Our Midfield Trio

[Juicy Sushi]

The difference is that Chadli and Lamela have excelled this year (and I rated Chadli highly last season too)....where as Soldado looks exactly the same every time he's played this season. Even against lesser opposition, he is still a non entity.

I would disagree, and I will argue that Soldado's been suffering from the same problems this year as last. He's being played alongside teammates who don't know how to get the ball to the striker. Against Limasol, he wasn't getting much service until Lamela came on. In two minutes, he'd been picked out and converted.

Against Forest, he was stuck relying on Lennon, Paulinho and Townsend to supply passes. This would be the equivalent of teaching me Japanese and then sending me to visit Russia to use my new-found language skills.

Let's see what he (and Kane for that matter) can do when he's playing in front of our best attacking midfield before we write him off. So far, the only striker with that luxury for extended minutes has been Adebayor.

 

[sammyspurs]

It seems like right now we need a guy like Dempsey that mops up goals shot by those guys.

ochbye:

 

[Juicy Sushi]

No but its a massive indication of why its not worth trying it now....if he worked brilliantly with Eriksen and Chadli last year, it would show that its worth a punt this season.

But it didnt work. So stop using it as his excuse.

Actually, given the situation, it's completely relevant. All three were new players in a system which did not use their skills to any real extent. AVB did not care where shots came from, so no one bothered passing to strikers making runs, Eriksen was slow to get into the team, and Chadli was frequently not played. Then came Sherwood...

Judging Soldado on last year is like judging Chadli or Lamela on last year. It's neither fair, nor accurate.

 

[SoCalSpurs]

Hey guys, new poster on this board.

The talent that oozes out of our young midfield is something to get stoked on. Eriksen, Lamela and Chadli I feel aren't clicking on all cylinders right now but once they do I feel like they are going to be a force to reckon with and one of the best attacking midfield groups in the league.

It seems like right now we need a guy like Dempsey that mops up goals shot by those guys. Soldado should be the one that does it but I find him always out of position to do the job he's most suitable for. But that's a whole 'nother topic for a whole 'nother day.

There's really nothing to discuss with this post, just that I think we have something really valuable with those three and right now we can see flashes of brilliance. When they all get going at the same time it's going to be some beautiful football.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

Yep. Its definately the service.

:avbfacepalm:

Hilarious that was meant to be a good highlights vid

I never said he had a good year last year. But yes, this year, and indeed for much of last, it was the service that was an issue. We get that you don't like him. But your blanket assertion of "he's shit" is something others feels is debatable. I would argue that you don't put up numbers like he did at Valencia and still happen to be "shit". There is something rather more nuanced at issue.

 

[Jenny Talia]

Not gonna lie, I had to google semiotics.

That's Spurs for you, we can't even do the whole otics.

 

[sammyspurs]

Also hilarious that people slate Ade as getting too many chances.......but still dont think Kane has earned the spot, and Soldado "deserves it".

:avblol:

 

[Anthony Beale]

No but its a massive indication of why its not worth trying it now....if he worked brilliantly with Eriksen and Chadli last year, it would show that its worth a punt this season.

But it didnt work. So stop using it as his excuse.

Remember when everyone thought Chadli was shit.
Remember how everyone thought Rose was shit.
Remember how everyone thought Paulinho was good.

Different times, different managers, different systems... make players look different.

 

[Anthony Beale]

It seems like right now we need a guy like Dempsey that mops up goals shot by those guys. Soldado should be the one that does it but I find him always out of position to do the job he's most suitable for. But that's a whole 'nother topic for a whole 'nother day.

Also Soldado could be that guy but he never plays with the 3 players you mentioned.

 

[ArcspacE]

No one is talking about long ball. And I know our strikers are not being used as poachers. Soldado has great movement inside the penalty area when he's actually there. I say let him float around there while our mids dictate the attack. Soldado can score on the scraps that don't get in.

