Where did this all go wrong ?

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I watched Harlequins v Leinster in the rugby earlier. Harlequins had lost 3 games on the bounce, and the captain, Nick Easter, took all the players away on a Sunday for a social and a team meeting. No coaches or managers, just the players. They basically said enough is enough, we sort this out now. They beat Leinster today and Easter was man of the match.

Can you imagine anyone in the Spurs team doing this? Or if they did, how many of the players would show up?
 
sammyspurs said:
What a load of fucking bollocks...half the squad have been playing like they dont give a fuck for over a year. And in that year we've had 3 managers.

You think the fans caused that?

The fans reaction is due to the predictably shit situation we have found ourselves in. Again.

You want to blindly back whats going on and jump about applauding with wild delight when players turn their backs in a challenge, then go ahead.
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Hardly.

I have no time for instant-gratification demanding, entitled whiners who are happy to complain because they think they have a right to Champions League every year. Football is real life for the participants, not a diversion. Real life is hard and complicated. We had a good team. It fell apart for a variety of reasons. We tried to rebuild. It didn't work out. We're trying to rebuild again. That will take time if it is to succeed. In the mean time we will have some good days and bad ones. Throwing a wobbly over a mediocre game changes nothing, and affects nothing. Fans don't matter to the process. We're passengers to the actual football. And the football will only change fitfully, over weeks. Not in minutes during a weekend. So asking where things went wrong, and claiming it's a disaster are short-sighted because they're demands for real life to conform to personal fantasies. Real life doesn't work that way.
 
I can't believe the hypocrisy here. Why are we not a top 4 EPL club anymore. When have we ever been a top 4 club in the EPL?
We have only been a top 4 EPL club 2 times since the EPL was formed. Who was it under, ENIC. Who do we want out because we are not a top 4 club anymore, ENIC.
We have done that whilst building a state of the art training facility.
Not a mention to who we want in as long as they can spend lot's of money on great players, pay them all £150k a week and get Pep Guardiola to take over on 15m a year.

Sugar championed the breakaway league (EPL) and he was the only Chairperson of a 'big 5' club to vote in favour of Sky's bid for the TV rights.
So when we talk about the EPL & Sky 4 remember that Sugar was at the forefront of the EPL, along with Dien, and championed SKY tv. So, where did that all go wrong? Others were looking ahead whilst he was making dough.
You forget that Chelsea, who get 5,000 more than us when full, have had a massive injection of unlimited funds. Man City were given a new stadium which holds 12,000 more than ours (which they can't fill) and then got a massive injection of funds. Nobody can compete with the financial power of Man U. Woolwich have the 2nd biggest turnover, yet fail to finish 2nd and yet Man city and Chelsea have bigger wage bills.
FFS, we do fucking well considering the size of our stadium (the 10th biggest) amount of manager we have had.We have the 6th largest wage bill and 6th largest income.


Let's get some reality here ffs. It is only since 2006 that we have been consistently there or thereabouts in the EPL, barring 2007/8 and 2008/9 when we won the LC and were runners up respectively.
We have broken the top 4 x 2 under ENIC which is an achievement, and we finished above Liverpool 4 years on the trot. If not for Fulop and Lasagne we may have fared better!!
It took Man City getting the Sheik to do that.

Since the first time I went Spurs in 1969 to the inception of the EPL we had finished in the top 4 6 times - when only 1st got you into the European cup and there wasn't any money for being runner up, 3rd or 4th -Thats six times in about a quarter of a century.
We have never been genuine title contenders in my time. We have always been inconsistent in the league.
I have had some great times though. The Div 2 comeback, 4 Cup finals (2 replays), 6 League cup finals, and a UEFA cup final.

The Chavs have had the Russian's dough, but even they were finishing higher than us in the EPL in the 5 seasons before ENIC took over. Abromovich took them on.
We coat Chavs and City, but do we want the same?
ENIC have their faults but we cannot pay the wages of top players, and today wages have a strong correlation with league position. Our ticket prices are high to fund wages that would attract any kind of international quality players. Forget signing most of the names we are linked to or want. It's impossible.
Ever wondered why our ticket prices are higher than Chavs and City's and they manage to keep theirs so low?
I wonder where we'd be if we lowered them. We couldn't sign anyone of note.
Levy has done some great things and some not so great.
MP has been brought in with a focus on self sustainability as we have tough times ahead as we have had to buy land and build a new stadium with our own money.



