Tottenham N17.

[palmers_green_yid]

Thing is with gentrification is it just another process, most of the originally population of Tottenham and many parts of London where pushed out to the home counties after the war and in their place immigrants from the Caribbean, Indian-sub continent and even close to home like Ireland came in.

Now these second or third generation people are being pushed out probably by the hipster grandchildren of many of the original Londoners sent off to the counties in the first place. Tottenham will survive although to see it become trendy is odd.

Were those original residents pushed out? It seems that in most cases, they chose to move because through moving out to the Home Counties, they could afford to buy a house and garden, or because they wanted the cleaner air and quieter lifestyle. In people I've known who moved out of Tottenham (most of dad's side of family...he was the only one who stayed in N London) there was an element of choice, rather than with gentrification which just makes it actually impossible to afford to live somewhere anymore.

As mentioned, some of the descendants of those residents didn't leave, you can still see them around Tottenham and especially in certain pubs on non-match days.

 

[DeadlyDemon]

So basically once a month? The walk TO the ground before kick off is nothing like it used to be in the 80's. Match day on the high road was special. Not so much now..

I get it fairly frequently if visiting family in the area on matchdays, usually someone asking how the game went.

I understand your other point (although not having experienced the 80's myself) but I think that's partly down to football culture changing as a whole rather than specifically a reflection on Tottenham.
My dad and his friends used to get down to the Lane early and be in the ground long before kickoff, there was a much different buzz on a matchday I expect.

Now people don't turn up until 5-10 minutes before kickoff (despite Spurs best efforts to get people there an hour beforehand). You're not going to get the same atmosphere building up to the game. Although as others have said NLD's are still pretty special and I'd hate to experience it as a gooner having to walk up the high road and having the welcome from our fans on the corner of the Park Lane.
The difference in visiting their place is astounding, I'm not sure what NLD's at Highbury were like (although my dad has some good stories from his visits) but I'd hate watching football there every week.

 

[SouthStand Billy]

I get it fairly frequently if visiting family in the area on matchdays, usually someone asking how the game went.

I understand your other point (although not having experienced the 80's myself) but I think that's partly down to football culture changing as a whole rather than specifically a reflection on Tottenham.
My dad and his friends used to get down to the Lane early and be in the ground long before kickoff, there was a much different buzz on a matchday I expect.

Now people don't turn up until 5-10 minutes before kickoff (despite Spurs best efforts to get people there an hour beforehand). You're not going to get the same atmosphere building up to the game. Although as others have said NLD's are still pretty special and I'd hate to experience it as a gooner having to walk up the high road and having the welcome from our fans on the corner of the Park Lane.
The difference in visiting their place is astounding, I'm not sure what NLD's at Highbury were like (although my dad has some good stories from his visits) but I'd hate watching football there every week.

Going t the old Highbury on NLD's was a damn sight more intimidating than it is today. Their ground is ridiculously dead.. The Olympic stadium will en worse imo..

Park lane is still lively but it's the High Road that has been my point of topic.

I remember the last NLD when it kicked off outside the away section, there's was loads of cheers coming from the flats and houses when Goons were taking a beating..

 

[Tomo]

I wouldn't mind a few extra pubs or perhaps the current pubs enlarged, I like it rammed but some cases like the Bricklayers it gets a bit stupid.

 

[Hobbsy]

Really don't know how the pubs are going to cope on match days when the new ground is built, it takes way to long to get a beer in whatever pub you drink it on match day at the moment let alone when another 20,000 odd , on the other hand the pubs that only open on match day are going to struggle for a season when we are playing at Wembley

 

[Smoked Salmon]

I've noticed that in Cheshunt, where my parents still live, more and more of the black community from North London are moving out. I think this is indicative of the ever expanding London. With the regeneration the stadium will bring, and with the gentrification of London continuing to expand, I wouldn't mind betting that Tottenham will be very different in 20-30 years.

 

[palmers_green_yid]

I've noticed that in Cheshunt, where my parents still live, more and more of the black community from North London are moving out. I think this is indicative of the ever expanding London. With the regeneration the stadium will bring, and with the gentrification of London continuing to expand, I wouldn't mind betting that Tottenham will be very different in 20-30 years.

