Micky van de Ven

[JDefoe]

Idk if he has any issues over shorter distances, here he is matching Kolo Muani step for step over a pretty short distance:

See this is not a pretty short distance whatsoever to me. He starts sprinting basically at the center circle for a good 15-20 meters. That is a sprint into open space.

Ask yourself, how many times did we give away goals because Eric Dier or Ben Davies had to run 30m on a dead sprint and got outpaced. Yeah, maybe once or twice, but the majority of our issues were from poor tracking, shite tackling, communication, misreading of balls in the air, diving in and giving away penalties due to lack of quickness in tight space, etc.

What I’m getting at is this.

With Van de Ven I’m not worried at all about his ability to sprint back in space. I’m worried about him in the air, in tight spaces, making decisions, being decisive tackling, knowing when to step in and when to contain, etc.

 

[GGTH]

See this is not a pretty short distance whatsoever to me. He starts sprinting basically at the center circle for a good 15-20 meters. That is a sprint into open space.

Ask yourself, how many times did we give away goals because Eric Dier or Ben Davies had to run 30m on a dead sprint and got outpaced. Yeah, maybe once or twice, but the majority of our issues were from poor tracking, shite tackling, communication, misreading of balls in the air, diving in and giving away penalties due to lack of quickness in tight space, etc.

What I’m getting at is this.

With Van de Ven I’m not worried at all about his ability to sprint back in space. I’m worried about him in the air, in tight spaces, making decisions, being decisive tackling, knowing when to step in and when to contain, etc.

That doesn't sound like an issue of accelration, but his ability to read the game.

Honestly for the majority of those I'm not expecting him to be perfect, those are all exactly the sorts of things that get better with experience (except maybe being strong in the air), but the fact that we'll be playing with a high line and that he has great recovery pace will allow him some leeway.

 

[JDefoe]

That doesn't sound like an issue of accelration, but his ability to read the game.

It’s both. Acceleration is based on your balance too, which is key to the ability to read the game imo, it allows for quicker reactions once the danger is identified.

I had sworn not to post only his lowlights but watch this goal for example.

He has to step out to the attacker and he gets his first step all wrong. He’s leaning the wrong way, is too slow to recover, and gets burnt for a goal. His long-distance pace meant absolutely fuck all here, it’s all about his first step.

 

[GGTH]

It’s both. Acceleration is based on your balance too, which is key to the ability to read the game imo, it allows for quicker reactions once the danger is identified.

I had sworn not to post only his lowlights but watch this goal for example.

He has to step out to the attacker and he gets his first step all wrong. He’s leaning the wrong way, is too slow to recover, and gets burnt for a goal. His long-distance pace meant absolutely fuck all here, it’s all about his first step.

That example has nothing to do with either speed or acceleration, that's bad positioning.

 

[LeParisien]

It’s both. Acceleration is based on your balance too, which is key to the ability to read the game imo, it allows for quicker reactions once the danger is identified.

I had sworn not to post only his lowlights but watch this goal for example.

He has to step out to the attacker and he gets his first step all wrong. He’s leaning the wrong way, is too slow to recover, and gets burnt for a goal. His long-distance pace meant absolutely fuck all here, it’s all about his first step.

I read a Twitter thread that pointed out that the attacker in question always took the ball outside onto his right. That is one of the few shots he took on his left all season (and it’s a belter!).

It looks like bad defending but if you’ve had your scouting report and been told to this guy always pushes wide onto his right then that will affect how you defend.

I don’t know MvdV at all. Just providing context

 

[JDefoe]

That example has nothing to do with either speed or acceleration, that's bad positioning.

Caused by poor balance and footwork. And that recovery step he tries to take is not fast enough, which definitely is his short-distance acceleration, and it causes a goal.

Ultimately balance is the base of any sort of speed, be it short-term explosiveness, quick acceleration, or long distance.

All I’m saying is don’t expect him to be Walker.

 

[LeParisien]

JDefoe - hasn’t MvdV been bought to be the cat, to Romeros dog? We’ll play with a high line… he’s there to clean up and control the space between himself and Vicario.

There’s a lot of sense there right?

 

[GGTH]

Caused by poor balance and footwork. And that recovery step he tries to take is not fast enough, which definitely is his short-distance acceleration, and it causes a goal.

