January Transfer Thread 2024

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Spursidol said:
Depends on precise wording of contract but it was an 18 month loan with a break clause after 6 months and a clause saying if we got CL football the purchase became an obligation.

We did get CL football after he had been at Spurs 6 months, and it would have been perverse to word the contract such that we could get CL football (triggering an obligation) which could be avoided by Spurs not taking up the 6 month break and taking up the full 18 month loan.

So it certainly depends upon precise contract wording, but as I say perverse or poor wording if Juventus 'let us off the hook' - and of course we did buy Kulusevski at the end whether as obligation or option.
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Way I've seen it.

After 6 months and 18 months we had an option.
If we made CL LAST season ( not the one befor) it was an obligation.

No option was taken and obligation wasn't met so we negotiated.

www.hitc.com

Dejan Kulusevski's Tottenham situation cleared up amid confusion over loan deal

Have Tottenham signed him permanently yet?
www.hitc.com www.hitc.com
 
r-u-s-x said:
Way I've seen it.

After 6 months and 18 months we had an option.
If we made CL LAST season ( not the one befor) it was an obligation.

No option was taken and obligation wasn't met so we negotiated.

www.hitc.com

Dejan Kulusevski's Tottenham situation cleared up amid confusion over loan deal

Have Tottenham signed him permanently yet?
www.hitc.com www.hitc.com
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Thanks for that

Commercially its a very odd clause for Juventus to have drafted as it omits Juventus from getting a fee despite Kulusevski contributing Spurs getting CL football (and the money which goes with that) yet the whole idea of the clause is to allow Juventus to get more money through 'sharing' in the monetary success Spurs get partly through the efforts of Kulusevski (Juventus owned player).
 
Ionman34 said:
Fair enough if we gazzump them, or try to.

They're now going to have to pay the fuckabout tax.
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As I said before, I don't mind them paying a bit more but this case is different: Spurs maybe not be desperate to sell Dier but they very much want him sold and he wants Bayern apparently, while Bayern have other options.
And you can't blame Bayern for wanting the same player as Spurs. It's called competition.
 
Spursidol said:
Thanks for that

Commercially its a very odd clause for Juventus to have drafted as it omits Juventus from getting a fee despite Kulusevski contributing Spurs getting CL football (and the money which goes with that) yet the whole idea of the clause is to allow Juventus to get more money through 'sharing' in the monetary success Spurs get partly through the efforts of Kulusevski (Juventus owned player).
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We had large loan fee for both periods, that was the carrot to get Juventus to agree.

The reason we do loans seems to be cashflow hence we negotiated the obligation term for 18months, if we traded after 6 months it may restrict other deals.
 
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Smogz said:
Aren't there other Midfielders beside Gallagher that can do it. Hate saving Chelsea from FFP. That kid from the Championship? (Wharton or whatever his name was)
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Few u23 English midfielders we might be looking at, probably missed a couple. This is mainly players that have been in England youth teams that are now getting game time at Championship or above.

Maybe Possible
Hackney,
Wharton.

Maybe but bit more expensive
Gomes (only year and a half left on contract),
Gallagher (Chavs might sell for FFP),
Gibbs-White (signed for about £25m+10* in 2022),
Jobe (Lots of interest in him).

Probably unlikely/recently moved
Scott (moved this summer for £20m+5*),
Gray (Highly rated + family ties to current club),
Garner (Everton might want to keep).

Unlikely/might not sell to us
Chukwuemeka,
Palmer,
J. Ramsey,
Miley,
Elliott,
Lewis,
Mainoo,
Patino,
Morton,
Hinshelwood,
McAtee,
A. Ramsey.
 
White Hart said:
Maddison is becoming our general
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Not sure he's the man but ultimately we need this specific characteristic on the pitch.

Not at all trying to suggest we buy Hendo but it feels like we are just missing a grizzly old pro who will kick the f*ck out of the opposite midfield and pull up the younger, more skillful players, put an an arm around his shoulder and tell him that he will break legs for him.

Bentancur is the closest as far as I can tell.
 
OldBoy68 said:
Not sure he's the man but ultimately we need this specific characteristic on the pitch.

Not at all trying to suggest we buy Hendo but it feels like we are just missing a grizzly old pro who will kick the f*ck out of the opposite midfield and pull up the younger, more skillful players, put an an arm around his shoulder and tell him that he will break legs for him.

Bentancur is the closest as far as I can tell.
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Perisic would actually be that guy in my opinion.

Such a shame we got him so late and now with a severe injury.
 
Football Chap said:
Few u23 English midfielders we might be looking at, probably missed a couple. This is mainly players that have been in England youth teams that are now getting game time at Championship or above.

Maybe Possible
Hackney,
Wharton.

Maybe but bit more expensive
Gomes (only year and a half left on contract),
Gallagher (Chavs might sell for FFP),
Gibbs-White (signed for about £25m+10* in 2022),
Jobe (Lots of interest in him).

Probably unlikely/recently moved
Scott (moved this summer for £20m+5*),
Gray (Highly rated + family ties to current club),
Garner (Everton might want to keep).

Unlikely/might not sell to us
Chukwuemeka,
Palmer,
J. Ramsey,
Miley,
Elliott,
Lewis,
Mainoo,
Patino,
Morton,
Hinshelwood,
McAtee,
A. Ramsey.
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That's a good list.

Morgan Gibbs White for me. He's been outstanding every time I've watched him.
 
Sir Archibald Crooks said:
Yes they generally run the club very well, with some bad decisions thrown in (appointing Terry Neill, selling Pat Jennings) but from late 70's they had the foresight to stick with Burkinshaw despite relegation, sign Ardiles and Villa while the rest of the football world didnt have the vision, knew we were still short up front so signed the best we could get in Archibald and Crooks.

