Spurs Youth 2018/19

[spurs9]

Good enough for what? For regular PL football? None. For a cameo? Loads are!

Good enough to challenge for a place in the 25 man squad. There is no point in giving a player a cameo if they aren't.

 

[White Van Jan]

WindyCOYS I don't think that's realistic, sadly, based on the past three years. Chances are we'll buy more players to fill those squad places, some of whom will be no better than Walker-Peters, Onomah, Edwards, Skipp etc

The chances are a lot lower imo that we'll automatically reach for the cheque book in the future. All evidence pointing to the stadium going massively over budget. We're lucky that there is a lot more TV money coming into the game now than when we specked out the NDP. But by itself it's not nearly enough. Can't see that we'd be buying the likes of GKN these days, who's not had many chances, or Sissoko, who has and has finally started showing form.

The Academy is very much Levy's baby, and has been a massive success, both for the fortunes that we've earned from the transfers of those not deemed able to make it with us, and the fortunes we've saved from those who have. Might well be his get out of jail card too.

As for the "we can get maybe 2 per year if we're lucky": surely it's more random than that. Some years we won't get any, but other years we might get a lot of good uns. Seems like the U18's could be a golden generation for us with a bit of luck.

 

[WindyCOYS]

He also brought through Mason.

WindyCOYS I don't think that's realistic, sadly, based on the past three years. Chances are we'll buy more players to fill those squad places, some of whom will be no better than Walker-Peters, Onomah, Edwards, Skipp etc

The chances are a lot lower imo that we'll automatically reach for the cheque book in the future. All evidence pointing to the stadium going massively over budget. We're lucky that there is a lot more TV money coming into the game now than when we specked out the NDP. But by itself it's not nearly enough. Can't see that we'd be buying the likes of GKN these days, who's not had many chances, or Sissoko, who has and has finally started showing form.

The Academy is very much Levy's baby, and has been a massive success, both for the fortunes that we've earned from the transfers of those not deemed able to make it with us, and the fortunes we've saved from those who have. Might well be his get out of jail card too.

As for the "we can get maybe 2 per year if we're lucky": surely it's more random than that. Some years we won't get any, but other years we might get a lot of good uns. Seems like the U18's could be a golden generation for us with a bit of luck.

I totally agree. But if we were planning on using the Academy to bulk up the squad whilst stadium financing is ongoing than we should have been integrating players for the past two years: we haven't done that.

 

[WindyCOYS]

Good enough to challenge for a place in the 25 man squad. There is no point in giving a player a cameo if they aren't.

It's a chicken or egg thing IMO. Some players may be adequate squad players but that won't be clear until they've had a chance.

As for those good enough to challenge the likes of Nkoudou for a place in the squad, I could reel off 10 names that I think could do as good a job.

 

[White Van Jan]

I totally agree. But if we were planning on using the Academy to bulk up the squad whilst stadium financing is ongoing than we should have been integrating players for the past two years: we haven't done that.

Absolutely. If he starts to integrate more in future it’ll be increasingly likely that he’s forced into it.

 

[spurs9]

It's a chicken or egg thing IMO. Some players may be adequate squad players but that won't be clear until they've had a chance.

As for those good enough to challenge the likes of Nkoudou for a place in the squad, I could reel off 10 names that I think could do as good a job.

But they would need to show a certain level in the U23s on a regular basis to get the chance to show it and i only think Skipp and Roles have, though we have some promising youngsters in the U18s that have done well in the few U23 games they have played, they just aren't there yet (which is to be expected).

I would say that the biggest problem our youngsters have is the squad has too many average players bulking up the squad. We really do need to trim the fat.

When you say challenge GKN for a place in the squad, do you mean in there respective positions or 10 wingers? If it's the latter, I'd like to see you name them.

 

[spurs9]

It's a chicken or egg thing IMO. Some players may be adequate squad players but that won't be clear until they've had a chance.

As for those good enough to challenge the likes of Nkoudou for a place in the squad, I could reel off 10 names that I think could do as good a job.

But they would need to show a certain level in the U23s on a regular basis to get the chance to show it and i only think Skipp and Roles have, though we have some promising youngsters in the U18s that have done well in the few U23 games they have played, they just aren't there yet (which is to be expected).

I would say that the biggest problem our youngsters have is the squad has too many average players bulking up the squad. We really do need to trim the fat.

When you say challenge GKN for a place in the squad, do you mean in there respective positions or 10 wingers? If it's the latter, I'd like to see you name them.

 

[WindyCOYS]

But they would need to show a certain level in the U23s on a regular basis to get the chance to show it and i only think Skipp and Roles have, though we have some promising youngsters in the U18s that have done well in the few U23 games they have played, they just aren't there yet (which is to be expected).

I would say that the biggest problem our youngsters have is the squad has too many average players bulking up the squad. We really do need to trim the fat.