Ultimately balance is the base of any sort of speed, be it short-term explosiveness, quick acceleration, or long distance.

All I’m saying is don’t expect him to be Walker.

I don't think there's anyone who can make a fast enough recovery step in that position, he was positioned terribly.

 

[Harrier]

See this is not a pretty short distance whatsoever to me. He starts sprinting basically at the center circle for a good 15-20 meters. That is a sprint into open space.

Ask yourself, how many times did we give away goals because Eric Dier or Ben Davies had to run 30m on a dead sprint and got outpaced. Yeah, maybe once or twice, but the majority of our issues were from poor tracking, shite tackling, communication, misreading of balls in the air, diving in and giving away penalties due to lack of quickness in tight space, etc.

What I’m getting at is this.

With Van de Ven I’m not worried at all about his ability to sprint back in space. I’m worried about him in the air, in tight spaces, making decisions, being decisive tackling, knowing when to step in and when to contain, etc.

Lenglet got beaten plenty of times in a foot race though.

Might not have always lead to a goal but his 1v1 lack of pace gave us plenty of frights.

 

[JDefoe]

JDefoe - hasn’t MvdV been bought to be the cat, to Romeros dog? We’ll play with a high line… he’s there to clean up and control the space between himself and Vicario.

There’s a lot of sense there right?

Agreed. More precisely, we bought VdV's physical profile to be the cat to Romero's dog, in that he can actually stand up physically to a Haaland, Nunez, Osimhen, Nico Jackson in height and strength, and also match them for pace in a foot race.

He MUST be uniquely suited to Big Ange's high line, given that we paid £42m for a 22 year old with 30 matches of top-flight football.

In my now optimistic view of Van de Ven as he's one of ours now, I'd argue that we splashed that cash on his physical profile, his left-footedness, his potential. What we did not splash that cash on is his current production, which includes a 4th percentile aerial win rate, his indecisiveness in tackling, and yes, his balance and reading of the game

I wouldn't try to argue that every mistake he made 'wasn't actually a mistake' or 'wasn't that bad'. Arguing that bad is actually good, that 2+2=5, is never a fruitful line of argumentation. Much better to argue that 2 can eventually grow into 3 and equal 5 that way.

We bought him because we believe he has a lot to grow into and the coaching to clean him up and mold him into a CB who will be worth twice that one day. And I sincerely believe he can be that player.

 

[Gazzapen]

Give him a chance. We not gonna get better from Levy. 80% our signings for the past Two Years have been a punt in the dark. Hopefully this one pays off.

Id've hoped we sign a defence with a few older, more experienced players but we all know that won't happen with Levy.

 

[BAE32]

Ask yourself, how many times did we give away goals because Eric Dier or Ben Davies had to run 30m on a dead sprint and got outpaced. Yeah, maybe once or twice, but the majority of our issues were from poor tracking, shite tackling, communication, misreading of balls in the air, diving in and giving away penalties due to lack of quickness in tight space, etc.

Not really a fair comment considering under Conte and Mourinho our CBs have been parked in their own penalty area all game pretty much. Under Ange with a high line getting beaten in behind will become our most glaring weakness, and theres no chance you'd want Dier or Davies chasing strikers with space to run into. Hopefully with this guy it becomes less of a threat and we can play with a bit of a confidence that a ball over the top won't kill us.

 

[Boltonspur]

 

[Richard Arlison]

It’s both. Acceleration is based on your balance too, which is key to the ability to read the game imo, it allows for quicker reactions once the danger is identified.

I had sworn not to post only his lowlights but watch this goal for example.

He has to step out to the attacker and he gets his first step all wrong. He’s leaning the wrong way, is too slow to recover, and gets burnt for a goal. His long-distance pace meant absolutely fuck all here, it’s all about his first step.

Looks to me like he’s as showing that player inside like his left foot is weak.

Maybe a scout issue as well

 

[prinmemo]

See this is not a pretty short distance whatsoever to me. He starts sprinting basically at the center circle for a good 15-20 meters. That is a sprint into open space.

