Jewish chronicle article on Spurs and the Y-Word

[Nutter-Naylor]

I know a good few Spurs fans hate the name,and won't use it.
Personally i love it.
I do wonder what Daniel's views are.He can't condone it obviously,and i can't see it being an attraction to any Jewish businesses looking to invest,naming rights etc.
I am talking ones that have no loyalty to Tottenham ,from abroad etc here

I am going to start a business called York Independent Dealer Services purely on the basis that when i make my fortune (rapidly running out of time) i can be the Spurs shirt sponsor. Could they stop me?

On that note, i have three acquaintances that LEGALLY changed their middle names to Yido/Yiddo (£9.99). No one in whatever government department that deals with it questioned them/raised any objection in the slightest.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

I know a good few Spurs fans hate the name,and won't use it.
Personally i love it.
I do wonder what Daniel's views are.He can't condone it obviously,and i can't see it being an attraction to any Jewish businesses looking to invest,naming rights etc.
I am talking ones that have no loyalty to Tottenham ,from abroad etc here

I know a small handful of Jewish Spurs employees, all of them love it. I've no idea if this is reciprocated higher up the corporate food chain, although without a doubt I agree with RocketRonny that at that level it's probably hurting business and they will wich this simply not an issue. (The was an interview with the Chairman of Ajax many years ago who basically said the same, whilst proud of their fans taking ownership it had caused the Club massive commercial problems and still does).

 

[RocketRonny]

I know a good few Spurs fans hate the name,and won't use it.
Personally i love it.
I do wonder what Daniel's views are.He can't condone it obviously,and i can't see it being an attraction to any Jewish businesses looking to invest,naming rights etc.
I am talking ones that have no loyalty to Tottenham ,from abroad etc here

Well I have to say it has quite a lot of appeal to US and Israeli Jews. When I was growing up literally no one supported Spurs and very few knew of the Jewish connection.
Several years ago with our emerging success they started doing pieces on it in the papers, and surprise surprise local spurs started surging.

I don't think Levy cares, he's also very loosely connected to the community (and UK Jews are less connected to the Judentum). I think he thinks in pounds, when he thought the next markets were in Asia he didn't like it but now when he's looking at America it's more appealing. Hence the club wishing happy Passover this year which up to not so long ago was unheard of.

 

[94Spurs94]

I know a good few Spurs fans hate the name,and won't use it.
Personally i love it.
I do wonder what Daniel's views are.He can't condone it obviously,and i can't see it being an attraction to any Jewish businesses looking to invest,naming rights etc.
I am talking ones that have no loyalty to Tottenham ,from abroad etc here

I'd bet good money he loves it. For a start he'd have known before ENIC invested. But also, I expect we'd have been thrown under the bus when our friends at the policy, the black lawyers etc launched their crusade if he personally found it distasteful. You'd have seen us partnering with Chelsea for videos on how ALL uses of the Yid word were awful, you'd have seen people kicked out over it regularly to set an example, we'd probably have been given cheesy song 'suggestions' to the same tune so that a minority would sign that and distort ("The thing I love most is Tottenham Hotspur!!"). The club took the minimum action it could given the legal and business climate, has never made any real effort to stop it, and went as far as publishing a poll that they knew would show the vast, vast majority of our Jewish fans did not find it offensive.

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

Ended up being harrassed by some SJW type on Twitter about this a while ago. It's obvious from my profile on there that I'm openly queer, and they asked how I'd feel if a load of mostly straight football fans decided to 'reclaim' faggot, poof or some such as a badge of pride. Obviously the answer was meant to be that I'd be pissed off to paint me as a hypocrite, but honestly I thought it'd be fucking brilliant. Brighton have a bit of an issue with being targeted with homophobia, albeit not on the same scale as the anti-Semitism we get, and I would absolutely love it if their fans responded with "The thing I love most is being a fag" - what a great way that'd be to dispell it, make their club a safer place for us, and hopefully improve things elsewhere too.

I've got to say I wouldn't feel comfortable bringing a boyfriend with me to a football game (including Spurs) to be honest, much in the same way as I know many Jews feel distinctly uncomfortable at West Ham or Chelsea. So the ever-offended types - please kindly bugger off, tackle the actual issue, or just shut it. You aren't helping and most of you frankly don't have a clue what it's like to walk in the shoes of a queer or a Jew. The thing I love most is being a Yid (and a fag!)

Excellent post.

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

Well I have to say it has quite a lot of appeal to US and Israeli Jews. When I was growing up literally no one supported Spurs and very few knew of the Jewish connection.
Several years ago with our emerging success they started doing pieces on it in the papers, and surprise surprise local spurs started surging.

