then complain that the pitch is compressed.

 

[Matt1882]

Who are your favourite teams to watch when they play Spurs? ST holder for how many years now?

Who stands out as the best manager/coach in your opinion?

I’ve seen people on here say they hate Peps football while they love Conte or Jose type.

Just wondering if anyone is playing football like Harry or Jol these days?

Season ticket holder from the first season at wembley. Probably attended 5-10 games a season before that going back to Jol era.

I don't have a "favourite team to watch" because I'm a Spurs fan. I also think a lot of teams are more than one dimensional. Even Spam yesterday mixed it up. On the whole, they were happy to defend in numbers knowing we wouldn't have chance in hell of breaking them down, but in patches, they pressed us hard and won the ball back, and when they did, they attacked us quickly and often in numbers. We looked more like conceding a goal for about 70 minutes than they did despite us "controlling the game"

Our tactics suck. Passing around hoping a gap opens is not going to work. There's too many teams in the PL that are happy to play for a draw, and they'll get it against us as long as they concentrate.
People are convinced we do it to tire teams out. If that is the case, that's boring. Trying to play 45-60 minutes with no intention of entertaining the paying audience, to then turn it on for 45-30 minutes isn't fun.

It's just not interesting. We don't look like we even want to score half the time. I don't get it and I don't really want to watch it.
And on top of all that, despite the fact we have a great keeper and back 4, we're fucking awful at defending.

 

[Shadydan]

We don't, doesn't mean you still shouldn't be rolling over sides with vastly fewer resources and inferior players though...

The fact that we rarely do should be annoying to manager, players and fans, that's how you stay motivated to strive to improve.

It's nothing to do with god given rights, it's an absolute fact that we have better players, facilities etc than most clubs. Align that with the right attitude and you should be comfortably beating many of the sides in this league most of the time, particularly at home.

If you play the lower 14 sides at home in the league, any one of those sides can give you a tough game on any given day, maybe they get really fortunate and frustrate you enough to nick 3 points. That doesn't mean that every game should be a grind! People seem to cling to this notion that top sides get the 3 points without playing well... The top sides don't grind out a hard fought win in all of those games, they beat those teams comfortably most of the time, give out a hiding or two even, and then when they do have the occasional 1 in 10 off day, they grind out the win anyway.

If that's the case then why aren't Man Utd winning the league season in season out?

 

[manmountainbutters]

There you go, mitigating...

How many months until it is acceptable to be critical then? Before we are allowed to moan about labouring to a 2-1 at home to a depleted Luton without having "3 points! 3 Points! It's all about the points at this stage of the season!*" thrown back at you?

Why does time in the job matter at all in this respect? If I look at the two squads I don't think there is much difference talent wise now, with my Spurs tinted specs I'd probably claim us better in many departments. So why should we accept grinding out points against sides that they are sweeping aside with ease? Because Arteta's been there longer? So? Football isn't some linear trajectory where if you just wait long enough everything just improves consistently, Arteta having 3 years behind him whilst Ange has not had a full one yet has no impact on the comparable squad strength as it stands today.

The "only 8 months in" mantra only really works as a defence whilst things can be seen to be improving, but right now we seem to be regressing. I'm starting to wonder whether things at the beginning of the season were actually only exciting because the players didn't know exactly what they were doing in the new system, leading to some exciting chaos ball at times.

What we are seeing now is just as boring as the boring football under Conte/Mourinho, it just seems a bit more palatable because we have the ball, so we can just whinge and moan that it's the other side's fault for being defensive.

You want to know why it's been a slog? Go and look back over the season's results, how many of those matches have you enjoyed watching? I'm not talking about being happy with the result at the final whistle, I mean actually enjoyed the 90 minutes?

It's subjective I guess, but I'll go back a little way from the present with my views:

West Ham - did not enjoy
Luton - did not enjoy
Fulham - did not enjoy
Villa - enjoyed
Palace - Could only follow on the BBC website, did not enjoy following the predictable 0-0 for ages and going a goal down though tbh...
Wolves - did not enjoy
Brighton - did not enjoy
Everton - did not enjoy
Brentford - did not enjoy
City (FA Cup) - did not enjoy
Man Utd - meh, seeing their results either side of this fixture it's difficult to come away from this without feeling disappointed. If we are where we think we are then we should have been schooling them and ultimately we didn't.
Burnley (FA Cup) - did not enjoy
Bournemouth - Another meh, there was more to enjoy than not iirc but at the end we gave up a goal, and then another which was chalked off for a dubious offside. About 2/3s of this game I would say it was really good but the end was more nervy than it should have been. I'll say enjoyed but there's a big asterisk, it probably wouldn't bother me if not for the fact that this winning by the skin of our teeth habit has been so prevalent throughout the rest of the season.
Brighton - did not enjoy
Everton - Similar to the Bournemouth one above, we were looking decent for a bit but then instead of keeping at them we just lost the initiative, but for a much bigger portion of the game in this case. Outside of a pretty fast start this was not an enjoyable watch.
Forest - Enjoyed, not exactly free flowing but a good solid away win.
Newcastle - Enjoyed, actually had forgotten about this one tbf, minor gripe is that I wish we'd kept going and smashed them by more because I can't stand them...
West Ham - did not enjoy.
City - Enjoyed, perhaps swayed by lack of expectation and last minute scenes...
Villa - Enjoyed, despite the result we played really well and should have been out of sight
Chelsea - Can't really grade it, came away feeling positive in a way, but also we lost 4-1 and a bunch of players from a position of being 1-0 up and in total control, feel like we lost this more than they won it.

