Woolwich v Tottenham Hotspur 2/12/18

[palmers_green_yid]

I would agree that football and sport in general is a great outlet for tribal instincts.
It's just where you said you give him the benefit of the doubt just because he's a fellow yid. No other reason other than he supports spurs. Just imagine if everyone in every kind of group thought like this, the problems in society it would cause.

Yes you're right it would cause all kinds of problems. The same as, when I see an Woolwich fan on the tube I will instinctively dislike him/her intensely; if I felt that way about people who were another race/gender/sexuality from me I'd be a massive racist/misogynist/homophobe.

I just don't see the need to think along the lines of 'if I felt the way I do at football in other group contexts then that would be bad, therefore I'll try and change the way I feel at football'. I think it's fine to be one way at football and a different way in other contexts.

 

[scott]

From now on no man woman or child coming to a game should bring a banana to eat, all this bollocks as a result

Then there is no chance that in a moment of red mist the one thing an idiot picks up to throw won’t be a banana skin and we can all live happily ever after

I want these pricks on toast in the league cup, let’s win our next 7 league games against non top 6 as well

My bananas get bruised & battered bringing them straight back from Tesco. How do people take them to a crowded match day without doing the same. In case you forgot, Tesco is like your Walmart.

We have burnley at home on the saturday, Woolwich 4 days later & then everton away 4 days later.
I think we could manage to put out quite a strong team against Woolwich without it impacting the 2 league games either side too much. Beating them is good enough, but we would be stopping them win a trophy too!

 

[MVP]

Yes you're right it would cause all kinds of problems. The same as, when I see an Woolwich fan on the tube I will instinctively dislike him/her intensely; if I felt that way about people who were another race/gender/sexuality from me I'd be a massive racist/misogynist/homophobe.

I just don't see the need to think along the lines of 'if I felt the way I do at football in other group contexts then that would be bad, therefore I'll try and change the way I feel at football'. I think it's fine to be one way at football and a different way in other contexts.

This incident transcends football though, it's about whether someone was being racial or not.
It's not enough (for me anyway) to give someone the benefit of the doubt just because they support the same club as I do.

 

[sammyspurs]

This incident transcends football though, it's about whether someone was being racial or not.
It's not enough (for me anyway) to give someone the benefit of the doubt just because they support the same club as I do.

Without going over old ground, lots of people gave him the benefit of the doubt, not because he was Spurs, but because there was six people the skin was thrown towards.

This was explained in great detail to you yesterday. The photos proved this.

If a banana was aimed at just Aubameyang, while taking a corner I think the guy would have got a pasting, and no one on here would be defending that.

That is why I tried to show you that the Alves comparisons were pointless as the incidents were different.

 

[Clynelish]

Still talking about this triviality?

 

[Mick Cooper]

He could be Turkish Cypriot. If so he can't speak Greek.

Cyprus has loads of Turkish Cypriots who didn't go North when the place was invaded. Notwithstanding he was quoted as being a Greek Cypriot, so I am assuming that probably means that he speaks Cypriot Greek.

This quote was a big help

'I'm not racist. I'm actually a Greek Cypriot"

 

[MVP]

Without going over old ground, lots of people gave him the benefit of the doubt, not because he was Spurs, but because there was six people the skin was thrown towards.

This was explained in great detail to you yesterday. The photos proved this.

If a banana was aimed at just Aubameyang, while taking a corner I think the guy would have got a pasting, and no one on here would be defending that.

That is why I tried to show you that the Alves comparisons were pointless as the incidents were different.

Without going over old ground as well, I've explained why I disagree with this, I've seen or heard nothing since that would change my mind.

In fact the answers that the fella gives such as 'I'm a Greek Cypriot ' and 'I have been friends with black people all my life' make me even more suspicious.

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

Without going over old ground as well, I've explained why I disagree with this, I've seen or heard nothing since that would change my mind.

In fact the answers that the fella gives such as 'I'm a Greek Cypriot ' and 'I have been friends with black people all my life' make me even more suspicious.

How are you supposed to defend yourself when you are accused of racism? What exactly is the correct resonse to such accusations? If you say 'i have loads of black friends' people like you say that makes you even more likely to be one. Talk about a no win situation.

It wasn't your relatives passing judgement at the Salem witch trials was it? If they die on the ducking stool they were innocent, if they lived they were guilty and burned at the stake.

 

[sammyspurs]

Without going over old ground as well, I've explained why I disagree with this, I've seen or heard nothing since that would change my mind.

In fact the answers that the fella gives such as 'I'm a Greek Cypriot ' and 'I have been friends with black people all my life' make me even more suspicious.

But its fine to disagree, but you cant accuse people of defending him just because he´s a Spurs fan though.
Many have said the photos tell a different story, plus the reduced charges have given them reason to give him benefit of the doubt.

You might not agree, but you need to listen when people tell you its not just because he´s Spurs.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Players also have accountability. I know emotions run high in these fixtures but I have never understood why players feel the need to goad opposition supporters rather than celebrate with their own.

