Rudiger claims he heard monkey chants

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Damn were those seriously the headlines?Where's the part about the Chelsea fan that actually got arrested for racially abusing Son?
I hate sensationalist media...
It's 'cos Son DIDN'T do a 'slitty eyed' gesture for the cameras... therefore it didn't happen!

You all know the drill.... if You don't take a picture, it didn't happen!
 
Two days gone and not a shred of concrete evidence to support the racist claim. But there are three questions.
1. Did Rudiger cheat in getting Son sent off?
2. Did Rudiger break up a promising period of play by making an allegation of racism
3. Was there racist comments or gestures from Spurs fan(s)?

1. Watch the video and make up your own mind
2. Watch the video and make up your mind
3. Watch the video, use professional lip readers and others and make up your own mind

We have to reach conclusions based on the evidence before us. Those of us who call for the evidence to be presented before we condemn either the fan(s), club or others are the people of reason in this hysterical issue. Frankly those who want to condemn the fan(s) or club before we see any evidence shouldn't be supporting Tottenham.

I am proud of our club our supporters and our long tradition of fairness. Those who seek to try and destroy this without any evidence to support their argument are the ones who should be condemned.
 
True, in terms of a trial. Youd also have to say the same about all those who claimed to not have heard anything as well then

Aren't you being a tad silly now....? :unsure:

...It's not like this case will be decided on the basis of such a non-testimony; maybe by default of a LACK of testimony (but that's not the same thing). Which leads us back to square one... No evidence; no conviction (so far)... Let alone the fact that no 'accused' has been established.

Let the process play out. If applicable, I'm pretty sure you'll see far more people here willing to condemn any racist behaviour then.
 
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Aren't you being a tad silly now....? :unsure:

...It's not like this case will be decided on the basis of such a non-testimony; maybe by default of a LACK of testimony (but that's not the same thing). Which leads us back to square one... No evidence; no conviction (so far)... Let alone the fact that no 'accused' has been established.

Let it the process play out. If applicable, pretty sure you'll see far more people here willing to condemn any racist behaviour then.

My point was simply that if someone hearing it is not real evidence then neither is people claiming they heard nothing (myself included)

Anyway its done now, I remain disapointed by some elements of the reaction (not the asking for evidence but things like declaring non conclusive the same as proof it didnt happen and just a general tribalism to something that should be beyind that (had this been the other way I imagine almost noone would have reacted like a few have here),

Roll.on Brighton and please god let ndombele start
 
Jesus H Christ - it’s almost as if some our fans on here WANT us to be proven guilty so they can validate their PC agenda. FML
 
Lurker here, poster elsewhere.
Surprised this hasn't already been posted here.
(Copied from Glory Glory Can't get the photo to post here).



To all concerned,

There is a photograph taken at the Tottenham Hotspur stadium on Sunday of Antonio Rudiger, Harry Kane and the referee, Anthony Taylor, in discussion after the sending off of Heung Min Son. It appeared on both the Telegraph and Guardian website front pages. I post the link here:



In the stands, immediately behind Harry Kane's head, you can see a tall, rather angry looking, middle aged man pointing his finger in Antonio Rudiger's direction. That man is me. I begin with this revelation, for want of a better word, because I wish to establish that there can hardly have been more than half a dozen fans in the stadium who were closer to where Sunday's big talking point unfolded than me. I was probably less than twenty yards away.

And I am as convinced as it is possible to be that there was no racism directed at Antonio Rudiger. I could not be more certain that this unprecedented media storm is, in fact, the consequence of a huge misunderstanding on Antonio Rudiger's part. To be clear, please do not mistake my stance for that of someone who lightly dismisses or excuses racism; or for that of a fan incapable of objectivity and in denial about the possibility that racists exist within all clubs' fan bases. For me, the fight to eradicate racism in football far exceeds in importance and worthiness the desire to defend my club's reputation. I know that there are racists among all fan bases - Spurs included. And should I ever witness racism from Spurs fans, I would want the full force of the law to bear down on them.

So, to the events of Sunday afternoon and why I so wholeheartedly believe what I believe. By way of background, for what it's worth, I have no real argument with Son's sending off. He did make a slight, if aborted, move of his feet towards Rudiger as he tumbled. And such an action is likely to result in a red card. Nevertheless, that can't excuse Antonio Rudiger's reaction. Jose Mourinho said it best when he sarcastically wished the Chelsea defender a speedy recovery from the multiple broken ribs that he must have suffered. There is nothing more cowardly within football than feigning injury in order to get an opposition player sent off.

