Fulham v. Tottenham - March 4 18:00 GMT

[halothagod]

Of course I did, I support Spurs

Shocked me, based on how gutted you are after wins.

 

[El Magnifico]

The first thing I wouldn’t have done was start sitting so deep from the 46th minute. But If I was Mou at the time he made the subs, intent on shelling, would have probably put Reguilon on and switched to a 442 or 352 dropping two of the AM’s back into the middle line, maybe also bringing in Moura to play RM and/or Winks to play in the middle 3 of the 5. Trying to stifle their midfield more than we were.

Bringing Sissoko on, pushing him into the CM2 and retaining the 4231, just means him and Hojbjerg melt back into the back line and we become virtually midfieldless 6-4 or 6-1-3, incapable of stifling them before they are deep into us and/or offering much threat on the counter.

So your first move is to change the left back when most of the threat was coming down the right. One sub wasted already.

The idea that we simply decided to sit back in the second half is just silly. Fulham raised the intensity and we couldnt keep up with their pressing losing the ball too easily and not working hard enough to recover it further up the pitch like we did in the firts half. We simply had too many plays who cant play the ball under pressure, and, we dont have the consistent work rate and football iq to press effectively higher up the field (Fulham defenders were having too much time on the ball).

The main threat was down our right with Lookman moving further wide. Bale definitely had to come off as he was clearly off the pace and already on a yellow. We also needed to clog up the middle as they were having too much space with Ndombele and Hojbjerg being out numbered and over run. (Might have held off on the Dele sub for a few more mins, but maybe there were fitness and injury concerns.)

Off the bench, Sissoko was the only option unless you think Winks would have been better or playing Dier as DM. Ndombele is our best option to holding the ball andcreating anything up front, so it is better to push him up the field and keep him on for as long as possible. The introduction of Lamela helped with our pressing up front.

On formation changes, a 3-5-2 would have further exposed our right flank, as Doherty would have lost the DM covering he had. A 4-4-2, would have further exposed our central midfield which would have reduced from 3 to 2.

Pay him 15 million and he might tell you

Given his proposal, I wouldnt pay him any mind.

 

[daveyboy88]

That’s what im saying but a lot of teams we have played against in the last few years have managed to park the bus and keep us at arms length. Those were not fully on quality international defenders. May just better organised in closing down space , the wide areas, etc. If we are going to sit deep and defend at least make sure you don’t let the oppo out balls into the box or even find players in space in our box. In the 2nd half v Fulham there were numerous times they had players in our box unmarked. Team effort is required to defend. Put it this way when we did have the ball in the 2 nd half how comes we could make very little headway? Because they closed us down and pressed us to win the ball back. Yet we allowed them to pass from their GK all the way into our pen box.

i know what you mean but i dont study other teams players, our defenders are really really poor! dont care what country they play for it means nothing! not all international players are quality some are pony. the worrying thing for ours is not only are they not good enough passers of the ball but they are thick as shit...we have two good defenders at the entire club good enough for top 6 sides

 

[El Magnifico]

Yeah, I've said so many times on various threads here.

This tactic of the 2 DMs sitting deep and babysitting the CBs is shit. Creates a massive void in midfield that other teams just exploit. Jose has to see and change this if he wants to change the fortunes of the team long term.

and you have no idea what you are talking about.

The double pivot is more for the fullbacks than the CBs. By having two DMs, each has to cover only one half of the field and thus makes it easier toprovide help to the LB/RB (particularly when the push up like WBs) without leaving the center wide open. You can go and rewatch the game and see how many times Doherty was bailed out by Hojbjerg.

One of the strengths of the formation is that there is a midfield trio which actually removes the void you are claiming exists, and gives you a numerical advantage against 2-man midfield formations (4-4-2 or 3-4-3) which is what gave us the advantage against fulham in the first half (when they played 4-4-2). In the second half, fulham went to 4-5-1/3-6-1 by pushing lookman wide and Robinson higher.

The main weakness of the 4-2-3-1 is that, against a back 4, you need the lone CF to occupy both CBs. Kane can do that offensively, but doesnt press enough when we dont have the ball (which is why Andersen kept having lots of time to pick his passes). We need other players to press more intelligently to cover up for it.

 

[BernardMatthews]

Who the hell let this guy in the forum? Don't we have a bouncer or something?