I don't think Levy cares, he's also very loosely connected to the community (and UK Jews are less connected to the Judentum). I think he thinks in pounds, when he thought the next markets were in Asia he didn't like it but now when he's looking at America it's more appealing. Hence the club wishing happy Passover this year which up to not so long ago was unheard of.

A couple of times when i have been in Vegas i have had random Jewish americans start a conversation with me after they have seen my Spurs tattoos.They have all be very postitive about it (so far).

 

[RocketRonny]

I'd bet good money he loves it. For a start he'd have known before ENIC invested. But also, I expect we'd have been thrown under the bus when our friends at the policy, the black lawyers etc launched their crusade if he personally found it distasteful. You'd have seen us partnering with Chelsea for videos on how ALL uses of the Yid word were awful, you'd have seen people kicked out over it regularly to set an example, we'd probably have been given cheesy song 'suggestions' to the same tune so that a minority would sign that and distort ("The thing I love most is Tottenham Hotspur!!"). The club took the minimum action it could given the legal and business climate, has never made any real effort to stop it, and went as far as publishing a poll that they knew would show the vast, vast majority of our Jewish fans did not find it offensive.

they wouldn't collaborate with Chelsea as the club also fucking hates them, and they wouldn't try stopping the yid thing because they know it would result in a backlash with supporters and they already have a decent share of those...Like Ajax they simply decided to wash their hands from the topic and let others decide for them, which is a shame.

 

[RocketRonny]

A couple of times when i have been in Vegas i have had random Jewish americans start a conversation with me after they have seen my Spurs tattoos.They have all be very postitive about it (so far).

American and Israeli Jews are generally more outspoken about their identity, while European Jews and especially the brits are very much more traditional and don't like the attention (for obvious reasons).

 

[mouse]

Cheers fella!

Hadn't seen this before. Having looked at it I don't think I can tick any of the boxes. I can't put depends who I'm sat next to if I'm using the word. Or if I'm a recipient of hearing it I can't say depends on its context. I'm fucked.

Its reflective of the modern obsession with polarisation in an increasingly grey world.

Still it shows as you predicted (albeit using a relatively small sample size) the minority opinion is offended Jewish fans. But current perception on tolerance would have you believe that if one single Jewish fan feels marginalised by his fellow suporters singing the word then we should all stop.

For clarity i fall into the Jewish - Not Offended camp. I sing the word with passion whenever the opportunity arises. I pretty much stopped going to home games a long time ago, so I cant say I've been in the position where i would be consciously aware of a fellow supporter being uncomfortable with it.

If i'm completely honest my love of the tribalism that i get from going away with Spurs would probably overrule any obligation to stop singing it. Its about belonging ultimately. And if most supporters are honest, there are plenty of things that could be taken as offensive sung in pubs and on opposition concourses week in week out.

That doesn't excuse them - but there is a line, its incredibly blurry and its not clear whose job it is to position it.... but it is there.

 

[imitationleather]

They still have many Jewish fans. It's been said a few times before that we have "probably" as many Jewish fans as Woolwich, West Ham and Chelsea. How this is actually determined is totally beyond me but many a piece has been written claiming such.

This is something I've often thought about and it's interesting seeing it being discussed. Given London's immigration history there's no real reason that Spurs should have more Jewish fans than other clubs, and the anti-semitism seems to be related to a wider dislike of Tottenham Hotspur than just an issue with Jews. From what I can tell those three clubs do indeed have a large Jewish fanbase, and at West Ham and Chelsea they are extremely uncomfortable with the anti-semitism that occurs from their fans. It seems finally this is being raised by their own supporters and might actually be dealt with. Of course easily nothing whatsoever could happen, but it's encouraging to see Jewish Chelsea fans online saying they no longer want to put up with it.

An interesting thread here. It's good to read people actually talking about this in a way that's deeper than the superficial "We're reclaiming the term" explanation that's usually used to justify the chanting, which I think doesn't really excuse it or explain why it's become a necessary part of Spurs identity.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

This is something I've often thought about and it's interesting seeing it being discussed. Given London's immigration history there's no real reason that Spurs should have more Jewish fans than other clubs, and the anti-semitism seems to be related to a wider dislike of Tottenham Hotspur than just an issue with Jews. From what I can tell those three clubs do indeed have a large Jewish fanbase, and at West Ham and Chelsea they are extremely uncomfortable with the anti-semitism that occurs from their fans. It seems finally this is being raised by their own supporters and might actually be dealt with. Of course easily nothing whatsoever could happen, but it's encouraging to see Jewish Chelsea fans online saying they no longer want to put up with it.