As English football fans are wont to do in such circumstances, thousands of us in the south stand chanted "cheat, cheat, cheat, cheat..." at Antonio Rudiger. It was at that specific moment that he turned and gestured angrily at us before going to his captain / the referee to complain about having been the target of monkey noises. When English is not your first language and when you are unfamiliar with English fan culture, 5000 or so English fans chanting "cheat, cheat, cheat...." at a fast tempo and unsynchronised could, I suspect, sound very much like monkey noises. The timing of Antonio Rudiger's angry gesture towards the fans and immediate subsequent discussions with his captain and the referee confirms that suspicion. The only alternative is that Antonio Rudiger is claiming that he heard a lone voice making monkey noises. And if that is the case, then I say that Antonio Rudiger is a liar. There is not the remotest chance that he could have isolated that lone voice above the nigh on identical sound of 5000 fans repeatedly shouting "cheat".

Of course, it is possible that, in a quieter moment, Antonio Rudiger heard this lone, racist voice. But no one else did. Nor could Spurs' and the police's forensic CCTV study of every fan in the crowd identify a guilty party. Besides, I am quite confident that the person to whom this lone voice belonged would have been quickly shopped - or at least shopped by now - if he existed. Spurs fans do not tolerate racism. So I can only conclude that this person does not exist. And since I have no reason to believe that Antonio Rudiger would lie about such a serious matter, the only remaining, plausible explanation that fits the facts is that he mistook chants of "cheat" for monkey noises. That's why he gestured angrily at fans in the south stand. He couldn't have been reacting to anything else.

In the meanwhile, the name and reputation of Spurs fans has been dragged through the mud. There has been an unprecedented level of coverage and outcry concerning Sunday's events - wholly out of proportion with any previous instance of alleged racism. It is more than a little ironic given that, more than any club's fans, Spurs fans have repeatedly been on the receiving end of genuine, vile racist abuse that has repeatedly received little to no media coverage.

So I believe that, given the evidence that I have supplied above and given the complete absence of any evidence pointing to anyone having directed monkey noises at Antonio Rudiger, Spurs and Spurs fans are owed an apology that is every bit as widely disseminated, loudly proclaimed and sincerely meant as the accusations and opprobrium that has rained down on us for the past few days. Antonio Rudiger should be presented with the facts as I saw them and asked if he hasn't, in fact, made an innocent mistake - albeit one that has had huge consequences. There can be no blame directed at him for such an innocent mistake so he should not feel afraid to admit it. Far better that than to stubbornly stick to his story without knowing, beyond doubt, that he genuinely heard what he thought he heard.

I could not be more aware that the fight to eradicate racism within football is of paramount importance. And I fully acknowledge that those charged with the running of clubs and the game more generally have a great responsibility to support players who are subject to racism. Rightly so. But I therefore suspect that, if no evidence of racism is found in this instance, the matter will be allowed to fade from public attention without further comment being made. And the stain of racist abuse will linger and taint the reputation of Spurs and Spurs fans henceforward. And that is not fair. And it does a disservice to the genuine fight against racism. I cannot and will not allow this to happen. I hope to see positive action from each of you to whom I have sent this email. If you wish to contact me for further discussion, please do so. If you wish to publish or use what I have written for further discussion elsewhere, you have my permission - so long as you do not edit it to alter its meaning in any way, however subtle. If nothing is done and if no evidence of racist behaviour is found and presented to the media, then I will have to consider what further action I (with the help of other Spurs fans) might have to take to make right the wrong that I believe has been done to Spurs fans.

Thank you all for taking the time to read the above. I hope that it has been of some help. I look forward to your responses and to whatever subsequent action you are able to take.

Happy Christmas!

Yours sincerely
 
The fact Lampard has already come out publicly to slate OUR fans... without ANY acknowledgement of HIS OWN clubs fans being amongst the most racist in the country speaks volumes!
The fact that a Chelsea fan has already been arrested foe a RACIST act tells you all you need to know....

Yes, every club has it's cunts...and Spurs have plenty...

But being called out for racism by Chelsea ranks of hypocrisy!
 
The fact Lampard has already come out publicly to slate OUR fans... without ANY acknowledgement of HIS OWN clubs fans being amongst the most racist in the country speaks volumes!
The fact that a Chelsea fan has already been arrested foe a RACIST act tells you all you need to know....

Yes, every club has it's cunts...and Spurs have plenty...

But being called out for racism by Chelsea ranks of hypocrisy!
This I definitely agree with.
 
The fact Lampard has already come out publicly to slate OUR fans... without ANY acknowledgement of HIS OWN clubs fans being amongst the most racist in the country speaks volumes!
The fact that a Chelsea fan has already been arrested foe a RACIST act tells you all you need to know....

Yes, every club has it's cunts...and Spurs have plenty...