He deserves a chance in front of Chadli, Lamela, and Eriksen - more so than the current waster mong does (shocking in 6-7 games now) - give him a consecutive run of games in the PL and let's see how he fares with a bit of confidence

 

[Juicy Sushi]

Soldado has played alongside, or in front of:
Eriksen
Chadli
Bentaleb
Lennon
Townsend
Ade
Paulinho
Holtby
Dembele
Siggy
Fryers
Walker
Naughton
Rose
Davies

Not enough in the way of supply....must be Lamela

aulinhofacepalm:

But when, and in what situation? Last year is its own situation. We can discuss that at length elsewhere. THIS year, with the exception of pre-season and the Limassol match, Roberto has generally not been playing at the same time as our best midfield. Of the extensive list of names you provide, we have 4 fullbacks, 2 guys no longer with the team (Holtby and Siggy), 2 players who have shown they are not big chance creators (Paulinho and Dembele), 2 wingers who are either in sharp decline, or have yet to show an ability to pass to anything other than row Z, a 19-year old, a striker and 3 guys who, as I just mentioned, also were not featuring much last year, but are catching fire this year.

You can arbitrarily write a player off if you like, but your list is comprised of mostly players who don't create scoring chances, and 3 guys who do, but who Soldado has yet to play with extensively. If you don't like a person, fine, but just say that rather than claim he was playing in a system catering to him when he wasn't.

 

[Anthony Beale]

Hey guys, new poster on this board.

The talent that oozes out of our young midfield is something to get stoked on. Eriksen, Lamela and Chadli I feel aren't clicking on all cylinders right now but once they do I feel like they are going to be a force to reckon with and one of the best attacking midfield groups in the league.

It seems like right now we need a guy like Dempsey that mops up goals shot by those guys. Soldado should be the one that does it but I find him always out of position to do the job he's most suitable for. But that's a whole 'nother topic for a whole 'nother day.

There's really nothing to discuss with this post, just that I think we have something really valuable with those three and right now we can see flashes of brilliance. When they all get going at the same time it's going to be some beautiful football.

Please change your picture, quickly.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

How many chances did those three create on Sunday?

The fact is, they create for themselves not the strikers. It was Ade providing the assists against Southampton.

Actually, it was Chadli. Ade had a Key Pass. And, looking at the Opta numbers for that game, Lamela had 3 Key Passes, Eriksen 2 and Chadli 1 for Adebayor's 1 Key Pass. They also took 7 shots to Adebayor's 0. With the exception of a single play, Adebayor was uninvolved, and I think the fault is his, not the other guys.

People keep saying "he's never played Chadli, Eriksen and Lamela" but he has played with two of them and was shit.

Actually, Chadli was also regarded as "shit" last year during the AVB section of the season. Funnily enough, also in a system which completely failed to use his talents.

And if we've never seen it, why are you so sure thats the issue? Will those three stop him missing sitters?

There is a reason he is dropped.

Last year he was frustrating, I'll agree, but this year, in his minutes when he's been on the pitch with Lamela for example, he has scored. Those minutes have been very few. Much like Sherwood's time last year, when he never got a look in. Away at Soton he provided a monster cross to create/assist Adebayor's goal. He then got one other league game, when he scored. Then he was benched again. This would seem to be evidence of lack of use, not lack of quality.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

I dont care what he did at Valencia. Im a Tottenham fan.

Answer this honestly. Had Soldado been EXACTLY the same for Valencia, as he has for us, would you be backing him?

I get that you think he has some talent thats worth trying to get to.....but dont make out like he's done a single thing of note for this club. Its moronic to argue that the service is the issue when he has fluffed copious amounts of tap ins, one ones, and open goals.

Its also moronic to champion him playing in front our current AMs as THE ANSWER.....while stating he hasnt had the chance to play with all three yet. That makes the claim no more than a baseless and desperate hope, so please, just describe it as such, and not as a fact.

I listed you about 15 players he has failed while playing with.

Sorry, but this is the squad we have. and right now, he is in the b team, and for good reason.

He has been shit there too.....you dont get promoted to the first team, when you cant cut it, or stand out amongst the kids and reserves, and the argument that "he is too good for the players around him" is bollocks. He also has the luxury of playing against Champo level sides, and is still shit.