Agree, and I think that places in the Home Counties which are currently quite homogenous White British places will change a lot as a result of the same phenomenon.

 

[Del Boy]

the walk from seven sisters used to be buzzing everybody excited about the game but now its nothing like that you see more goon shirts down to mcdonalds at bruce grove its only when you get to North Tottenham that it feels like the old days, although very much toned down from the glorious 80,s, on the topic of pubs could do with a few more especially between scotland green and the bell n hare, but then i guess the club will want us to drink in the ground in the new place

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

the walk from seven sisters used to be buzzing everybody excited about the game but now its nothing like that you see more goon shirts down to mcdonalds at bruce grove its only when you get to North Tottenham that it feels like the old days, although very much toned down from the glorious 80,s, on the topic of pubs could do with a few more especially between scotland green and the bell n hare, but then i guess the club will want us to drink in the ground in the new place

IMO it is why we bought in Ron Robson, remember the announcement? Club Announcement 5 September 2014 - News - tottenhamhotspur.com The only thing that I don't like about the new stadium has been the demolition of the historical buildings on the High Road that could have all been restored to proper quality boozers and kept an umbilical cord link to our history.

Whilst the food and drink is shockingly poor at the moment, I have nothing against the club in making this element better and the new stadium sounds like it is going for something quite special. Rocket Ronnie is the Vice Chairman of Mitchells & Butlers Mitchells & Butlers - Our brands who own All Bar One, Harvester, Toby Cavery, O'Neils & Browns to name but a few. All of course in turn owned by our esteemed owner Joe Lewis, Tavistock Goup.

Basically the local pubs are going to struggle to compete.

 

[Steed_Train]

the walk from seven sisters used to be buzzing everybody excited about the game but now its nothing like that you see more goon shirts down to mcdonalds at bruce grove its only when you get to North Tottenham that it feels like the old days, although very much toned down from the glorious 80,s, on the topic of pubs could do with a few more especially between scotland green and the bell n hare, but then i guess the club will want us to drink in the ground in the new place

We haven't been successful for decades now and most kids are glory hunters. Never used to see any Chelsea fans, now all the kids seem to be Chelsea/City/Goons.

 

[eanN17]

IMO it is why we bought in Ron Robson, remember the announcement? Club Announcement 5 September 2014 - News - tottenhamhotspur.com The only thing that I don't like about the new stadium has been the demolition of the historical buildings on the High Road that could have all been restored to proper quality boozers and kept an umbilical cord link to our history.

Whilst the food and drink is shockingly poor at the moment, I have nothing against the club in making this element better and the new stadium sounds like it is going for something quite special. Rocket Ronnie is the Vice Chairman of Mitchells & Butlers Mitchells & Butlers - Our brands who own All Bar One, Harvester, Toby Cavery, O'Neils & Browns to name but a few. All of course in turn owned by our esteemed owner Joe Lewis, Tavistock Goup.

Basically the local pubs are going to struggle to compete.

But Spurs will only be able to dictate which pubs will be inside the stadium area?

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

But Spurs will only be able to dictate which pubs will be inside the stadium area?

Of course, but if the majority of the 60k are probably going to be drinking in the stadium (specifically before and after KO) that puts huge pressure on the Pubs outside, most of which are dives and need money they don't have spent on them. That's if they survive the year we are away at Wembley.

 

[eanN17]

Of course, but if the majority of the 60k are probably going to be drinking in the stadium (specifically before and after KO) that puts huge pressure on the Pubs outside, most of which are dives and need money they don't have spent on them. That's if they survive the year we are away at Wembley.

it will be interesting to see, but 61k is something different than 36k, so there will be a lot more people in the area. If only the pubs can survive next year they will be in for a chance.

 

[paddy spur]

Before the match I'd rather drink in a pub then in the new white Hart lane. but if it's 20 minutes to reach the bar then you can see stadium based concessions coining in.

 

[Blanchflower]

Basically the local pubs are going to struggle to compete.

