Mauricio Pochettino

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The strategy of the club is clearly to raise the profile of the club with high league finishes and regular CL football. It’s what gets you noticed, it helps player recruitment, it brings in money to help compete with richer clubs, sponsors want to be associated with you, it’s fun winning games every week, it’s great to be playing Real Madrid in front of 85,000 fans - I could go on, but none of that would happen if the club prioritised the cups.

Football has moved on. Remember playing in front of 20,000 people at the Lane? I do, and this is better.
Being horribly cynical - can anyone imagine Daniel Levy being that fucked off with being out of the league cup? The manner of the defeat, of course, but I wouldn't be shocked (in fact, I probably think this is the case) if Levy and Pochettino have discussed this previously and have an 'understanding' as to what we're prioritising here.

Is it 'glorious'? No. But we're not playing on a FIFA save, expecting to win the quadruple.
 
It’s says nothing about that tournament and everything about how our success has been limited to one competition. I’m intrigued to know how many more years or decades have to pass without silverware before it becomes acceptable to question the strategy the club has employed?
The strategy that has gotten us to 6 FA Cup Semi-Finals since we last won it. That strategy that has gotten us to 2 Kangaroo cup semi-finals and FIVE Finals winning two of them in the same period. Have a word with yourself.
 
Being horribly cynical - can anyone imagine Daniel Levy being that fucked off with being out of the league cup? The manner of the defeat, of course, but I wouldn't be shocked (in fact, I probably think this is the case) if Levy and Pochettino have discussed this previously and have an 'understanding' as to what we're prioritising here.

Is it 'glorious'? No. But we're not playing on a FIFA save, expecting to win the quadruple.

Poch already said what we’re prioritising and he copped a load of flak along the lines of ‘Spurs look down on cups’ and other stuff. It’s what every club prioritises - he was only being honest.
 
The strategy that has gotten us to 6 FA Cup Semi-Finals since we last won it. That strategy that has gotten us to 2 Kangaroo cup semi-finals and FIVE Finals winning two of them in the same period. Have a word with yourself.
We also shouldn't forget that we need to build the team/earnings/profile of the club up to a point where we can be going for everything in sight. We're fucking great, but still on that improvement curve where league placement is absolutely essential. Champions League is an interesting one because we'd be a looooooong shot to win the damn thing, but an impressive European campaign is a great way to get the eyes of the world on Spurs and be taken seriously. We got complacent in our group last season, but have clearly rectified that this year.

As I mentioned before, if you're Man City then the only thing you need to worry about it trying to actually attract more plastic fans, and go balls out for every competition you're in - and we don't really have that luxury.

Calculated gamble last night that backfired (though really should have worked).

Poch already said what we’re prioritising and he copped a load of flak along the lines of ‘Spurs look down on cups’ and other stuff. It’s what every club prioritises - he was only being honest.
Absolutely. Considering how vague/guarded Poch can be in press conferences, it was a big-ass hint in terms of the way he described last night's fixture in the pre-match press conference. Dare I say it, I think the 'maybe Kane was injured' was a bit of misdirect to avoid a backlash for deciding to omit him from the squad.
 
Absolutely. Considering how vague/guarded Poch can be in press conferences, it was a big-ass hint in terms of the way he described last night's fixture in the pre-match press conference. Dare I say it, I think the 'maybe Kane was injured' was a bit of misdirect to avoid a backlash for deciding to omit him from the squad.

This is very likely tbh.
 
We also shouldn't forget that we need to build the team/earnings/profile of the club up to a point where we can be going for everything in sight. We're fucking great, but still on that improvement curve where league placement is absolutely essential. Champions League is an interesting one because we'd be a looooooong shot to win the damn thing, but an impressive European campaign is a great way to get the eyes of the world on Spurs and be taken seriously. We got complacent in our group last season, but have clearly rectified that this year.

As I mentioned before, if you're Man City then the only thing you need to worry about it trying to actually attract more plastic fans, and go balls out for every competition you're in - and we don't really have that luxury.

Calculated gamble last night that backfired (though really should have worked).