Get a bomber jacket and the job is yours.

 

[bus-conductor]

So your first move is to change the left back when most of the threat was coming down the right. One sub wasted already.

It’s like you didn’t read anything except the name Reguilon. I wouldn’t have changed LB’s I would leave Davies (as LB 442 or LCB 352)on, Switching to a 442 or 352 would have given us far mor lateral cover on both flanks, compared to the flimsy lack of protection that two immobile CM’s and Bale and Son were providing.

I even talked about then putting Moura, and he could have played RM - giving some energy and tenacity to help that right side defensively.

The idea that we simply decided to sit back in the second half is just silly.

ok, but this is a theme with us, so either the manager is telling us to shell on a lead or he’s telling us not to, but is incapable of coaching us to do it.

Fulham raised the intensity and we couldnt keep up with their pressing losing the ball too easily and not working hard enough to recover it

And this is another reason Sissoko is tactically a stupi sub, he neither helps us beat their press, or retain the ball, or works hard and dynamically to recover it,

We simply had too many plays who cant play the ball under pressure,

again, something Sissoko makes worse, not better.

and, we dont have the consistent work rate and football iq to press effectively higher up the field (Fulham defenders were having too much time on the ball).

That’s just a lame cop out. We could just be coached and tactically set up to play as a group further up the pitch, but our default is to revert to a deep block. We have players every bit as capable as Fulham have.

The main threat was down our right with Lookman moving further wide. Bale definitely had to come off as he was clearly off the pace and already on a yellow. We also needed to clog up the middle as they were having too much space with Ndombele and Hojbjerg being out numbered and over run. (Might have held off on the Dele sub for a few more mins, but maybe there were fitness and injury concerns.)

Again. Sissoko in the CM2 didn’t clog up the middle. If he’d have brought him in and gone 433/451, which I said when he brought him on, might have helped with the clog of both middle and flank, but he didn’t, he kept with the 4231 and we were even less effective at clogging their play,

On formation changes, a 3-5-2 would have further exposed our right flank, as Doherty would have lost the DM covering he had. A 4-4-2, would have further exposed our central midfield which would have reduced from 3 to 2.

I just do not get this logic. Both formats would have given us better lateral and central protection than the 4231 Sissoko/Hojbjerg set up did. The evidence was there to see on

Given his proposal, I wouldnt pay him any mind.

Except you did.

 

[El Magnifico]

It’s like you didn’t read anything except the name Reguilon. I wouldn’t have changed LB’s I would leave Davies (as LB 442 or LCB 352)on, Switching to a 442 or 352 would have given us far mor lateral cover on both flanks, compared to the flimsy lack of protection that two immobile CM’s and Bale and Son were providing.

I even talked about then putting Moura, and he could have played RM - giving some energy and tenacity to help that right side defensively.

Reguilon would have helped on the left side, but we were not having issues on the left side, so it is a wasted sub no matter what formation we played.

Changing to 4-4-2 would have left our midfield under manned.We were struggling with 3 but you want to reduce it to 2. and 3-5-2 would have further exposed the right flank as the space on that side waas already exploited with Doherty as LB but you would move him to WB. We would have ended up in a 5-3-2 at best and would have been even worse

ok, but this is a theme with us, so either the manager is telling us to shell on a lead or he’s telling us not to, but is incapable of coaching us to do it.

We have limitations, particularly when some key players are out. Toby and Davies are too slow to beat their man out of the press, Sanchez is bad on the ball and Doherty is clueless. We wouldnt be in such a bad spot if Aurier and Reguilon had been available.

And this is another reason Sissoko is tactically a stupi sub, he neither helps us beat their press, or retain the ball, or works hard and dynamically to recover it,

again, something Sissoko makes worse, not better.

Sissoko did his job as he was meant to simply clog up the middle. Without Loftus-Cheek, fulham AM are limited dynamically and struggled to move through the middle.

That’s just a lame cop out. We could just be coached and tactically set up to play as a group further up the pitch, but our default is to revert to a deep block. We have players every bit as capable as Fulham have.