Spurs should buy any of the local pubs that are struggling and just run them as unbranded club pubs on match days - they'd have the economies of scale in terms of supplies and part time staff to make them profitable.

 

[alexwooty]

The Bell and Hare has clearly planned carefully to be able to survive the Wembley year and stay in business beyond it - they've rebranded, renovated, added multiple bars outside, and they're even using the upstairs as a hostel. Most of the staff there are clearly just temps who come in for matchdays. I'm sure the changes have put off some of the people that have been drinking there for years, but they're still getting packed out for matchdays despite putting their prices up massively, and they probably still get a decent amount of income the rest of the time too.

 

[palmers_green_yid]

Most fans want to drink in a pub not in the ground. Certain pubs do quite well away from matchdays too. The Ship, the Elbow Room and the Volunteer all have enough regulars. The Beehive will obviously survive because it's cornered the hipster market. I can't really vouch for the rest.

 

[imitationleather]

I've personally never lived in Tottenham (I support the the team because everyone in my family does and I would have been excommunicated if I'd picked anyone else), but the area has never had anything in it which has made me want to stay in it too long pre-or-post match. Or ever go there on a non-matchday. But then, the same can be said about where I currently live (terribly close to the Olympic Stadium, although I'm moving oop north in a couple of months to start a PhD about the displacement of working class communities from council estates, fittingly). Communities aren't necessarily about attracting day-trippers or outsiders to come and have a visit, they're about places for people to live.

I think Tottenham is going to become highly gentrified and this is going to hit long-standing residents hard. I went to the premiere of The Hard Stop, which is a film about Mark Duggan's family and friends and Broadwater Farm, and it certainly gives the impression of there being a community there, just one that is very rarely presented in any kind of positive light, and I do worry about things like that being destroyed - as they have been all over London over the past 15 years or so. Also on a Spurs level I think there will be an inevitable disconnect between the club and the area because, although it's great we're not moving, the people buying the new flats aren't going to be picking them because they're convenient for matchdays. They won't even be Spurs fans. They'll just be people eyeing up the next up-and-coming area in a city that's running out of them.

That said, I am excited about the new stadium. But it will be a shame for Tottenham to just become another area that only the super-wealthy can afford to live in.

 

[Tottenham Sean]

Of all the match day pubs that I venture into other times, its only the coach and horses,

I've personally never lived in Tottenham (I support the the team because everyone in my family does and I would have been excommunicated if I'd picked anyone else), but the area has never had anything in it which has made me want to stay in it too long pre-or-post match. Or ever go there on a non-matchday. But then, the same can be said about where I currently live (terribly close to the Olympic Stadium, although I'm moving oop north in a couple of months to start a PhD about the displacement of working class communities from council estates, fittingly). Communities aren't necessarily about attracting day-trippers or outsiders to come and have a visit, they're about places for people to live.

I think Tottenham is going to become highly gentrified and this is going to hit long-standing residents hard. I went to the premiere of The Hard Stop, which is a film about Mark Duggan's family and friends and Broadwater Farm, and it certainly gives the impression of there being a community there, just one that is very rarely presented in any kind of positive light, and I do worry about things like that being destroyed - as they have been all over London over the past 15 years or so. Also on a Spurs level I think there will be an inevitable disconnect between the club and the area because, although it's great we're not moving, the people buying the new flats aren't going to be picking them because they're convenient for matchdays. They won't even be Spurs fans. They'll just be people eyeing up the next up-and-coming area in a city that's running out of them.

That said, I am excited about the new stadium. But it will be a shame for Tottenham to just become another area that only the super-wealthy can afford to live in.

Indeed. A big beef of mine.
I have nothing against a not so nice area being improved. Sadly though, its very rarely ,if ever the locals that benefit.

 

[charge]

For those of you heading up tomorrow afternoon. Strongly recommend you visit the new "N17!" bar just before Aldi on the high road. They do banging toasties and slush rum cocktails (I know!), along with Redemption and One Mile End beers, both brewed in Tottenham. The guy is a local lad and has been open for a few months.

- Not affiliated to him in any way, just live very close by and have been there a few times