As for the new stadium. statements like 'wasting 2 years on the OS' don't make sense to me. As far as I remember we had no backing or guarantees from local government for building a new stadium at our club site. We only got that backing after Duggan got shot and the riots that ensued.
I could see his point. It was 5 odd miles away. The East London thing grated on me. However, I live in East London and I'm in N.1.
Also, E.17 is just across the way from N.17 What if they would have found land in Walthamstow?
We would have had built our own football stadium and have had a superb infrastructure. Probably would have taken less time for me to get there than it does for me to get to WHL now. The transition would have been seamless too. However, it was in Stratford.

This stadium bollocks should have been thought of long before. When you think Woolwich proposed to move to Ashburton in 1999 you have to ask what the previous owners were thinking.
Sugar's involvement in buying land when at Spurs included Berry and Lyndhurst/Saxilby.
Berry was part the consortium that tried to buy out Spurs. in 1991 ( when there were rumours of us expanding) one of Berry's private companies (Saxilby Ltd) borrowed money from Landhurst Leasing to buy land (31 paxton road and land behind premises in the high road) with a fixed charge on the land. Landhurst went into receivership and was investigated by SFO. Berry went on to become del chairman under Sugar. Saxilby Ltd was a 'directors retirement benefit plan' who's trustee's included Berry and his wife. Luckily Berry's creditors didn't get a claim on that land. Conveniently, he paid up half his loan and got the fixed charge was released just before Landhurst leasing went into receivership. The witness on the memorandum of satisfaction, Douglas Alexiou.
Edenote, the company Venebles used to buy into Spurs with Sugar, also borrowed money to do so from the fraudulent finance company Landhurst Leasing.
FFs, let's remember what chairman/owners were taking money out of the club and bumming us. Why were the owners not thinking about a new stadium site pre ENIC.

When ENIC took over I remember Buchler saying it was imperative that the capacity was increased to 44,000 for us to compete and that preliminary planning permission had been granted to renovate the East Stand.
However, to increase the capacity by 8k we would have to lose the revenue of over 10,000 seats/boxes over a year and half (conservatively) and for a cost of about £150m. ENIC have been buying land since 2005.
Anyway, we have all got what we want now. A new stadium where we already are. So, let's not moan about it taking time. We only just got the CPO. If it could have been built in Tottenham and quicker it would have been.
We have had our troubles getting cooperation from Local government, them the CPO -which took 3 times longer than most - and now with Archway steel.

Let's get a grip. Liverpool have won the title 18x but never the EPL. They have only finished in the top 4 once since 2009/10. Where did that all go wrong?
Against Palace in the EPL we have played them 10x, won 4, Drawn 4 and lost 2.
At HOME we have drawn against them 4 times (inc yesterday) and lost once. So why we are expected to roll them over at HOME is beyond me.
 
Looking at the finances (revenue, wage structure, spending power etc) we should be the 6th best side in the league. At the moment I'd say we are around 10th best so we are underachieving (not just in terms of current league table, I think we will finish around 10th). Also, as mentioned, there are no really entertaining players in the Ginola mould in the current team. There are a lot of foreign journeymen type players who I feel little connection with, as well as a lot who don't appear to be giving close to 100%. Getting Mason, Bentaleb and Kane in the team has been an improvement in this sense, though. We also sold some good players such as Dawson and Siggy who would improve our squad if they were still here, and who were replaced by worse players.

I'd say Baldini is mostly to blame for this. Going back further I think Levy is to blame for firing managers too quickly- especially with Harry. And I would blame Levy/ENIC for not strengthening more in successive January transfer windows when one quality signing would have almost certainly guaranteed us top four. Even within their spending plans, and considering Lewis' refusal to spend his own money on the club, it would have been worth spending an extra £10-20m then, with the idea that it could be got back in the summer through not spending or even selling players, had we not reached the CL.

But I think we should be thinking in terms of top 6- not top 4- considering all the financial stuff which determines so much. I think the sooner we (as fans) accept that we have no right to be realistically hoping to be a top four side each year, the better. I think it's good also to think of our CL qualification and run to the quarter finals as a great achievement in itself rather than a missed opportunity not to do more.
 
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DeeGee said:
I can't believe the hypocrisy here. Why are we not a top 4 EPL club anymore. When have we ever been a top 4 club in the EPL?
We have only been a top 4 EPL club 2 times since the EPL was formed. Who was it under, ENIC. Who do we want out because we are not a top 4 club anymore, ENIC.
We have done that whilst building a state of the art training facility.
Not a mention to who we want in as long as they can spend lot's of money on great players, pay them all £150k a week and get Pep Guardiola to take over on 15m a year.