But being called out for racism by Chelsea ranks of hypocrisy!
Vert already apologized to Rudiger without any conclusive evidence and called us idiots. When will a Chelsea player apologize to Son on behalf of his club?
 
I actually have called someoneone out for monkeying, but here in Spain, about 15 years ago.

A bunch of workmates were going to an Atleti-Osasuna cup game after work. Midweek games, especially Copa del Rey ones are poorly attended so I jumped in as I lived 10 mins walk from the (old) ground and you could pay on the door.

We were in the upper tier, lots of spaces, so we sat in a long line, me at the end. There was a bloke two rows down to my left, no one between us, there with his son who was about 8. The bloke was in his early 30s, 10-12 years younger than me at the time.

At that time, Osasuna had a load of African players, maybe 6 or 7 of the 11. It was an awful game, maybe the worst I've ever seen (ended a predictable 0-0), there was precious little to cheer or get excited about. So after 20 or so minutes the bloke below started monkeying every time a black Osasuna player was on the ball, which given the numbers was often. Our line of mates all started moaning amongst ourselves, but the final straw was when he got his son doing it too, showing him the gesture, the oo-oo-oo, patting him on the back when he did it. Without thinking I just decided enough was enough, went down one row and told the dad to stop, adding he should be ashamed of himself teaching his son to join in. God knows, I'm not hard, this bloke could have wiped the floor with me, but like I say, I was on autopilot.

His reaction was quite odd, he didn't say a thing but sort of hung his head. That was the last of it. I turned to go back up to my seat, my mates were all sat their, chins on their chests. Their reaction when I got back to my seat was like "fucking hell Bill, you must be mad, but Jesus, well done fella". I forgot to mention, we were 4 girls and one other lad who was weedier than me, we'd have had it if it had turned nasty and the racist bloke had mates or others just decided to bowl in against the fucking lippy foreigners.

I think I was probably lucky as the default reaction of most Spaniards isn't violence, plus I think he was gobsmacked that someone should take him to task. I told my missus later and her reaction was like that of my workmates, jesus, you must have been mad.

So I've done it once without thinking, I'd certainly think twice another time, either saying something, calling a steward (assuming they could be bothered) or filming it. Certainly in a high profile match where tempers are high in England, in a packed stand
 
Vert already apologized to Rudiger without any conclusive evidence and called us idiots. When will a Chelsea player apologize to Son on behalf of his club?
They won't.... ' cos Sonny didn't do a 'slitty eyed gesture' for the cameras to see...
He was too busy apologising for Rudiger's over reaction to his (admittedly) over reaction!
 
Lurker here, poster elsewhere.
Surprised this hasn't already been posted here.
(Copied from Glory Glory Can't get the photo to post here).



To all concerned,

There is a photograph taken at the Tottenham Hotspur stadium on Sunday of Antonio Rudiger, Harry Kane and the referee, Anthony Taylor, in discussion after the sending off of Heung Min Son. It appeared on both the Telegraph and Guardian website front pages. I post the link here:



In the stands, immediately behind Harry Kane's head, you can see a tall, rather angry looking, middle aged man pointing his finger in Antonio Rudiger's direction. That man is me. I begin with this revelation, for want of a better word, because I wish to establish that there can hardly have been more than half a dozen fans in the stadium who were closer to where Sunday's big talking point unfolded than me. I was probably less than twenty yards away.

And I am as convinced as it is possible to be that there was no racism directed at Antonio Rudiger. I could not be more certain that this unprecedented media storm is, in fact, the consequence of a huge misunderstanding on Antonio Rudiger's part. To be clear, please do not mistake my stance for that of someone who lightly dismisses or excuses racism; or for that of a fan incapable of objectivity and in denial about the possibility that racists exist within all clubs' fan bases. For me, the fight to eradicate racism in football far exceeds in importance and worthiness the desire to defend my club's reputation. I know that there are racists among all fan bases - Spurs included. And should I ever witness racism from Spurs fans, I would want the full force of the law to bear down on them.

So, to the events of Sunday afternoon and why I so wholeheartedly believe what I believe. By way of background, for what it's worth, I have no real argument with Son's sending off. He did make a slight, if aborted, move of his feet towards Rudiger as he tumbled. And such an action is likely to result in a red card. Nevertheless, that can't excuse Antonio Rudiger's reaction. Jose Mourinho said it best when he sarcastically wished the Chelsea defender a speedy recovery from the multiple broken ribs that he must have suffered. There is nothing more cowardly within football than feigning injury in order to get an opposition player sent off.

