Summer 2020 Transfer Thread

[Igula]

Bizarrely, if Sissoko (& enough other non-HG players) go, I can see Gedson staying as the "right-sided midfield runner" in Mourinho's "squad puzzle".
The Mendes connection is obviously complicated.
It may also be the case that if we terminate the loan early, we get hit with a financial penalty clause by Benfica. Which I'm sure Levy won't want to pay.

Even though I haven't been impressed with Gedson I will gladly have him replace Sissoko in the side if it means Sissoko is gone. I can't imagine he will do much less than Sissoko will do out there and at least he brings youth and the potential to improve with more experience and the potential to have us have a good relationship with Benfica which could help us going forward.

 

[todd1882]

we have not got time to spend 5/6 years trying to put something special together.

Why not? Is there somehting we should all fear going to occur in the next 5-6 years?

we haven't got time to spend outside of those CL spots for too long.

They should have though about that when the were underinvesting during the previous 5-6 years. This type of renewal was needed for sometime.

If the club can get among CL and or success, then it can go back to recruiting young promising talent but certainly now is not the time.

this 'now' without a plan, and to be clear we have no plan other than "spend and get back in the CL", is what leads teams to long periods of rudderless mediocrity (see ManU and LIverpool for evidence). Whereas Klopp put a 5 year plan into place and told everyone to be patient. And man, has that worked out for them. but we shall see how this no-plan spending works out for us.

 

[Spursidol]

You're kidding yourself, if Real want him back they'll get him. Don't you think they spoke before he left? He doesn't necessarily have a right to refuse anyway, buy back clauses almost always contain a signed contract agreement. Barca and real do it with all their buy backs, to protect their assets. So they can buy back and resell if there is profit in it.

If Reguilon is clearly better than Mendy they'll got him back. If he isn't, they won't.

Madrid can force Spurs to sell

They cant force the player to return - 'bribe' him yes (wages, guaranteed playing time) force him no,

 

[snowkarl]

Madrid can force Spurs to sell

They cant force the player to return - 'bribe' him yes (wages, guaranteed playing time) force him no,

You're wrong

 

[Oracle]

Levy came out at £32m, which was low, and Milan wanted £55m, which was (very) high.

This is probably going to end up around £40m when it's all said and done. Too good of money for Milan to not want to cash in.

Sissoko to Inter and £5m to us please Antonio.

 

[skywalker68]

Why not? Is there somehting we should all fear going to occur in the next 5-6 years?


They should have though about that when the were underinvesting during the previous 5-6 years. This type of renewal was needed for sometime.


this 'now' without a plan, and to be clear we have no plan other than "spend and get back in the CL", is what leads teams to long periods of rudderless mediocrity (see ManU and LIverpool for evidence). Whereas Klopp put a 5 year plan into place and told everyone to be patient. And man, has that worked out for them. but we shall see how this no-plan spending works out for us.

Well to be fair mate the "plan" or "legacy" that poch/levy wanted for us didn't work out in terms of success did it.
Personally the recruitment this summer has been brilliant imo, everyone purchased so far is pretty much at their peak.
With a couple of additions that itk has hinted at, this window and season is shaping up to be something very special.

 

[sammyspurs]

He was part of the committee that agreed to bring Aurier in, so yeah he is partly responsible. That's why I've told you that scouting and recruitment needs to improve.

And it has

 

[Igula]

Well to be fair mate the "plan" or "legacy" that poch/levy wanted for us didn't work out in terms of success did it.
Personally the recruitment this summer has been brilliant imo, everyone purchased so far is pretty much at their peak.
With a couple of additions that itk has hinted at, this window and season is shaping up to be something very special.

It resulted in our best form in 20? 30? 40? years. I have major doubts that if we went for short term solutions we would have seen anything close to the same results.

Plus right when we needed to make some roster turnover moves and supplement the squad we instead spent nothing and let the squad deteriorate into what we have now.

I am also not sure that just because something didn’t work once you should abandon it. Look at what worked and what didn’t and build from there. Maybe they would come to the conclusion that it is an overall poor strategy but seeing how it has worked for the majority of successful clubs I doubt it.

 

[todd1882]

Tbh, ive never watched VvD and thought; hes fast as fuck.

He can run. He's faster than Harry and can run with most CFs. It's quite a bonus to have. He is approaching 30 though so who knows how long that will last.

 

[Elias]

It's not 'all about athleticism & ability to recover' but there should be an athleticism threshold under which a person should not be considered. Skriniar will not be an effective 1v1 defender in the PL because he is not quick enough. Sure, you can try to tactically limit those instances but that will not be foolproof. He will get got at and he will be exposed. And beyond that his 1v1 defending is more like Jan's than it is Toby's. I will let yall see that for yourselves and determine what those differences are.