Sugar championed the breakaway league (EPL) and he was the only Chairperson of a 'big 5' club to vote in favour of Sky's bid for the TV rights.
So when we talk about the EPL & Sky 4 remember that Sugar was at the forefront of the EPL, along with Dien, and championed SKY tv. So, where did that all go wrong? Others were looking ahead whilst he was making dough.
You forget that Chelsea, who get 5,000 more than us when full, have had a massive injection of unlimited funds. Man City were given a new stadium which holds 12,000 more than ours (which they can't fill) and then got a massive injection of funds. Nobody can compete with the financial power of Man U. Woolwich have the 2nd biggest turnover, yet fail to finish 2nd and yet Man city and Chelsea have bigger wage bills.
FFS, we do fucking well considering the size of our stadium (the 10th biggest) amount of manager we have had.We have the 6th largest wage bill and 6th largest income.


Let's get some reality here ffs. It is only since 2006 that we have been consistently there or thereabouts in the EPL, barring 2007/8 and 2008/9 when we won the LC and were runners up respectively.
We have broken the top 4 x 2 under ENIC which is an achievement, and we finished above Liverpool 4 years on the trot. If not for Fulop and Lasagne we may have fared better!!
It took Man City getting the Sheik to do that.

Since the first time I went Spurs in 1969 to the inception of the EPL we had finished in the top 4 6 times - when only 1st got you into the European cup and there wasn't any money for being runner up, 3rd or 4th -Thats six times in about a quarter of a century.
We have never been genuine title contenders in my time. We have always been inconsistent in the league.
I have had some great times though. The Div 2 comeback, 4 Cup finals (2 replays), 6 League cup finals, and a UEFA cup final.

The Chavs have had the Russian's dough, but even they were finishing higher than us in the EPL in the 5 seasons before ENIC took over. Abromovich took them on.
We coat Chavs and City, but do we want the same?
ENIC have their faults but we cannot pay the wages of top players, and today wages have a strong correlation with league position. Our ticket prices are high to fund wages that would attract any kind of international quality players. Forget signing most of the names we are linked to or want. It's impossible.
Ever wondered why our ticket prices are higher than Chavs and City's and they manage to keep theirs so low?
I wonder where we'd be if we lowered them. We couldn't sign anyone of note.
Levy has done some great things and some not so great.
MP has been brought in with a focus on self sustainability as we have tough times ahead as we have had to buy land and build a new stadium with our own money.



As for the new stadium. statements like 'wasting 2 years on the OS' don't make sense to me. As far as I remember we had no backing or guarantees from local government for building a new stadium at our club site. We only got that backing after Duggan got shot and the riots that ensued.
I could see his point. It was 5 odd miles away. The East London thing grated on me. However, I live in East London and I'm in N.1.
Also, E.17 is just across the way from N.17 What if they would have found land in Walthamstow?
We would have had built our own football stadium and have had a superb infrastructure. Probably would have taken less time for me to get there than it does for me to get to WHL now. The transition would have been seamless too. However, it was in Stratford.

This stadium bollocks should have been thought of long before. When you think Woolwich proposed to move to Ashburton in 1999 you have to ask what the previous owners were thinking.
Sugar's involvement in buying land when at Spurs included Berry and Lyndhurst/Saxilby.
Berry was part the consortium that tried to buy out Spurs. in 1991 ( when there were rumours of us expanding) one of Berry's private companies (Saxilby Ltd) borrowed money from Landhurst Leasing to buy land (31 paxton road and land behind premises in the high road) with a fixed charge on the land. Landhurst went into receivership and was investigated by SFO. Berry went on to become del chairman under Sugar. Saxilby Ltd was a 'directors retirement benefit plan' who's trustee's included Berry and his wife. Luckily Berry's creditors didn't get a claim on that land. Conveniently, he paid up half his loan and got the fixed charge was released just before Landhurst leasing went into receivership. The witness on the memorandum of satisfaction, Douglas Alexiou.
Edenote, the company Venebles used to buy into Spurs with Sugar, also borrowed money to do so from the fraudulent finance company Landhurst Leasing.
FFs, let's remember what chairman/owners were taking money out of the club and bumming us. Why were the owners not thinking about a new stadium site pre ENIC.

When ENIC took over I remember Buchler saying it was imperative that the capacity was increased to 44,000 for us to compete and that preliminary planning permission had been granted to renovate the East Stand.
However, to increase the capacity by 8k we would have to lose the revenue of over 10,000 seats/boxes over a year and half (conservatively) and for a cost of about £150m. ENIC have been buying land since 2005.
Anyway, we have all got what we want now. A new stadium where we already are. So, let's not moan about it taking time. We only just got the CPO. If it could have been built in Tottenham and quicker it would have been.
We have had our troubles getting cooperation from Local government, them the CPO -which took 3 times longer than most - and now with Archway steel.