Absolutely. Considering how vague/guarded Poch can be in press conferences, it was a big-ass hint in terms of the way he described last night's fixture in the pre-match press conference. Dare I say it, I think the 'maybe Kane was injured' was a bit of misdirect to avoid a backlash for deciding to omit him from the squad.
It wasn't a gamble mate. He put out a far stronger team than anyone on here even expected, I've never seen us so comfortable in a game (first half). I don't know what happened 2nd half other than we thought we got it won and thought we could win whilst in 2nd gear to conserve energy.
 
Talented team, great football, one concentrating on the tournaments that we unlikely to win over the ones we can and of course no silverware to show for it. Yeah crazy analogy no comparison at all is there.

Yes, that is a crazy analogy. In 2010-11, which is arguably the best season all around considering the number of cups we were in and placement, as well as, league position, I still think it's crazy.

We had a talented squad, but I don't see any relevant comparison between then and now. We had 2-3 unbelievably gifted players and a number of other role players who were punching above their weight. We are far more balanced now than we were at the time.

As for the cups, would you really have liked us to have gotten knocked out in the group stages of the CL because we had less of a chance in lieu or taking a run at the league cup? Is this what you are saying?
 
It wasn't a gamble mate. He put out a far stronger team than anyone on here even expected, I've never seen us so comfortable in a game (first half). I don't know what happened 2nd half other than we thought we got it won and thought we could win whilst in 2nd gear to conserve energy.
A gamble, perhaps, in not including Kane at all (maybe he had a knock, or maybe it was because of flying around to go to that awards do, I don't know), starting Foyth, and starting (and giving the armband to) Vorm. But I appreciate what you mean in terms of strength vs. the strength we all anticipated as fans.

Very frustrating that this game came before Lamela and Wanyama return. Would have made an enormous difference to have them as options.

Ironically, a couple of the big name players beginning to tire from all their recent playing time could have been one of the factors that scuppered us in the second half. Would also point out that Poch should have been more proactive in making substitutions when the tide was clearly beginning to turn in West Ham's favour. Not sure if he was off having a piss when we conceded though (couldn't see him on the touchline).
 
I remember when we were Spurs. Nothing to worry about. A cup team. Nothing else.
Some people now want it all, and on a budget way below.
Not even Man City can win every trophy.
Or Man U.
Chelsea are finding it hard to compete playing every 3 days. Listen to Conte. They have more quality in their depth.

Of course it would be nice to win a cup.
However with our squad, and don’t buy into the media hype that we suddenly now have one with both depth and quality, it would be hard for us to win any cup, compete in the CL and the PL.
Simple as.
We lost a game of football. To Wet Ham. We rarely lose a game nowadays. Get over it.
It’s nice to win a trophy, of course. It depends on the draw and a bit of luck.
Yet it’s not the same today as it was 20yrs ago.
The CL and EL have seen to that.
There are more games in these competitions.
You don’t play two legs of KO’s which could see you compete in all 3 competitions you are in.

Look at the finalists of the last 15 FA cups and who’s been in them.
Wigan
Palace
Villa
Hull
Stoke
Portsmouth
Everton
Cardiff
Millwall
Southampton
Have taken part

Apart from Wigan and Portsmouth the winners have been from the old sky 4 and City once.
Basically the same with the league cup
Why is that. Is it becuase those smaller teams can go all out and the others compete in CL and league and still be strong/get good draws.

This is a project. The aim is to be a CL club who have a stadium worthy of a top club. Then to attract and pay the top quality players to be able to compete on all fronts.
It’s not to win an League or FA cup at all costs. We can try.
 
A gamble, perhaps, in not including Kane at all (maybe he had a knock, or maybe it was because of flying around to go to that awards do, I don't know), starting Foyth, and starting (and giving the armband to) Vorm. But I appreciate what you mean in terms of strength vs. the strength we all anticipated as fans.

Very frustrating that this game came before Lamela and Wanyama return. Would have made an enormous difference to have them as options.