I know our players do it but I don't know why they do it, except to get a reaction. I have a degree of sympathy with any fan that reacts in the heat of the moment, I was pissed off when the penalty went in but was up at the TV effing and jeffing when their players started goading our support.

Agree..............BUT, If I was playing and scored against this lot, I'm going over to them, wanker signs the fucking lot, I doing a full Adebayor, I want to see the white of their eyes. I want to feed off their rage. I've actually had dreams of this very scenario.

 

[MVP]

How are you supposed to defend yourself when you are accused of racism? What exactly is the correct resonse to such accusations? If you say 'i have loads of black friends' people like you say that makes you even more likely to be one. Talk about a no win situation.

It wasn't your relatives passing judgement at the Salem witch trials was it? If they die on the ducking stool they were innocent, if they lived they were guilty and burned at the stake.

Depends on the situation, but being Greek Cypriot or the old I'm not racist because I have black friends is irrelevant.

 

[Airfixx]

How are you supposed to defend yourself when you are accused of racism? What exactly is the correct resonse to such accusations? If you say 'i have loads of black friends' people like you say that makes you even more likely to be one. Talk about a no win situation.

It wasn't your relatives passing judgement at the Salem witch trials was it? If they die on the ducking stool they were innocent, if they lived they were guilty and burned at the stake.

I once went to an exhibition thingy; including the movie Häxan (1922) - IMDb . I mean, it's stuff I was already aware of, but deeply disturbing none-the-less.

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

Depends on the situation, but being Greek Cypriot or the old I'm not racist because I have black friends is irrelevant.

So basically, if he says 'i am a racist' he obviously is one. If he says 'i am not a racist' you think he is one anyway. You have decided he is a racist and anything he says or any evidence to the contrary you believe to be irrelevent. You are the judge, juror & executioner. Nice.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

But there is evidence Mike Dean is anti-semetic.

In the only 2 matches he reffed he has awarded 3 penalties and a red card against Tottenham. In the last match he showed 6 yellow cards to Spurs while he allowed Woolwich substitutes to invade the pitch because Spurs scored a goal.

In the last minute of the match he gave a blatant dive to Xhaka which Harry Winks protested at the player who smirked. Dean often allowed the match to get out-of-control which upset Tottenham's calm play-style and that was his intention.

Mike Dean has been one of the worst officials over the years Spurs have had, even Poch picked on him once saying "Mike had an off day" (Poch never says anything about refs).

He can only be doing this because he is anti-semetic and Spurs' association with the Jewish faith is well-known.

Why don't the police investigate this "hate crime" against Tottenham??

Mate.

 

[MVP]

But its fine to disagree, but you cant accuse people of defending him just because he´s a Spurs fan though.
Many have said the photos tell a different story, plus the reduced charges have given them reason to give him benefit of the doubt.

You might not agree, but you need to listen when people tell you its not just because he´s Spurs.

Why not? You don't think people think like that at all?
I am taking note of what people have said however I'm still doubtful that some people would be defending him this much if he was a Chelsea or west ham.

 

[MVP]

So basically, if he says 'i am a racist' he obviously is one. If he says 'i am not a racist' you think he is one anyway. You have decided he is a racist and anything he says or any evidence to the contrary you believe to be irrelevent. You are the judge, juror & executioner. Nice.

I'm not a racist isn't a good enough defense. There have been lots of people that have said this when they are accused. Donald Trump also says he's not a racist, should people believe him just because he says so? Give him the benefit of the doubt?

 

[mikes01666]

How often has it happened that a coin has blinded a player? Has it ever happened? Seems to me a billion-to-one chance, and far more likely that a player or a fan would get an equivalently-serious injury in a goal celebration.

Well let's hand out coins at the turnstilest to chuck at the opposition!
Your argument is crazy. Just because there's a slight chance let's ignore that chance?
Anyone who throws objects on the pitch gets a life ban. Nice and simple. Put up signs at the turnstiles.

 

[mikes01666]

In a situation like this I will always give a fellow yid the benefit of the doubt.

What do you expect this half wit to say "yes, I'm a racist". Life ban. Tough. An example to everyone else.

 

[sammyspurs]

Why not? You don't think people think like that at all?
I am taking note of what people have said however I'm still doubtful that some people would be defending him this much if he was a Chelsea or west ham.

Probably some, but as I said, had a banana been directed soley at Aubameyang (which clearly wasnt the case) I doubt anyone here would defend him because he´s Spurs.

Everyone Ive read has said "if it turns out to be a racist incident, he deserves what he gets"..

The difference is that for some, the evidence points strongly towards a moment of madness and they believe the guy, and the police charge.
For others, the act itself is all that counts and they will never believe the guy isnt racist now and the police made a mistake.

 

[SchmoodSpur]

What do we do now if we hear Chelsea/West Ham hissing at us now?

Do we assume the benefit of the doubt?

Does anyone have an answer to this btw?

Because I sure as hell don't if we're to follow the new guidelines.