When you say challenge GKN for a place in the squad, do you mean in there respective positions or 10 wingers? If it's the latter, I'd like to see you name them.

Ha! I meant the former, but I'd rather have seen any of the following brought on as a wide left player than GKN:

Bennett
Roles
Markanday
Sterling
Maghoma
And obviously Edwards.

But, like I say, I'd have rather any young player be brought on in any position rather than GKN getting more pointless minutes. I assume he was brought on as a financial reward for being patient or as a shop window opportunity.

Re: showing a certain level, I do have a problem with that given the state of the management of our U23s - some are doing well in spite of this, but it's definitely holding others back IMO.

 

[WindyCOYS]

I'm being accused on Twitter of being overly negative. I think it's worth pointing out that I have an unbelievable amount of positivity towards the academy (up to 2nd year level), but that it's what happens beyond that where the problem lies - people can bury their heads in the sand and ignore it, but it's an issue that exists and we can either acknowledge it, openly talking about possible reasons for it and repurcussions and whether we *really* care from a Spurs first-team perspective, or we can pretend it doesn't exist and keep saying that Pochettino brings young players through the Academy, which isn't true.

 

[White Van Jan]

Anyone else going to the U19s v PSV Tuesday?

 

[SausageVince]

Anyone else going to the U19s v PSV Tuesday?

you filthy little watcher

 

[SausageVince]

I'm being accused on Twitter of being overly negative. I think it's worth pointing out that I have an unbelievable amount of positivity towards the academy (up to 2nd year level), but that it's what happens beyond that where the problem lies - people can bury their heads in the sand and ignore it, but it's an issue that exists and we can either acknowledge it, openly talking about possible reasons for it and repurcussions and whether we *really* care from a Spurs first-team perspective, or we can pretend it doesn't exist and keep saying that Pochettino brings young players through the Academy, which isn't true.

I'm not sure the problem is with Poch.
I think players are getting too much too soon on a material level and this is impacting their attitudes. I'm thinking of Edwards as a prime example. Bags of talent, but appeared to be living the pro-footballer superstar life before really kicking a ball in anger for the first team. The humble youngsters do well, but keeping a young player's feet on the ground is difficult when the market dictates massive wages and film star treatment.

 

[Bill Madrid]

I'm being accused on Twitter of being overly negative. I think it's worth pointing out that I have an unbelievable amount of positivity towards the academy (up to 2nd year level), but that it's what happens beyond that where the problem lies - people can bury their heads in the sand and ignore it, but it's an issue that exists and we can either acknowledge it, openly talking about possible reasons for it and repurcussions and whether we *really* care from a Spurs first-team perspective, or we can pretend it doesn't exist and keep saying that Pochettino brings young players through the Academy, which isn't true.

I'm obviously guessing as I swerve Twitter but I'd imagine that the bulk of those being critical have scarcely been to see our yootdem

 

[WindyCOYS]

I'm not sure the problem is with Poch.
I think players are getting too much too soon on a material level and this is impacting their attitudes. I'm thinking of Edwards as a prime example. Bags of talent, but appeared to be living the pro-footballer superstar life before really kicking a ball in anger for the first team. The humble youngsters do well, but keeping a young player's feet on the ground is difficult when the market dictates massive wages and film star treatment.

I think that's a very generalised and sweeping statement that is very difficult to back-up. You have to understand these kids' backgrounds, motivations and family situations before making judgements like this.

In my opinion the solution is fairly simple: if Poch isn't going to use untested players he needs to send them out on loan so that they are no longer untested. We had some fantastic loan offers from exciting clubs over the summer for some of our youngsters and he personally vetoed them.

 

[SausageVince]

I think that's a very generalised and sweeping statement that is very difficult to back-up. You have to understand these kids' backgrounds, motivations and family situations before making judgements like this.

In my opinion the solution is fairly simple: if Poch isn't going to use untested players he needs to send them out on loan so that they are no longer untested. We had some fantastic loan offers from exciting clubs over the summer for some of our youngsters and he personally vetoed them.

Not really difficult to back up, if you take these players' social media activity as evidence. They all think they've made it, and no wonder when one can earn tens of thousands a week as a mere prospect.

I didn't know about Poch stopping loans. I personally think the SPL is a good place to blood our youth. We could fill Rangers' ranks with talent, for example. We've done it before. The relationship is there.

 

[Spursidol]

He also brought through Mason.

Mason is an odd one - he'd been on a few loans, and shone on a loan at Swindon (?) and then due to the WC or Euros was one of the few available CM's to take on Poch's first pre-season and looked very good until being injured at end of pre-season. Spurs were short of CM's and when Mason recovered he was drafted in to play alongside Capoue. Then of course some of the senior players Adebator, Kaboul backed up by the likes of Capoue were taking the piss and Mason with Kane called them out in the dressing room, Poch backed the youngsters and the rest is history.

