Brighton vs Tottenham Hotspur (A) - Thursday 28th December 19:30

[Jenny Talia]

Putting it on individuals is really missing the point. We are running on fumes right now, and the way we play if you are a yard off the pace you are totally fucked.

Brighton is probably the worst team for us to play when we are knackered, well maybe City but they seem to have some kind of mental breakdown when they play us.

 

[Kane's left]

We don't see many clips of such tackles in X when others did that to us. If Romero, Biss, Royal did that, the videos will be plastered all over the Internet and made into memes. Really sad that we are always at the wrong receiving end.

TBH, I'm not sure if Son as our captain actually pressured the ref to look at such challenges with VAR. Our players need to be taught smarter and use the rules to our advantage. Other teams will call out the ref to do so and it's no coincidence you see some incidences went through VAR review that way. Madders being out we totally lost a voice into the refs ear.

That's why I really hate our players to be so nice sometimes. If Lamela is still here, I'll b championing him to be the captain all day long.

Absolutely, one bit of wisdom Mourinho passed onto us as a team is we have to be more nasty. No more Mr Nice Guy!

 

[skywalker68]

Absolutely pathetic. Please keep this same narrative when our players return and we’re flying.

Pep, Arteta and Klopp are managing the 3 sides that are favs for the title this year. All took some time to implement their football and vision at their new clubs, that’s the (very obvious) comparison I was making.

Their boards clearly saw what those managers were trying to do and trusted the process. What they didn’t do was piss their pants and panic 6 months in during an unprecedented injury crisis in spite of the hugely encouraging signs we’ve seen this season.

If you actually bother to check, I have said previously that, I like the manager and his football is good to watch.
But that doesn't mean, performance like last night can't be critiqued.
You said it was basically a knee jerk reaction off the back of one result.
But that's false, the same falling apart happened against forest and Everton, in both games we was fortunate to hang on.
But last night we got found out, if it wasn't for the woodwork and the keeper, it would have been six or seven.
Would that scoreline been acceptable to you, we only got two back last night because they stepped it down a bit, because it was too easy for them.
Please don't hide from the fact that the team is a mess at the moment.

 

[Henry Hotspur]

No it isn’t and we haven’t been worked out, it’s complete hyperbole on the back of a poor result and TBH I hope you stick to what you’re saying and don’t change your tune when we’re back spanking teams.

The manager has been here 6 months and has dealt with possibly the worst injury crisis in modern club history. In spite of that we’re 5th, 6 points off top and 4 off 2nd place (remembering that pre-season expectations seemed to be in the 6th - 8th range).

In the 10 games prior to our horrific injury list we went unbeaten and conceded 9 goals and had 4 clean sheets. In nearly every game during that run we dominated the opposition and completely controlled the game.

Now you’re pulling out quotes like “might have worked in Scotland but it won’t work here” and “once teams press up against us we fall apart”.

Of course we’re open at the back and passing pretty poorly, we have our only 2 competent CBs injured and the whole CM in front of them out too! The lack of appreciation for the situation the manager is in is fucking astounding.

Everyone on this forum needs to appreciate it’s going to be a really tough few games coming up with the lengthy absence list and just enjoy the games for what they are. There isn’t a manager in the world that could continue battering good sides with the absences we have.

Moreover, none of the world’s great managers right now would flex their tactics because of injuries in the way some are asking Ange to.

Pep came 3rd in his first season here, I remember many people calling him naive and unable to adapt to the PL at the end of that season. You know what happened? The league adapted to him ultimately not the other was around.

Arteta came 8th in his first 2 seasons whilst trying to implement his football. Klopp 8th, 4th and 4th in his first 3. Yet after 6 months of the best football we’ve seen in donkeys years here you’re trotting out quotes like that. It’s embarrassing.

Fans moan about trophies and success and then moan about the process the manager is implementing to get us that.

Shameful. Bring that same energy when we’re flying with a fully fit team mate. If you can’t see what Ange is trying to do and trying to build here you don’t deserve the success it’ll bring. You have to be fucking blind to not see the fantastic direction we’re travelling in.

And this is an example of the binary positions we as fans find ourselves in post defeat.