Great idea to push up and further expose our lack of pace at the back

Again. Sissoko in the CM2 didn’t clog up the middle. If he’d have brought him in and gone 433/451, which I said when he brought him on, might have helped with the clog of both middle and flank, but he didn’t, he kept with the 4231 and we were even less effective at clogging their play,

what we play is a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 hbrid. A 4-5-1 is simply a general category for all formations with 5 man midfield, with the 2 level specification of the only used to emphasize the different roles and structureofthe midfield e.g. 4-2-3-1 vs 4-1-4-1.

I just do not get this logic. Both formats would have given us better lateral and central protection than the 4231 Sissoko/Hojbjerg set up did. The evidence was there to see on

No they wont. This is just basic football formations and tactics.

4-4-2 grants you two attackers at the expense of reducing your midfield presence. it would have further exposed our central midifield, as we would have only 2 instead of 3 people in the middle. Nothing would have changed on the flanks. The only argument for it would be to get Son on Andersen and get him off the ball, but I would rather take Kane out for that and that starts another chain of events.

3-5-2 trades one CB for an additional midfielder. It clogs up the middle but exposes the flanks but we were already struggling on the right flank and it would have only be made worse. Our CBs were relatively solid and didnt need the additional CB to go up against the lone CF that Fulham had for most of the second half.

 

[bus-conductor]

Reguilon would have helped on the left side, but we were not having issues on the left side, so it is a wasted sub no matter what formation we played.

No, it would have allowed us to change shape and shore up the right side simultaneously

Changing to 4-4-2 would have left our midfield under manned.We were struggling with 3 but you want to reduce it to 2.

we didn’t have “3” we had 2, we were playing 4231, with Alli dropping in, which he could still have done (hence me saying 451 as well above) making the 4231 which occasionally was 433, a 442 which was a 451 witnout

and 3-5-2 would have further exposed the right flank as the space on that side waas already exploited with Doherty as LB but you would move him to WB. We would have ended up in a 5-3-2 at best and would have been even worse

At worst that would have better than the 613 we ended up with as Sissoko just melts into the back line when we are shelling.

We have limitations, particularly when some key players are out. Toby and Davies are too slow to beat their man out of the press, Sanchez is bad on the ball and Doherty is clueless. We wouldnt be in such a bad spot if Aurier and Reguilon had been available.

Reguilon was available.

Sissoko did his job as he was meant to simply clog up the middle.

But he didn’t. That’s the point. The pattern of the game did not change one bit after he came on.

Without Loftus-Cheek, fulham AM are limited dynamically and struggled to move through the middle.


Great idea to push up and further expose our lack of pace at the back

Like sitting deep and inviting pressure around our box has worked well for us?

Fulham’s ability to break a high line was minimal, not just because they only have one zippy player - Lookmam - but because their midfield lacked the capability.

what we play is a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 hbrid.

Even if that were true, which it at best is only half true. it’s a really shit hybrid which had had Moura as the ACM prior to Thursday,

A 4-5-1 is simply a general category for all formations with 5 man midfield,

no it’s not.

with the 2 level specification of the only used to emphasize the different roles and structureofthe midfield e.g. 4-2-3-1 vs 4-1-4-1.


No they wont. This is just basic football formations and tactics.

4-4-2 grants you two attackers at the expense of reducing your midfield presence.

Not when you are using it the way Mourinho often does, which is why he does use it quite often, and I think could have used it here to nullify them better.

it would have further exposed our central midifield, as we would have only 2 instead of 3 people in the middle.

Nothing would have changed on the flanks. The only argument for it would be to get Son on Andersen and get him off the ball, but I would rather take Kane out for that and that starts another chain of events.

3-5-2 trades one CB for an additional midfielder. It clogs up the middle but exposes the flanks

It depends how it’s being applied obviously. The way I’m suggesting , it would protect the flanks because with 5 the central zone we would just shuffle across laterally, and with 3 proper CM’s in the centre, it would have forced them into congested zones. Combined with having our quickest Cb (Sanchez) on the side where their only quick player was (Lookman) we could have easily applied it.

but we were already struggling on the right flank and it would have only be made worse. Our CBs were relatively solid and didnt need the additional CB to go up against the lone CF that Fulham had for most of the second half.

you can just keep ignoring what I’m saying and repeating this mantra, along with “your formation is just numbers but numbers are a formation”, but all you are advocating is effectively changing nothing tactically, just doing it with shitter players

 

[matspur]

Shocked me, based on how gutted you are after wins.