As English football fans are wont to do in such circumstances, thousands of us in the south stand chanted "cheat, cheat, cheat, cheat..." at Antonio Rudiger. It was at that specific moment that he turned and gestured angrily at us before going to his captain / the referee to complain about having been the target of monkey noises. When English is not your first language and when you are unfamiliar with English fan culture, 5000 or so English fans chanting "cheat, cheat, cheat...." at a fast tempo and unsynchronised could, I suspect, sound very much like monkey noises. The timing of Antonio Rudiger's angry gesture towards the fans and immediate subsequent discussions with his captain and the referee confirms that suspicion. The only alternative is that Antonio Rudiger is claiming that he heard a lone voice making monkey noises. And if that is the case, then I say that Antonio Rudiger is a liar. There is not the remotest chance that he could have isolated that lone voice above the nigh on identical sound of 5000 fans repeatedly shouting "cheat".

Of course, it is possible that, in a quieter moment, Antonio Rudiger heard this lone, racist voice. But no one else did. Nor could Spurs' and the police's forensic CCTV study of every fan in the crowd identify a guilty party. Besides, I am quite confident that the person to whom this lone voice belonged would have been quickly shopped - or at least shopped by now - if he existed. Spurs fans do not tolerate racism. So I can only conclude that this person does not exist. And since I have no reason to believe that Antonio Rudiger would lie about such a serious matter, the only remaining, plausible explanation that fits the facts is that he mistook chants of "cheat" for monkey noises. That's why he gestured angrily at fans in the south stand. He couldn't have been reacting to anything else.

In the meanwhile, the name and reputation of Spurs fans has been dragged through the mud. There has been an unprecedented level of coverage and outcry concerning Sunday's events - wholly out of proportion with any previous instance of alleged racism. It is more than a little ironic given that, more than any club's fans, Spurs fans have repeatedly been on the receiving end of genuine, vile racist abuse that has repeatedly received little to no media coverage.

So I believe that, given the evidence that I have supplied above and given the complete absence of any evidence pointing to anyone having directed monkey noises at Antonio Rudiger, Spurs and Spurs fans are owed an apology that is every bit as widely disseminated, loudly proclaimed and sincerely meant as the accusations and opprobrium that has rained down on us for the past few days. Antonio Rudiger should be presented with the facts as I saw them and asked if he hasn't, in fact, made an innocent mistake - albeit one that has had huge consequences. There can be no blame directed at him for such an innocent mistake so he should not feel afraid to admit it. Far better that than to stubbornly stick to his story without knowing, beyond doubt, that he genuinely heard what he thought he heard.

I could not be more aware that the fight to eradicate racism within football is of paramount importance. And I fully acknowledge that those charged with the running of clubs and the game more generally have a great responsibility to support players who are subject to racism. Rightly so. But I therefore suspect that, if no evidence of racism is found in this instance, the matter will be allowed to fade from public attention without further comment being made. And the stain of racist abuse will linger and taint the reputation of Spurs and Spurs fans henceforward. And that is not fair. And it does a disservice to the genuine fight against racism. I cannot and will not allow this to happen. I hope to see positive action from each of you to whom I have sent this email. If you wish to contact me for further discussion, please do so. If you wish to publish or use what I have written for further discussion elsewhere, you have my permission - so long as you do not edit it to alter its meaning in any way, however subtle. If nothing is done and if no evidence of racist behaviour is found and presented to the media, then I will have to consider what further action I (with the help of other Spurs fans) might have to take to make right the wrong that I believe has been done to Spurs fans.

Thank you all for taking the time to read the above. I hope that it has been of some help. I look forward to your responses and to whatever subsequent action you are able to take.

Happy Christmas!

Yours sincerely


Brilliant post Sir

Bravo and take a bow
 
Good morning chaps... merry Christmas Eve! So a day on and I'm expecting naming and shaming of all the Spurs fans who have now been clearly identified as racist bigots and screamed untold filth at Rudiger. What's that, no evidence AT ALL that spurs fans abused a black player? But we are racists, all the media and Uncle Tom Cobbly told us so yesterday. We even had fellow spurs supporters tell us to stop being racist and own up to the fact, here on TFC. If the allegations are eventually acknowledged as unsubstantiated will we receive apologies for all the grief and bad publicity?
There some good posters on here with decent points. Then some I disagree with but are fine, then others who are twats but are giving me pure jokes with the utter rubbish they are spilling..... But for sure no way ill get to the thousands dont worry lol
I think the biggest takeaway I have gotten from the recent racist accusations and events is that you lot over there (Europe in general not just the UK) are a strange lot. I get the connotation associated with the monkey chat, but it seems not just racist, but extremely childish and lazy.


So you're saying our racists need to grow up, get to the gym and start using the N word?

Hmmmmm
 
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