We had a brilliant scouting system with Tony Galvin, Graham Roberts, Gary Mabbutt all signed from non or lower leagues and youth set up (Hoddle, Perryman, Falco, Miller, Hazard, Hughton, Brooke).

Those cup wins weren't luck but the culmination of a few years of great decisions on the footballing side
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I dare say that Spurs were not run that well in the 70s. Yes, they recruited some quality attacking, talents like Villa & Ardiles, in the last 70s (but, like many other English clubs, turned down the chance to sign Maradona for around £60,000) - but basically all thru the 70s Spurs "forgot" to sign quality defenders and quality goalie (after Pat Jennings was sold to...Woolwich).
(Brian Clough at Not. Forest had a vision - at a relatively small club).
Here are Spurs league positions in the 70's, and apart for ending 3rd in 70-71, it's far from impressive:

79/80
First Division (- 91/92)
First Division (- 91/92)First Tier15101752:62-1040:4414Keith Burkinshaw
78/79
First Division (- 91/92)
First Division (- 91/92)First Tier13151448:61-1341:4311Keith Burkinshaw
76/77
First Division (- 91/92)
First Division (- 91/92)First Tier1292148:72-2433:5122
75/76
First Division (- 91/92)
First Division (- 91/92)First Tier14151363:63043:419Terry Neill
74/75
First Division (- 91/92)
First Division (- 91/92)First Tier1382152:63-1134:5019
73/74
First Division (- 91/92)
First Division (- 91/92)First Tier14141445:50-542:4211
72/73
First Division (- 91/92)
First Division (- 91/92)First Tier16131358:481045:398Bill Nicholson
71/72
First Division (- 91/92)
First Division (- 91/92)First Tier19131063:422151:336
70/71
First Division (- 91/92)
First Division (- 91/92)First Tier1914954:332152:323
 
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Spursidol said:
Agreed but all turned sour in late 80's early 90's when rebuilding East stand cost double its original budget, debt reached circa £20m (when Spurs total revenue was a fraction of that, top players like Linkeker cost under £1.5m) a vast sum at the time. Things so dire Scholar (then Chairman) tried to sell Spurs to Robert Maxwell (later stole zillions from pension funds before dying) and only rescued from Maxwell by Sugar buying us.

Scholar turned a relatively wealthy club into a club with high debts through poor management, failed diversification into sports clothing etc.

Problem was the debts didn't change, no sugar daddies around, so Sugar sold off any assets he could and cut costs where possible so as to pay down debt.

Footballwise we had an excellent manager in David Pleat until 1987 followed by Terry Venables, another excellent manager both of whom put together very good teams with top players and came close to silverware (close to title in 1987, won FA Cup 1991), but Venables tenure ran in parallel with Sugar's cost cutting.

From the time Venables left Spurs (circa 1993) and rest of 90's we had squads with a few 'stars' (eg Sherringham) but much of the team were of lower quality - there just wasn't the money to buy quality players throughout the team - but for example in 1994 we brought in Klinsman, Dumitrescu and Popescu when we already had Sherringham and Anderton.

But the teams were not finishing high up the table and this coincided with the start of PL where finishing high up the table and playing in europe brought in large sums of money.

So Spurs were in the position where we had 'so so squads' needing more quality but not having the money to buy them in during the more money orientated PL. And the squad simply deteriorated over the 90's as the best players moved on or retired and there wasn't the money to bring in the good players.

The hard times really came into focus under manager Christian Gross in about 1997 with Spurs toying with relegation - and a few years when getting over 40 points was the season objective. .

The league positions reflect where we were :

1996/97 - 10th
1997/98 - 14th
1998/99 - 11th (but League Cup winner)
1999/00 - 10th
2000/01 - 12th
2001/02 - 9th (Sugar sells 27% of Spurs to ENIC, Levy becomes Chairman)
2002/03 - 10th
2003/04 - 14th
2004/05 - 9th
2005/06 - 5th (start of Spurs turnround under Martin Jol, and 'Lasagne gate')
2006/07 - 5th (Sugar sells rest of his shares to ENIC who them have majority control of Spurs)

So for a decade in the 90's through into about 2004 Spurs league position was much closer to what we now would associate with the likes of Crystal Palace or Fulham and reflects the quality of squad we had at that time. And to be clear, league position and europe determined most of the money received by clubs and cups generated very little - very different to pre PL times when winning cups generated decent money.

The start of the PL also started an era when match crowds increased and match day revenues increased - but Spurs missed out having a relatively small stadium of 36k capacity.

So by the time enic took majority ownership of Spurs
- the squad was in a poor way, but improving from 2004 onwards when our first Sporting Director, Frank Arnesen shredded the squad and brought in over 20 players for first team and u21's, lots of duds but also a handful of gems. Sadly Abramovich poached Arnesen a year later.
- A stadium not generating money and requiring replacement
- Very little assets left inside Spurs
- Low profitability and cash generation = very limited ability to buy good players.
- Spurs were firmly embedded in bottom half of the table, past glories many years in the past

So that's where Levy/enic started - with Spurs in a very bad place..

Taken 20 years to get to where we are partly poor choices (eg of managers), certainly Haringey council politics screwed the stadium development by a decade, Oil money and state money (including Russia financed Abramovich) buying PL clubs vastly increased the cost of doing business, covid intervening for 3 years just as the stadium opened and other outside changes being some of the reasons.

Could Levy have done things better or more quickly - quite possibly. But Hicks and Gilette screwed up Liverpool for years, and Glazers have been doing the same to ManU - both saddling their clubs with huge debts without improving the clubs fortunes - and Ashley trashed Newcastle etc, so we'd have been a lot worse with many other owners.
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This summary should be made mandatory reading for Spurs fans (with a little editing) :cool:
 
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