Ironically, a couple of the big name players beginning to tire from all their recent playing time could have been one of the factors that scuppered us in the second half. Would also point out that Poch should have been more proactive in making substitutions when the tide was clearly beginning to turn in West Ham's favour. Not sure if he was off having a piss when we conceded though (couldn't see him on the touchline).
IMO all things completely irrelevant to the result. We've won many games without Kane, (didn't need him in first half). BTW Kane was tired and was cramping, so rested, completely understandable given the two monumental shifts he put in in Madrid and Liverpool, in fact would have been stupid to play him. Foyth was absolute quality last night best player on the pitch. Don't get the armband relevance and how that contributed to losing and even with Lamela and Wanyama returning wouldn't have changed the difference from first half to second half performances, by the same token we had Rose returning and Dembele.
 
Speaking to a West Ham fan today struck me the mindset we now have.

I’m not even thinking about not qualifying for the CL. I’m my mind we’re challenging for the League.
And yeah Top 4 is not guaranteed but if you’re aiming for 1st you’re going to be in the mix for Top 4.

West Ham on the other hand see this as their best chance to get European football.

We are so far apart in our expectations.

Thanks to Poch.
 
IMO all things completely irrelevant to the result. We've won many games without Kane, (didn't need him in first half). BTW Kane was tired and was cramping, so rested, completely understandable given the two monumental shifts he put in in Madrid and Liverpool, in fact would have been stupid to play him. Foyth was absolute quality last night best player on the pitch. Don't get the armband relevance and how that contributed to losing and even with Lamela and Wanyama returning wouldn't have changed the difference from first half to second half performances, by the same token we had Rose returning and Dembele.
Completely irrelevant? If we'd started Lloris, for example, I believe we'd have been more cohesive at the back and not crumbled to concede those three goals. But we started Vorm, which we've come to expect when rotating for a cup we don't prioritise.

I like Foyth, and I'm not knocking him. But starting him in this match is an indication of how seriously we take the game.

You also didn't address my suggestion that our players were likely tired from our recent density of matches (which I think was significant in that second half). Regarding Kane's absence, there has been a bit of vagueness about it, and I'd be very interested to know if he was actually unavailable or whether it was a calculated rest to keep him fresh for Saturday.

Oh - and if we had Lamela and Wanyama fit, the squad rotation would be a lot more smooth and the minutes could be shared more evenly. Lamela's tenacity is something that would have been invaluable last night when we started to take our foot off the gas.
 
Completely irrelevant? If we'd started Lloris, for example, I believe we'd have been more cohesive at the back and not crumbled to concede those three goals. But we started Vorm, which we've come to expect when rotating for a cup we don't prioritise.

I like Foyth, and I'm not knocking him. But starting him in this match is an indication of how seriously we take the game.

You also didn't address my suggestion that our players were likely tired from our recent density of matches (which I think was significant in that second half). Regarding Kane's absence, there has been a bit of vagueness about it, and I'd be very interested to know if he was actually unavailable or whether it was a calculated rest to keep him fresh for Saturday.
No evidence whatsoever to support this mate. Vorm is an excellent keeper. Adrian, who is hated by the majority of West Ham (and has openly been stating he doesn't want to be at their club) pulled off 3 fine saves, go figure???? What is totally irrelevant is suggesting if a different player was fielded it would have meant a different result. Only time there is any justification to this is if said player was dogshit, i.e. had played dogshit in the past, never played well for us. Everyone that was selected to play has proven themselves to be worthy of selection with the exception of Foyth.
But Foyth was excellent as he was against Barnsley the previous occasion we've seen him. If he was selected to play against Real Madrid I wouldn't shit the bed. Just like starting Winks against them last week, Winks proved his selection worthy and now Foyth is doing exactly that.

Tired - There is no way to measure this from the stands other than with eyes and I saw no evidence of this other than possibly Rose was no longer making runs with the same intensity, if this was the case then it wasn't from being over played, it was because he hasn't played enough. Sisokko was still running right up to the final whistle. Up front key players who were holding the ball up well and were laying it off from all angles in first half (Llorente, Son) were completely unable to do that 2nd half, WH were no longer sitting off them was the difference.