An interesting thread here. It's good to read people actually talking about this in a way that's deeper than the superficial "We're reclaiming the term" explanation that's usually used to justify the chanting, which I think doesn't really excuse it or explain why it's become a necessary part of Spurs identity.

There are so many threads on this on this very forum, some very detailed, sorry for not posting the article to any of those, it was hard to determine what one to use but wanted to avoid yet another thread. If it interests you I highly recommend searching for some of them, especially those with Smoked Salmon 's views.

One of the many threads also had posted a long article written about the history of Jewishness of Spurs support and also how/why we have been gifted the title. I think it might have been by the author, Anthony Clavanne (Leeds Fan), of Does Your Rabbi Know You're Here?

 

[FOK]

What percentage of the match day going fan is actually Jewish? Less than 10%?

 

[Fidel Castro]

Really l was only aware of the Jewish connection when certain teams starting using it as a form of attack/hate in the 80s .
Spurs was always more muti cultural than most due to its location . Greek Cypriots , Maltese , West Indians , Southern Italians etc. ln my book Spurs was muti layered and the Jewish support was just another part of the frabic that made the club.
Yid if I'm being honest doesn't sound good , rather crude, as it's full of historical negatives . The club has always been 95 o/o Anglo Saxon . Personally the club would l gather like to get rid of it as it may effect their global marketing appeal .Never really liked the sound of the word but while others use it in hate then l stand united on it's use.
it is up to others to get their house in order.

 

[Admin]

I think this is the longest thread we have discussing this. Plenty of contributions from Smoked Salmon in there.

 

[mickdale]

This is something I've often thought about and it's interesting seeing it being discussed. Given London's immigration history there's no real reason that Spurs should have more Jewish fans than other clubs, and the anti-semitism seems to be related to a wider dislike of Tottenham Hotspur than just an issue with Jews. From what I can tell those three clubs do indeed have a large Jewish fanbase, and at West Ham and Chelsea they are extremely uncomfortable with the anti-semitism that occurs from their fans. It seems finally this is being raised by their own supporters and might actually be dealt with. Of course easily nothing whatsoever could happen, but it's encouraging to see Jewish Chelsea fans online saying they no longer want to put up with it.

An interesting thread here. It's good to read people actually talking about this in a way that's deeper than the superficial "We're reclaiming the term" explanation that's usually used to justify the chanting, which I think doesn't really excuse it or explain why it's become a necessary part of Spurs identity.

Language is fluid and always has been so now when we sing it means spurs in the context used. Therefore no need to excuse it and it is part of spurs identity.

 

[Wellsey]

In the 60s Alf Garnett of Tv show "Till death us do part" made numerous comment about Spurs Jewish links.
Martin Chivers can smoke a fag in the rain without it getting wet etc.
Ironic that Alf Garnett a West Ham fan in the show was in fact actor Warren Mitchell who was Jewish and a Spurs season ticket holder!!

 

[Legacy Lilywhite]

Yeah but I bet you’ll have a faaaking red logo wontcha!?



#willnotbuy

I am going to start a business called York Independent Dealer Services purely on the basis that when i make my fortune (rapidly running out of time) i can be the Spurs shirt sponsor. Could they stop me?

On that note, i have three acquaintances that LEGALLY changed their middle names to Yido/Yiddo (£9.99). No one in whatever government department that deals with it questioned them/raised any objection in the slightest.

 

[auspur]

There's a lot of talk about it affecting potential investments and all that meaning that the club might not like it, but if I'm not mistaken hasn't all the communication from the club, especially in recent years, strongly supported the fans and their use of the word whenever a recommendation or criticism like this comes out?

I don't think I've seen an official communication from the club saying they want us to stop, unless I'm mistaken, of course.

Anyway, it's probably been covered, but I'm in the camp that believes that shutting it down is not only naive, but really short-sighted. It hands the pejorative power that the word can have back into the hands of those that would use it to hurt.

Words are powerful, and reappropriation of words used to insult, belittle, mock and intimidate is one of the most effective ways to combat discrimination.

 

[LeeMcl]

What percentage of the match day going fan is actually Jewish? Less than 10%?

It won’t be anywhere near 10%.

Last Census ( 2011 ) recorded 269,568 Jewish people in the whole of the UK. To add some context to those numbers Polish born in the UK is estimated at 911,000 as of 2016. I recognise there is a debate here about national identity and religious identity, the numbers are here for context.

 

[TommyD123]

Signed petition.

The hypocrisy of baddiel still gets my blood boiling. I think a while back one of the guys on the pod likened it to blaming a rape victim for wearing too short a skirt and whilst that’s an extreme comparison I still think it’s apt!