Let's get a grip. Liverpool have won the title 18x but never the EPL. They have only finished in the top 4 once since 2009/10. Where did that all go wrong?
Against Palace in the EPL we have played them 10x, won 4, Drawn 4 and lost 2.
At HOME we have drawn against them 4 times (inc yesterday) and lost once. So why we are expected to roll them over at HOME is beyond me.
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Agree with the posts above about being a top 6 side and no god given right on being in the CL.
What needs to be done is to remove some of the deadwood in the squad.
As Palmers green yid highlighted about having a connection with some of the foreign players I also feel the same.
It just feels like they don't want to work hard for the team and on a free meal ticket and unlike some of old school players don't seem to want to put a shift in.
It seems like the current regime are on the case and hopefully have learned from their mistakes and can push on.
COYS.
 
Jenny Talia said:
I watched Harlequins v Leinster in the rugby earlier. Harlequins had lost 3 games on the bounce, and the captain, Nick Easter, took all the players away on a Sunday for a social and a team meeting. No coaches or managers, just the players. They basically said enough is enough, we sort this out now. They beat Leinster today and Easter was man of the match.

Can you imagine anyone in the Spurs team doing this? Or if they did, how many of the players would show up?
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morris-dancing-getty.jpg

Already done didn,t help.
 
Is saying we should be rolling over teams like palace so wrong,Bill nick would turn,oh well aim low,for fuck sake 100 million pounds spent on an already talented team,a state of the art training facility.Im very sorry but at the moment i feel let down,you can regurgitate as many spreadsheets and profit and loss accounts as you like.The bottom line for working people spending a large proportion of there income following a club they love is,if your putting on that shirt ,and coming of that pitch knowing you gave everthing with no regrets .That,s all we and many others ask for .If that,s beyond you ,you don,t support the same club as us.
 
The day we belived we could buy success without having a firm base (Post double 60s). All good teams have a hard core and buy to compliment this. We have always had a soft centre and bought to hide it?
We are pretentious ? I feel we are getting real and sucess is sooner rather than later belive people.
 
Some of the revisionism is staggering. Dawson would have improved the team? Really?

He was just relegated with Hull and deservedly so. And not as a lone heroic struggler in a poor team, but in fact as one of the many reasons that they were just not PL quality. Hell, even we beat them in a very poor performance, which were supposed to be their cup final.
 
I tell you where it all went wrong:

1987: We lost the Cup Final against the odds against Coventry... whilst being 1-0 up inside 3 minutes and having half the team a sponsorless laughing stock; The first evidence of 'Spursiness' on the football radar!

1989: THEY won the league against all the odds... in the last minute, getting the one result they needed... one of many 'Arsey' things they did!

1989: That Summer, Waddle left... depriving us of the midfield/forward trio we all wanted; Gazza, Waddle Lineker... I still blame Wenger for taking Hoddle away from us when he did... set the wheels in motion, and gave us all an early example of when Spursy and Arsey meet!

1991: We won the FA Cup, whilst being in financial meltdown... and sold Gazza for a fraction of what he was worth at the time... 1 step forwards... several steps back.

1991/92: we didn't take advantage of the new Premier League era... everyone else around us cottoned on, and made the most of it!

2005/06: Lasagne!

2012: Fucking Bayern Munich V Chelsea!

I think that's it for The Blame Game this time... join us again next week folks, when I'll have more people to blame!

**I think I've already mentioned some of these in a previous post... will have to check!
 
1882 said:
I tell you where it all went wrong:

1987: We lost the Cup Final against the odds against Coventry... whilst being 1-0 up inside 3 minutes and having half the team a sponsorless laughing stock; The first evidence of 'Spursiness' on the football radar!

1989: THEY won the league against all the odds... in the last minute, getting the one result they needed... one of many 'Arsey' things they did!

1989: That Summer, Waddle left... depriving us of the midfield/forward trio we all wanted; Gazza, Waddle Lineker... I still blame Wenger for taking Hoddle away from us when he did... set the wheels in motion, and gave us all an early example of when Spursy and Arsey meet!

1991: We won the FA Cup, whilst being in financial meltdown... and sold Gazza for a fraction of what he was worth at the time... 1 step forwards... several steps back.

1991/92: we didn't take advantage of the new Premier League era... everyone else around us cottoned on, and made the most of it!

2005/06: Lasagne!

2012: Fucking Bayern Munich V Chelsea!
Click to expand...

man-jumps-from-window-o.gif
 
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