I haven’t disagreed with the above post because some of it is true. However, as supporters (some of us paying a lot of money to watch the team) we should be able to have reasoned debates on where the team is going wrong.

Last night we were wide open from long balls (not something you associate with Brighton) because they saw that without a CB in the side they were in business. The manager picks the team doesn’t he? Likewise, 1-0 up at Wolves on 90 mins and we should’ve hit king channel balls behind their defence (with half a side out we’d done very well to be winning).

Other games, such as Villa and West Ham it wasn’t the set up, balance or tactics that hurt us but poor finishing - which the manager can’t do much about in-game…

We ALL agree that our fit first XI would be flying now and would arguably not have dropped anywhere near the points we have.

The way I’m reading the posts following last night (& other defeats) isn’t as some kind of attack on Ange but the general frustration associated with being a fan, having seen points slip through the team’s fingers.

Let’s hope the manager is backed properly (pigs flying) in January and the injury list drastically shortens.

For the record (AGAIN) - I love the bold way we’ve approached the season. I’ve been more entertained in half a season as I was in 3 or 4 by Jose/Nuno/Conte. Just frustrated that we haven’t had the nous and quality to take points when they were on offer.

(Won’t mention Chelsea again, even though I’m scarred by the whole debacle )

 

[Kane's left]

View: https://x.com/hotspurreports/status/1740492447065464970?s=46&t=fbqxNuG9CT4qTaiJx8mBjg

Bentancur calling it out as well

This league is a joke

Operating system is running a little slow this morning.... What's he calling out exactly?

 

[1882]

I think Ange's post match comment about not faulting the players because "They gave everything they had" was very telling...

He's not questioning their commitment, (although some have been) but what he's essentially saying is that THEIR LEVEL OF ABILITY has a ceiling...

Certain players - of limited ability - have reached the peak of that ability...

It's just that maybe Hoijberg's or Lo Celso' ability, isn't that of Bentancur, Biss or Maddison!

That's a message in itself!

 

[GDG]

If you actually bother to check, I have said previously that, I like the manager and his football is good to watch.
But that doesn't mean, performance like last night can't be critiqued.
You said it was basically a knee jerk reaction off the back of one result.
But that's false, the same falling apart happened against forest and Everton, in both games we was fortunate to hang on.
But last night we got found out, if it wasn't for the woodwork and the keeper, it would have been six or seven.
Would that scoreline been acceptable to you, we only got two back last night because they stepped it down a bit, because it was too easy for them.
Please don't hide from the fact that the team is a mess at the moment.

But you’re not critiquing last night. You’re suggesting we’ve been worked out and effectively that Ange is naive for thinking he can do what he did in Scotland. Both of these are wrong and unfair.

Yes - performances have been much weaker over the last few weeks. We’re missing our best player, last night we were missing our starting CB pair and CM trio, we had very limited options off the bench. It’s inevitable that the level of performances will drop right?

City lost nearly every game where Rodri and KDB were out this season. Liverpool came like 6th the season VVD missed. How would Woolwich cope with Saliba, Gabriel, Rice and Odegaard out?

I’ll answer - very similarly to us.

I don’t have an issue with you suggesting team selection or subs should have been different, it’s the inherent panic in your initial post that suggests Ange is both naive and has been worked out that really irks me.

We’re in a tough period, we need to pick up as many points as possible over the next 3 games and then look to finish the season really positively from Feb onwards when the cavalry arrives.

 

[prokonig]

It's not half empty, it's what has been happening, have you not watched any games?
Teams have worked us out, push up high, because we don't have anything to beat the press.
Team is all over the place at the moment, miss placed passes from a number of players, no control over the game at all.
Watch Bournemouth get some sort of result this weekend, we are just too easy to play against.
It's not half empty, it's a fact.

When Ange had more first choice players, we were playing great stuff. The openness you refer to was mitigated by better quality to react to counters. In addition Romero and VDV play out from the back much better and counteract the press.

Your argument is that with them gone, pragmatism must prevail. Well, I think your logic is sound, but missing the bigger picture. With weak choices in defence, Ange, the players (and indeed and large percentage of the fans) have decided following Ange's principles, even in defeat, is a price worth paying to instill resilience and unwavering faith to play on that way, regardless of circumstances. It will be be a price worth paying when in a few transfer windows we're the ones murdering Brighton and others 4-0.