Enough now. Can’t you go and make yourself a plate of sardines or something- I heard it was Jose’s favourite food so I guess it is probably yours

 

[halothagod]

Enough now. Can’t you go and make yourself a plate of sardines or something- I heard it was Jose’s favourite food so I guess it is probably yours

Not a child so won’t descend this low with you lad, but do yourself a favor and enjoy the club when we win games and not go around every thread trying to ruin it for everyone.

Or just keep supporting PSG till the manager leaves then come back?

 

[iz futbal]

The VAR decision wasn’t lucky because Sterling was 100% offside. I agree things were going pear-shaped and that’s why he was sacked and as I said before I think it had to happen

I meant Llorente's goal which hit his own arm first.

 

[matspur]

Not a child so won’t descend this low with you lad, but do yourself a favor and enjoy the club when we win games and not go around every thread trying to ruin it for everyone.

Or just keep supporting PSG till the manager leaves then come back?

Yeh whatever. I love it when you disciples try to take the moral high ground. Anyway I’m not taking any lectures from non-Spurs supporters on here so jog on.

 

[matspur]

I meant Llorente's goal which hit his own arm first.

Fair enough but I don’t think that was a clear handball either. I can remember they had a ref in the studio who said it hit his thigh which was wrong so nobody seemed to be able to tell

 

[spursmalc]

I do not think Fulham deserved a draw. They were unlucky they could not take advantage of the defence's muck up with the disallowed goal but we really should have scored a second in the first half.
Our problem is we cannot play our A team twice a week and had to rest our best FB's and sub 3 of our better players in the 2nd half. 5 of our first team players were thus not playing the last 20 mins.
We should be able to get more mins out of these 5 players as time goes on and performances will improve if we can.

 

[halothagod]

Yeh whatever. I love it when you disciples try to take the moral high ground. Anyway I’m not taking any lectures from non-Spurs supporters on here so jog on.

What are you on about you complete weirdo?? What disciples? Have you noticed you have not responded with anything other than petty and childish insults. How about the fact you are acting like a Fulham fan since we took those 3 points. And you have the cheek to call someone else a non supporter! Why don’t you meet me at the ground at your earliest convenience and let’s settle it man to man, on camera. Fucking cunt.

 

[halothagod]

I do not think Fulham deserved a draw. They were unlucky they could not take advantage of the defence's muck up with the disallowed goal but we really should have scored a second in the first half.
Our problem is we cannot play our A team twice a week and had to rest our best FB's and sub 3 of our better players in the 2nd half. 5 of our first team players were thus not playing the last 20 mins.
We should be able to get more mins out of these 5 players as time goes on and performances will improve if we can.

Anyone telling you they “deserved” a draw is a gutted “anti Spurs” fan at the moment. No other explanation.

 

[matspur]

What are you on about you complete weirdo?? What disciples? Have you noticed you have not responded with anything other than petty and childish insults. How about the fact you are acting like a Fulham fan since we took those 3 points. And you have the cheek to call someone else a non supporter! Why don’t you meet me at the ground at your earliest convenience and let’s settle it man to man, on camera. Fucking cunt.

You aren’t a supporter- you are a Jose fan boy who joined this forum the very same day Jose joined Spurs and you have the cheek to pretend you support the team more than me. So let’s get this clear- you want to meet me outside the ground for a fight - and I am the child apparently! Oh well I forgive you- it’s probably that extra glass of Saturday night Port that you’ve had. Anyway I doubt you could find the ground- well not without a satnav anyway ya plank!!!
Have a good ebening!

 

[halothagod]

You aren’t a supporter- you are a Jose fan boy who joined this forum the very same day Jose joined Spurs and you have the cheek to pretend you support the team more than me. So let’s get this clear- you want to meet me outside the ground for a fight - and I am the child apparently! Anyway mate I doubt you could find the ground- well not without a satnav anyway ya plank!!!
Have a good ebening!

Cunt. You and Igula can fuck off as well. All i have asked you both is why you get SOO upset when we win 3 points? You are calling me a jose fanboy, which is laughable, but carry on

 

[matspur]

Cunt

What a tosser you really are!!

 

[halothagod]

What a tosser you really are!!

Yeah a tosser for asking you to stop moaning and enjoy the win! Let’s all call for a sack else we’re fanboys and tossers!