I'll stop there because I think I've illustrated my point, the losses have been as annoying as a loss is ever going to be obviously, but the wins have been irritatingly tight for the most part. There have been things to enjoy throughout obviously, but not consistently enough, and mostly I've come away feeling relieved rather than pleased.



*It's amazing how this is apparently valid at every stage of the season btw...

There's a lot of truth in this tbf. We seem to have an entire midfield that is out of form or whatever - I don't know but to a man they are playing well below their best. We don't seem to be learning from mistakes (like the last West Ham game ffs!). We very strangely seem to not want to take shots from 15+ yards or cross the ball often enough. We are nice about referees and get nowhere with that strategy. I loved the Angeball "we never stop" stuff, but I'm not seeing it right now. No even close. The team Conte had in the last 10 games of 21-22 would have wiped the floor with this Spurs team.

Must do much better. Ange has another year to significantly improve this. For me that means battering crap teams. It means varying our tactics and being less pedestrian. It means being more aggressive. It means top four next season and a final in a domestic cup and a semi in the CL.

 

[Bazali]

Maddison was good tonight and should never have been taken off

He was ok but that’s all although Kulu was shocking

 

[Matt1882]

The funny thing about Harry's total lack of actual tactics, was that the players could probably decide what to do themselves and go with it. With the squad we have now, a late 00's Redknapp would do well.

Ah yes, rebuild/transition season No 441 under ENIC. Forgive me while I snicker

Snicker is a chocolate bar. You probably want to snigger.

But this is the thing...

We try to draw these sides out by playing it around at the back. This would give us the space to then quickly play through the opposition. This gets called boring.

If the team won't come out, then we have to engage them higher up the field. Fans then complain that the pitch is compressed.

On the occasion it works and we draw the teams out, what do we do?
Yep, 57 passes allowing them to get back into shape.
There is no way, no way at all the players are doing that game after game after game against orders. No way,

 

[Bazali]

Season ticket holder from the first season at wembley. Probably attended 5-10 games a season before that going back to Jol era.

I don't have a "favourite team to watch" because I'm a Spurs fan. I also think a lot of teams are more than one dimensional. Even Spam yesterday mixed it up. On the whole, they were happy to defend in numbers knowing we wouldn't have chance in hell of breaking them down, but in patches, they pressed us hard and won the ball back, and when they did, they attacked us quickly and often in numbers. We looked more like conceding a goal for about 70 minutes than they did despite us "controlling the game"

Our tactics suck. Passing around hoping a gap opens is not going to work. There's too many teams in the PL that are happy to play for a draw, and they'll get it against us as long as they concentrate.
People are convinced we do it to tire teams out. If that is the case, that's boring. Trying to play 45-60 minutes with no intention of entertaining the paying audience, to then turn it on for 45-30 minutes isn't fun.

It's just not interesting. We don't look like we even want to score half the time. I don't get it and I don't really want to watch it.
And on top of all that, despite the fact we have a great keeper and back 4, we're fucking awful at defending.

Especially at set pieces

Vic is a decent keeper but has to dominate his box more!

Just realised what I posted!!!

 

[Distaste for scouse]

The funny thing about Harry's total lack of actual tactics, was that the players could probably decide what to do themselves and go with it. With the squad we have now, a late 00's Redknapp would do well.

Snicker is a chocolate bar. You probably want to snigger.

On the occasion it works and we draw the teams out, what do we do?
Yep, 57 passes allowing them to get back into shape.
There is no way, no way at all the players are doing that game after game after game against orders. No way,

snicker
[ˈsnɪkə]
verb
snicker (verb) · snickers (third person present) · snickered (past tense) · snickered (past participle) · snickering (present participle)

1. give a half-suppressed, typically scornful laugh; snigger:
   "he could imagine them snickering as he passed" · "she is a woman they all love to snicker at"

I'm old school, my volcab is huge like innit?

 

[nicoclaesen]

But this is the thing...

We try to draw these sides out by playing it around at the back. This would give us the space to then quickly play through the opposition. This gets called boring.

If the team won't come out, then we have to engage them higher up the field. Fans then complain that the pitch is compressed.

That’s the modern day game now. It’s like chess. Gone are the days when teams went toe to toe with each other. That’s why I still think the 80s was the best time for football. I think the class,guile and off the cuff stuff is gone for good. The game will evolve again and different formations will become popular again but those things I mentioned are gone or will be few and far between.

 

[Bazali]

The funny thing about Harry's total lack of actual tactics, was that the players could probably decide what to do themselves and go with it. With the squad we have now, a late 00's Redknapp would do well.

Snicker is a chocolate bar. You probably want to snigger.

On the occasion it works and we draw the teams out, what do we do?
Yep, 57 passes allowing them to get back into shape.
There is no way, no way at all the players are doing that game after game after game against orders. No way,

I just remember that the football was usually good to watch under Harry

You know

Entertaining

Not frustrating like last night

 

[Matt1882]

He was ok but that’s all although Kulu was shocking

What should have happened, was the totally invisible Werner, who seemed scared of the touching the ball comes off, Son on the left and Richie through the middle. That should have happened shortly after, if not at HT.

Not sure why we waited until the 70th minute to make changes and got it wrong.