Time will tell whether this strategy will work out. Ange has earned the right to do it his way and I'll only lose faith when the players lose it or when it clearly isn't moving the football in the right direction. All that naive... I call it pragmatic.

 

[Jaynola]

We would be without a patched together team

It's not as if we lost to Brighton's best 11, they too were depleted.

We lost cause our resies can't do the job, but also cause our regular starters didn't lift them up by having a terrible game themselves...Udogie & Sonny losing track of the kid on Brighton's first, Kulu giving away a stupid pen, Richy forgetting that thing called the offside rule...

 

[GDG]

And this is an example of the binary positions we as fans find ourselves in post defeat.

I haven’t disagreed with the above post because some of it is true. However, as supporters (some of us paying a lot of money to watch the team) we should be able to have reasoned debates on where the team is going wrong.

Last night we were wide open from long balls (not something you associate with Brighton) because they saw that without a CB in the side they were in business. The manager picks the team doesn’t he? Likewise, 1-0 up at Wolves on 90 mins and we should’ve hit king channel balls behind their defence (with half a side out we’d done very well to be winning).

Other games, such as Villa and West Ham it wasn’t the set up, balance or tactics that hurt us but poor finishing - which the manager can’t do much about in-game…

We ALL agree that our fit first XI would be flying now and would arguably not have dropped anywhere near the points we have.

The way I’m reading the posts following last night (& other defeats) isn’t as some kind of attack on Ange but the general frustration associated with being a fan, having seen points slip through the team’s fingers.

Let’s hope the manager is backed properly (pigs flying) in January and the injury list drastically shortens.

For the record (AGAIN) - I love the bold way we’ve approached the season. I’ve been more entertained in half a season as I was in 3 or 4 by Jose/Nuno/Conte. Just frustrated that we haven’t had the nous and quality to take points when they were on offer.

(Won’t mention Chelsea again, even though I’m scarred by the whole debacle )

I don’t have any issue with criticism of individual subs, tactics or selections - I’m not some Ange sycophant that believe he can do no wrong. Far from it. I enjoy debate and discussion on such topics.

I think he got the team selection wrong last night and that it’s impossible to play through a good press with Davies, Royal, PEH and Sarr as your central 4. Albeit I’m not sure any change in team selection with what was available brings a different result.

But the post wasn’t really about that. The “we’ve been worked out” and “it might work in Scotland” is so fucking reactionary it’s borderline ridiculous.

This forum - every game we win it’s “we could win the title”, every time we lose it’s “this isn’t Scotland”.

 

[skywalker68]

When Ange had more first choice players, we were playing great stuff. The openness you refer to was mitigated by better quality to react to counters. In addition Romero and VDV play out from the back much better and counteract the press.

Your argument is that with them gone, pragmatism must prevail. Well, I think your logic is sound, but missing the bigger picture. With weak choices in defence, Ange, the players (and indeed and large percentage of the fans) have decided following Ange's principles, even in defeat, is a price worth paying to instill resilience and unwavering faith to play on that way, regardless of circumstances. It will be be a price worth paying when in a few transfer windows we're the ones murdering Brighton and others 4-0.

Time will tell whether this strategy will work out. Ange has earned the right to do it his way and I'll only lose faith when the players lose it or when it clearly isn't moving the football in the right direction. All that naive... I call it pragmatic.

Appreciate what your saying about price worth paying etc.
But if the team keep suffering heavy defeats, there is a chance that it could be counter productive to the players, confidence levels drop very easy if you go on a run of bad results.
I'm not sure that, Ange is going to tear the league up in seasons to come, that won't happen, but if they can be consistent and finish top 4/5 that will seen as successful.

 

[Matt1882]

You're all getting what you wanted when you were frothing at the mouth and wanted Conte and Mourinho out.

Many, many fans said they'd rather lose every week playing attacking football and that's what you're getting.

If you ever said you'd rather lose playing nice football, you have no right whatsoever to moan about last night. We had no defense, yet we slapped our balls on the table and the attack played like we had something at the back.