We don't have 1 CB that is a good 1v1 defender. All we are buying is a defender that is a perceived upgrade on what we already do. That's marginal improvement at best and I don't know how that drastically improves us as a side. Getting a Upamecano (just using his skillset for example so don't @ me about money, etc) drastically improves the side because it relieves some pressure on the FBs to recover because DU can be left on an island with any striker. See? Atheleticism matters.

There are two MFers from Spain that even now in their advanced age would easily be top 10 PL MFers but I wouldn't want them because they are not athletic enough. You just can't plug a slow coach in and think they will still perform.

I won't say anything about Tanganga because I haven't seen enough. but as for sanchez, he has so little footballing ability/understanding his uncoordinated athleticism really cannot be put to use. I cannot fathom looking at that guy and thinking "I gotta have me some of that". And as RESPECT THE COCK can tell you I was on to this guy very, very early. And it's not gotten better since. He's just not much of a footballer.

I agree with a lot of this. But....
I believe the single most important quality for a CB is reading of the play. The first step is always in the head, and a great reader of the game will anticipate correctly and get where he needs to be before a faster player who is more reactive.
Also CB is the position on the pitch where partnerships are crucial and can compensate for other deficiencies. Toby and Jan were never the fastest, or even outstandingly good 1 v 1 defenders. But they understood each other's game and anticipated opposition player intentions early and accurately.
I'd watched a fair bit of Toby at Atletico Madrid, sometimes when he was a RB, and I wasn't surprised when Simeone got rid on loan to Soton.
And what happened next? It's highly likely that Verts lobbied Poch to get Toby to Spurs because they understood each other's game, and together they formed arguably the best CB partnership in the PL for a couple of seasons.
I note that one of Mourinho's favourite CBs is Varane. And Varane's greatest strength is not his size or his athleticism but his supreme ability to read the game.

 

[todd1882]

Madrid can force Spurs to sell

They cant force the player to return - 'bribe' him yes (wages, guaranteed playing time) force him no,

See Morata, Alvaro Juventus CF circa 2016-17ish.

 

[todd1882]

Well to be fair mate the "plan" or "legacy" that poch/levy wanted for us didn't work out in terms of success did it.

Don't know what this is meant to address. You mean the plan to keep us good during our time of Stadium austerity/move? Seemed to work swimmingly. Do you have memories of another more successful 5 year period? Do tell.

But I asked why the rush and why can't we wait another 5 years as you state? That has nothing to do with Poch.

Personally the recruitment this summer has been brilliant imo, everyone purchased so far is pretty much at their peak.

So far I'm really only elated about 1 purchase. the rest? Meh. Hopefully these new player's peak powers will see us start playing some scintillating stuff. I have the feeling our football is about to explode.

With a couple of additions that itk has hinted at, this window and season is shaping up to be something very special.

Care to be a little more precise as to what 'very special' would be?

 

[todd1882]

I am also not sure that just because something didn’t work once you should abandon it. Look at what worked and what didn’t and build from there. Maybe they would come to the conclusion that it is an overall poor strategy but seeing how it has worked for the majority of successful clubs I doubt it.

Ahh yes, process evaluation. Love it but most round these parts only like results evaluation. We could win the League Cup after murdering scores of kids in developing nations and half this board would be celebrating like maniacs.

 

[Igula]

It's not 'all about athleticism & ability to recover' but there should be an athleticism threshold under which a person should not be considered. Skriniar will not be an effective 1v1 defender in the PL because he is not quick enough. Sure, you can try to tactically limit those instances but that will not be foolproof. He will get got at and he will be exposed. And beyond that his 1v1 defending is more like Jan's than it is Toby's. I will let yall see that for yourselves and determine what those differences are.

We don't have 1 CB that is a good 1v1 defender. All we are buying is a defender that is a perceived upgrade on what we already do. That's marginal improvement at best and I don't know how that drastically improves us as a side. Getting a Upamecano (just using his skillset for example so don't @ me about money, etc) drastically improves the side because it relieves some pressure on the FBs to recover because DU can be left on an island with any striker. See? Atheleticism matters.

There are two MFers from Spain that even now in their advanced age would easily be top 10 PL MFers but I wouldn't want them because they are not athletic enough. You just can't plug a slow coach in and think they will still perform.

I won't say anything about Tanganga because I haven't seen enough. but as for sanchez, he has so little footballing ability/understanding his uncoordinated athleticism really cannot be put to use. I cannot fathom looking at that guy and thinking "I gotta have me some of that". And as RESPECT THE COCK can tell you I was on to this guy very, very early. And it's not gotten better since. He's just not much of a footballer.

i think it is easy to say get in CB's that will be good in one on one situations and handle guys in the PL, and then say don't focus on Upamencano, but I think the problem is the number of guys that can actually do what you want at the PL is incredibly small. I think for you and Five you are likely willing to take that risk fair enough but there is far from a laundry list of guys ready to come and play for a (potential) top 4 side and have those qualities. Which is why we should be targeting them at a younger age when they are available and affordable.