Kane - see the Kane thread he was rested, nothing vague about it. Very deliberate, he was shagged after about 80mins on Sunday, maybe should have come off then, but that would no doubt have been made a thing yet again as nasty Poch denies Kane a hat trick.
 
No evidence whatsoever to support this mate. Vorm is an excellent keeper. Adrian, who is hated by the majority of West Ham (and has openly been stating he doesn't want to be at their club) pulled off 3 fine saves, go figure???? What is totally irrelevant is suggesting if a different player was fielded it would have meant a different result. Only time there is any justification to this is if said player was dogshit, i.e. had played dogshit in the past, never played well for us. Everyone that was selected to play has proven themselves to be worthy of selection with the exception of Foyth.
But Foyth was excellent as he was against Barnsley the previous occasion we've seen him. If he was selected to play against Real Madrid I wouldn't shit the bed. Just like starting Winks against them last week, Winks proved his selection worthy and now Foyth is doing exactly that.

Tired - There is no way to measure this from the stands other than with eyes and I saw no evidence of this other than possibly Rose was no longer making runs with the same intensity, if this was the case then it wasn't from being over played, it was because he hasn't played enough. Sisokko was still running right up to the final whistle. Up front key players who were holding the ball up well and were laying it off from all angles in first half (Llorente, Son) were completely unable to do that 2nd half, WH were no longer sitting off them was the difference.

Kane - see the Kane thread he was rested, nothing vague about it. Very deliberate, he was shagged after about 80mins on Sunday, maybe should have come off then, but that would no doubt have been made a thing yet again as nasty Poch denies Kane a hat trick.
To each their own. I thought the players looked tired - though of course we'll never have an actual quantifiable metric to prove if this was the case or not.

To clarify, I'm not suggesting things out of anger - more my honest thoughts on the match in retrospect. I know Saturday matters so much more now than an autopsy of last night (and indeed less than reading my copy of Poch's book that just arrived from Amazon).
:allitongue:

Europa League yes, but not the League Cup.
Fair. Though I put the two together in terms of how much priority Poch has shown towards both (they were also quite continuous in terms of where the additional matches United had to play were scheduled).
 
The strategy of the club is clearly to raise the profile of the club with high league finishes and regular CL football. It’s what gets you noticed, it helps player recruitment, it brings in money to help compete with richer clubs, sponsors want to be associated with you, it’s fun winning games every week, it’s great to be playing Real Madrid in front of 85,000 fans - I could go on, but none of that would happen if the club prioritised the cups.

Football has moved on. Remember playing in front of 20,000 people at the Lane? I do, and this is better.
The prioty of the majority modern clubs is to increase their revenue stream, it is why most are obsessed with the CL. The actual reality is that this has little bearing on a club of our standing. It doesn’t enable us to retain our best players, it doesn’t enable us to sign ones, it doesn’t enable us to become an elite club. Even with CL revenues those clubs capacity is still significantly above ours. The real presence globally is derived from consistent success at the highest level and we do not have the means to do that. And this current level isn’t sustainable, we have seen the reality of our postion with other clubs of simulator standing such as A Madrid, Dortmund and Monaco. But seemingly most in the supporter base won’t accept that reality, they will with othe clubs but not there own. We need to capitalise on this postion whilst we have this, we failed to do this with the Redknapp side and so far we following the approach as before so why would the outcome be any different to last time? I am acutely aware the game has moved on, aware that in many ways it has been for the worse especially when you have large number of supporters who are more concerned with status than they are with silverware.
 
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The strategy that has gotten us to 6 FA Cup Semi-Finals since we last won it. That strategy that has gotten us to 2 Kangaroo cup semi-finals and FIVE Finals winning two of them in the same period. Have a word with yourself.

So the club has gone from one that consistently used win Cup tournaments to one that now has consistent cup runs and doesn’t win anything and you herald this has some sort of achievement. Brilliant.
 
So the club has gone from one that consistently used win Cup tournaments to one that now has consistent cup runs and doesn’t win anything and you herald this has some sort of achievement. Brilliant.

The club is focussing on bigger and better competitions. Showing a bit of ambition rather than fobbing off the fanbase with the odd cup here and there.
 
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