He is being schooled by Kane, and if anyone deserves a shot with some "better service" its him.

Well, if he performed the same at Valencia as here, we wouldn't have signed him, now would we? The point is, he did perform.

You listed 15 players, most of whom were not chance creators. Why not include Lloris as well?

The point is that this 'B' team has no creative spark to speak of. Do Paulinho, Lennon or Townsend create? Rather the opposite. Should Soldado create all on his own? If so that's in complete contrast to the way Pochettino wants his teams to play.

And I also would prefer Kane over either Soldado or Adebayor. But I don't dismiss any player as "shit". Not the way I look at the game.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

So he's been shit for Spurs then in other words.

All those players are the ones we have had who get forward and/or create (bar Lamela who wasnt on the list)
Like I said....thats what he had to work with and he cant find a connection with any of them....but you think the problem is because he is not being played in front of the front three, who have only played 6 games together themselves.

Yes, I do think that, as other than those 3, our midfielders are pretty dire at creating scoring chances. You said "get forward and/or" create". I am talking about chance creation. Getting forward without creating is pretty damn useless, but for some reason you feel those players count as playmakers even when they don't.

How long will Soldado get with them to find form.......till Christmas and beyond no doubt, without scoring, yet Ade only gets 6 games with them.

I'd give Soldado 3 games. He's training with them every day, knows their movements, and has already shown the ability to play well with both Lamela and Eriksen (last year). After 3 games, we'd be able to see if it was a nature or nurture situation. But I'd rather Kane got that chance first.

Kane does just fine in the b team and the first team. Soldado struggles in both.

What was your excuse for him last season when Ade and Kane came in under TS and scored goals with the same players behind him that Soldado had?

People talked up Holtby like it was a crime he was dropped and loaned out, and how energetic and creative he was. Why couldnt Soldado score with Holtby in the team?

Why dont you ever address the fact he very rarely takes the chances he does get.

I did. You just seem very eager to read a blanket advocacy for Soldado starting into everything I've said. Holtby did a lot of running around, but didn't seem to work out. As for Ade and Kane last year, it's not just the players. It's the system. Under AVB's system the striker was neglected. It didn't matter who the striker was, they were not going to be getting service. Also, under AVB, Chadli did not play a significant role, partly due to injuries and Eriksen only gradually received minutes in the team. When they were more readily available, Sherwood was in charge and Soldado didn't get the minutes, leaving your claim of having the same players behind him rather disingenuous.

Now answer me this honestly (and for certain others, just answer it honestly in your head...that way you can keep up the Ade out campaign publically):

If Soldado had played like Ade since Christmas to now, would you want him dropped?

Yes, I would, as I don't think Adebayor has played well enough this season to justify his spot. Based on the performances I've seen this year (the 2014-2015 season), I would prefer Kane to be the starting striker. But I would also have clear data that Soldado isn't working out with our best midfield, in your hypothetical. In reality, we don't have that data.

 

[Belgian Spur]

Reading through some of the player threads, i sometimes wonder what certain anti posters do when their subject of mockery has a good game or starts scoring. Do they cheer or swear because said player is proving them wrong.

Me i dont rate Paulinho at all and have severe doubts about Townsend,Vlad and to a lesser extend Capoue but if they perform and prove me wrong that means its better for Spurs. The Chadli hater brigade are still going strong these days too, if he does nothing they masacre him and if he scores its like look at all the things he did badly before in stead of saying - well i think i made an error in judgement ...

 

[Burko]

Not gonna lie, I had to google semiotics.

 

[ArcspacE]

Hello, multi buddy - and welcome back

We have the 5th-best midfield in the PL following City, Utd, Woolwich and Chelsea - roughly on par with Liverpool if they insist on playing Henderson and Gerrard in the same 11.

Barkley's injury and Mirallas' inconsistency has also helped substantailly - we appear to have overtaken that lot - just.

Oh, and Duece is shitter than shit

 

[Anthony Beale]

He played with two of them last year. It didnt help.

But we arent talking about last year, are we Sammy.

 

[SoCalSpurs]

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