Edit:

I would also add if we had that Upamecano-style player I would likely prefer to go with a CB group of Skriniar-Tanganga-Davies-CCV rather than Dier-Toby-Sanchez-Tanganga-Davies.

You likely prefer to have none of them but my point being I think that the guys we have are more of an issue with bringing in Skriniar than the player himself. Because Skriniar is a no doubt talented CB that could easily fit in a top 4 PL side and be a top player for them, IMHO.

 

[RocketRonny]

Gedson is like a portuguese Dele.

The Portuguese Onomah maybe. Dele was mustard for three seasons. Gedson seems uncertain if he’s playing football

 

[sammyspurs]

The Portuguese Onomah maybe. Dele was mustard for three seasons. Gedson seems uncertain if he’s playing football

Three seasons lol

 

[Nabil Bentaleb]

Gedson is like a portuguese Dele.

He fucking wishes. Dele is prime zidane next to him.

 

[bus-conductor]

I would prefer a centre half with pace and the ability to march out of defence with the ball and make forward accurate passes that break the lines

This guy however is the type of defender that suits Jose's tactics and style of football and also can be purchased within our budget restraints. I guess there is nothing else that an be done until both Jose leaves and the club is able to spend more money.

This is the thing though, I think there are options out there for our budget that would offer us more of the things we need. I like Todibo a lot, Koundé (I'm struggling to believe that Sevilla have knocked back 50m), quite like Tapsoba, RESPECT THE COCK will sing the praises of Fofana (Wesley) reachingforthestars likes Disasi (Monaco) both of whom I quite like the look of too, I quite like Badieshile (also Monaco) who is actually a proper LCB. That's just a few names off the top of my head, I'm sure others could chip in. How much would Upamecano cost ? More than 35m but how much more and how much more would we be getting for that?

Now, none of those are perfect, they've all got some flaws that need a bit pf polishing, but they all offer something we don't have and are much younger (most of them) than Skriniar and therefore have more potential improvement.

If Skriniar's already physically and technically flawed now at 25, he's not going to improve that much. It just seems like a really unimaginative piece of "now" recruitment.

He might be fine for Mourinho for the next 12 months, but what about we he buggers off and we are left with three generations of the same wardrobe for CB's?

 

[Igula]

This is the thing though, I think there are options out there for our budget that would offer us more of the things we need. I like Todibo a lot, Koundé (I'm struggling to believe that Sevilla have knocked back 50m), quite like Tapsoba, RESPECT THE COCK will sing the praises of Fofana (Wesley) reachingforthestars likes Disasi (Monaco) both of whom I quite like the look of too, I quite like Badieshile (also Monaco) who is actually a proper LCB. That's just a few names off the top of my head, I'm sure others could chip in. How much would Upamecano cost ? More than 35m but how much more and how much more would we be getting for that?

Now, none of those are perfect, they've all got some flaws that need a bit pf polishing, but they all offer something we don't have and are much younger (most of them) than Skriniar and therefore have more potential improvement.

If Skriniar's already physically and technically flawed now at 25, he's not going to improve that much. It just seems like a really unimaginative piece of "now" recruitment.

He might be fine for Mourinho for the next 12 months, but what about we he buggers off and we are left with three generations of the same wardrobe for CB's?

Do you think any of those guys are ready to play in the PL right now?

If Todibo is really available for the 15m rumoured we could easily get him and Skriniar this window.

 

[todd1882]

I believe the single most important quality for a CB is reading of the play. The first step is always in the head, and a great reader of the game will anticipate correctly and get where he needs to be before a faster player who is more reactive.

Not saying this isn't a vital aspect of the position but you can take the greatest reader of the game and put them in a modern tactical setup and they will be exposed because they are too slow. Nothing worse than a slow assed CB chasing after a fleet footed forward with no chance of catching him. I'm not sure you should divorce any 1 criterion from the other but there should be a base level of athleticism. Likewise there should be a base level of football understanding as well.

Also CB is the position on the pitch where partnerships are crucial and can compensate for other deficiencies. Toby and Jan were never the fastest, or even outstandingly good 1 v 1 defenders. But they understood each other's game and anticipated opposition player intentions early and accurately.

And were shit before Vic and Wanyama were there to guard them. Remember? With the sieve that was Bentaleb and Mason pairing? We gave up a lot of goals and that pairing didn't become 'great' until they had that protection.

And what happened next? It's highly likely that Verts lobbied Poch to get Toby to Spurs because they understood each other's game, and together they formed arguably the best CB partnership in the PL for a couple of seasons.

See above.

I note that one of Mourinho's favourite CBs is Varane. And Varane's greatest strength is not his size or his athleticism but his supreme ability to read the game.

You do recognize that Varane is mighty quick right?