So Mason was brought through due to a set of unusual circumstances, starting with so few CM's being available on pre-season due to injury and a WC ; it wasn't planned. But quite a few players come through due to circumstances like that.

Still doesn't alter my point that Poch inherited a squad with a number of academy players in it (or like Mason on the fringes of it), many of whom were sold off netting circa £100m to invest in players (so that's a success) whilst keeping some like Kane. Roll forward to today and Poch has not kept up the work of gradually getting a few home grown players into the squad over the last 3 years or so, so now we don't have too many in the squad or experienced enough to be on the fringes of it Which is why we currently are on the verge of having a problem with lack of players in the squaqd (as outlined in a previous post)

 

[WindyCOYS]

Not really difficult to back up, if you take these players' social media activity as evidence. They all think they've made it, and no wonder when one can earn tens of thousands a week as a mere prospect.

I didn't know about Poch stopping loans. I personally think the SPL is a good place to blood our youth. We could fill Rangers' ranks with talent, for example. We've done it before. The relationship is there.

Think of your Facebook. Do you have friends who you know are miserable that present themselves as having the most amazing lives? I certainly do.

Now take into account the age of these players, potentially their intellectual capacity (given they've probably focussed on sport rather than school - a generalisation on my part there, admittedly) and how they're living in a bit of a bubble.

 

[SausageVince]

KWP is the only one I'm disappointed for in our academy as he could have got alot more minutes than he has. But every club thinks their youth team is good and producing top level talent. Bias clouds judgement, of course.

Edwards' attitude clearly isn't right if he's failing to get minutes at a Championship club. Hopefully the move to Holland does him a world of good.

Onomah was garbage whenever he played for us (regardless of his position) and can barely nail down a starting place in his 'preferred' position at Championship clubs.

Carter-Vickers is another who is no where near good enough for us. Another who was physically better and bigger than most at a youth level which helps. But when it comes to men's football? Simply no where near the level required at Spurs. I mean Foyth, who was cheap by modern day transfer standards, is literally 10x the player.

If we are lucky, we should make a good amount of money on these players though.

Now Skipp. Now we're talking. Glad he got minutes yesterday. Was nice to see Marsh on the bench, but there's another one who'll be playing lower league football in a year or twos time.

You can't get to Spurs' first team on talent alone. It's not a surprise that Kane and Winks are the ones who have broke through. Two hard working guys willing to improve, 100% committed to what their coach wants and taking their opportunity (Same could be said of Mason at the time too)

I think KWP is just unlucky he has two experienced international footballers ahead of him. In both positions really. As I have no doubt he has the same mindset as Kane and Winks. Poch is just preaching loyalty to Trippier and probably doesn't want to cut his losses with Aurier as their is a player there.

Don't watch too much of our academy to know the next big things coming through below Skipp but they are young. Let them flourish. Let them learn. They are kids and they have about 5 years before they're likely to even to be considered for starting places in this team. If they don't want to wait and want everything now now now, then they'll likely be off. Not everyone can be a Jaden Sancho and it's very likely no one in our academy is on that level.

Llorente, NKoudou, Wanyama, Alderweireld, Vorm, Dembele will all be gone in the summer. So hopefully that is where the likes of Skipp, Foyth and maybe another youngster can get there squad place. Hopefully a motivated Edwards, though it's probably likely he'll want out as soon as he's back.

Fully agree

 

[SausageVince]

Think of your Facebook. Do you have friends who you know are miserable that present themselves as having the most amazing lives? I certainly do.

Now take into account the age of these players, potentially their intellectual capacity (given they've probably focussed on sport rather than school - a generalisation on my part there, admittedly) and how they're living in a bit of a bubble.

Agreed, but my point is that the ones capable of resisting the stardom pitfalls tend to do well.

 

[Spursidol]

Agreed, but my point is that the ones capable of resisting the stardom pitfalls tend to do well.

Can't disagree with that statement to some extent.

But I suspect Jaden Sancho last year would have looked at ManCity as not resisting stardom and demanding too much, such as starts at ManCity which the club wre unwilling to agree to. Sancho decided he wasn't going to wait, backed himself to succeed and has done that in Spades in Germany.

A couple of years ago Oliver Burke backed himself in a similar way - but it didn't work out for him and he's back in the UK at WBA as a fringe player (and similarly with Scotland where bigger things were expected of him).

However many youngsters will only think of the Sancho example. And its also a very common theme amongst a lot of youngsters to think they get everything 'now' (possibly as the first social media generation where things do happen 'now').

So its a problem for all managers, Poch included, to deal with youth aspirations - its been true for probably 30 odd years, just seems more difficult now.

But the challenge for Poch, remains how to get the best of the Academy motivated to become at least squad players for Spurs - or from time to time a genuine star.