If we'd have dropped deep and defended in numbers, providing security for the patched up defense we might have got something last night. Most of you would have forgiven it as it was Ange and not Conte, but that's not the point. Last night is what a lot of you wanted. Quite voiciferously.

 

[skywalker68]

It's not as if we lost to Brighton's best 11, they too were depleted.

We lost cause our resies can't do the job, but also cause our regular starters didn't lift them up by having a terrible game themselves...Udogie & Sonny losing track of the kid on Brighton's first, Kulu giving away a stupid pen, Richy forgetting that thing called the offside rule...

This result has been coming for a while, it could have been a lot worse last night, thankfully the keeper and woodwork kept the scoreline down.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Operating system is running a little slow this morning.... What's he calling out exactly?

Dunk not getting red for exactly the same as Romero from exactly the same official

 

[skywalker68]

But you’re not critiquing last night. You’re suggesting we’ve been worked out and effectively that Ange is naive for thinking he can do what he did in Scotland. Both of these are wrong and unfair.

Yes - performances have been much weaker over the last few weeks. We’re missing our best player, last night we were missing our starting CB pair and CM trio, we had very limited options off the bench. It’s inevitable that the level of performances will drop right?

City lost nearly every game where Rodri and KDB were out this season. Liverpool came like 6th the season VVD missed. How would Woolwich cope with Saliba, Gabriel, Rice and Odegaard out?

I’ll answer - very similarly to us.

I don’t have an issue with you suggesting team selection or subs should have been different, it’s the inherent panic in your initial post that suggests Ange is both naive and has been worked out that really irks me.

We’re in a tough period, we need to pick up as many points as possible over the next 3 games and then look to finish the season really positively from Feb onwards when the cavalry arrives.

There is no panic from me, but there was panic all over the pitch last night and few games previously which irks me.

 

[Jaynola]

That first goal was simply criminal...how can you leave a player totally unmarked like that, when it's so easy to spot?! I mean, that's defending 101. But of course when they're all ball-watching and some just don't like to defend...

What to say about the two pens, especially the Kulu one?! That's just utterly stupid from the ginge, proper letting your team down stuff. But Ange would rather focus on the time it took VAR to give it.

Their Peruvian lad scores a worldie, yes. But at the same time, you don't really see any of ours bust a gut to try & get in the way of that shot. Nobody even tracks his run to begin with.

We can say all we want about the injuries & suspensions, the big ref conspiracy so dear to our resident Brazilian from Croydon, debate about Angeball vs pragmatism etc etc, but at the end of the day, PL players shouldn't make such easily avoidable mistakes. You make them, you lose football matches...unless you can outscore them at the other end, but we're way too wasteful for that.

 

[Starks]

If we'd have dropped deep and defended in numbers, providing security for the patched up defense we might have got something last night. Most of you would have forgiven it as it was Ange and not Conte, but that's not the point. Last night is what a lot of you wanted. Quite voiciferously.

Considering what we saw under Mourinho and Conte with our strongest possible defence, you know yourself that statement is total bullshit

If we sat back and just invited Brighton onto us we aren't more likely to get anything out of the game at all. Such a simplistic view of football

 

[Super Jan Fan]

We also (not just brighton) hit the woodwork multiple times. Just saying.

 

[Fat Abbot]

You're all getting what you wanted when you were frothing at the mouth and wanted Conte and Mourinho out.

Many, many fans said they'd rather lose every week playing attacking football and that's what you're getting.

Well, we’re currently 5th.

Mourinho got us 6th and 7th, and Conte got us 4th and 8th, so it’s hardly like playing boring, shitty football got us any further.

We lost 11-14 PL games every season with those two, and right now we’ve lost 5 and are halfway through the season.

So it’s not like we’re losing more either (rather the opposite).

 

[Maureen]

But they’re missing a few too

Those that are on n just aren’t doing it

Son and Johnson especially

Indeed they have 8-10 first teamers out, have navigated Europa league group stages qualified top, just a few points behind us, play good football, have really young and older players as well. We have almost first choice e front 4 yet they bumble around , no pressing, winning challenges, tracking back, hold on to the ball too long like deki and most importantly cannot pass with any sort of accuracy. Son b Everton fluffed a few easy passes out to Johnson. Same again yday along with kulu and bj who put some terrible balls in.