Ask yourself, how many times did we give away goals because Eric Dier or Ben Davies had to run 30m on a dead sprint and got outpaced. Yeah, maybe once or twice, but the majority of our issues were from poor tracking, shite tackling, communication, misreading of balls in the air, diving in and giving away penalties due to lack of quickness in tight space, etc.

What I’m getting at is this.

With Van de Ven I’m not worried at all about his ability to sprint back in space. I’m worried about him in the air, in tight spaces, making decisions, being decisive tackling, knowing when to step in and when to contain, etc.

Of course Dier never had to sprint back. He was always in our own box. And that’s how Conte liked it.

Not going to be the case this season. We will be playing a high line. As such, we need pace for when shit happens.

 

[prinmemo]

Looks to me like he’s as showing that player inside like his left foot is weak.

Maybe a scout issue as well

Exactly. He was taking his right foot away. Intentional. The “slow reaction” take by the OP is pure garbage.

Edit: just realized I replied to you.

Not only do you deserve your place on the Post GOAT Hall of Fame, incredibly, you’re never wrong. I’ve never disagreed with you.

 

[JDefoe]

Exactly. He was taking his right foot away. Intentional. The “slow reaction” take by the OP is pure garbage.

Edit: just realized I replied to you.

Not only do you deserve your place on the Post GOAT Hall of Fame, incredibly, you’re never wrong. I’ve never disagreed with you.

Great, again, this is a perfect example of what I’m talking about. Trying to make 2+2=5.

No clue why you lot are twisting yourself into pretzels over this one. Let me ask you, do you get to to take a goal off the board because you were “taking away someone’s right foot”?

Lol. By this logic:
Dier’s defending here was fine coz he was just “taking away Rashford’s right foot”

You don’t have to act like he was perfect here, that’s the entire point. You can just admit he got caught leaning, made a mistake, a poor first step, and one he’ll need to learn from.

 

[prinmemo]

Great, again, this is a perfect example of what I’m talking about. Trying to make 2+2=5.

No clue why you lot are twisting yourself into pretzels over this one. Let me ask you, do you get to to take a goal off the board because you were “taking away someone’s right foot”?

Lol. By this logic:
Dier’s defending here was fine coz he was just “taking away Rashford’s right foot”

You don’t have to act like he was perfect here, that’s the entire point. You can just admit he got caught leaning, made a mistake, a poor first step, and one he’ll need to learn from.

No. You claim it was because he is clumsy or isn’t good in tight spaces. I am saying the guy scored the goal because VDV’s positioning was poor. As the GOAT correctly pointed out, it could be a question of scouting. That guy always went right in that situation, and VDV correctly took that option away. The guy scored anyway.

Shit happens. This doesn’t make him a poor defender.

 

[JDefoe]

No. You claim it was because he is clumsy or isn’t quick in short distances. I am saying the guy scored the goal because VDV’s positioning was poor. Not because he isn’t quick.

Sure, well it’s both. He made a mistake with positioning/reading of the game (which is bad enough in itself), but this was exacerbated by the initial long step he took with his left foot there. It was needless and too far towards the goal line, and resulted in him losing his balance.

A top defensive coach is going to tell him to take smaller steps in that situation. He’s going to tell him to crouch down rather than being so upright. This is the downside of a long-legged high hip tall defender. Vulnerability to quick changes in direction. His technique and reading of the game both feed into each other, obviously, and he must improve both.

Either way, the end result was he got rinsed in a tight space and gave up a goal. And Van de Ven himself reacted angrily and would be the first to tell you his approach to that situation was all wrong. There’s no need to defend a mistake like that, the key is to look at it as an example of flawed technique to clean up.

 

[prinmemo]

Sure, well it’s both. He made a mistake with positioning/reading of the game (which is bad enough in itself), but this was exacerbated by the initial long step he took with his left foot there. It was needless and too far towards the goal line, and resulted in him losing his balance.

A top defensive coach is going to tell him to take smaller steps in that situation. He’s going to tell him to crouch down rather than being so upright. This is the downside of a long-legged high hip tall defender. Vulnerability to quick changes in direction. His technique and reading of the game both feed into each other, obviously, and he must improve both.

Either way, the end result was he got rinsed in a tight space and gave up a goal.

What I am saying is that perhaps he was coached to take away the guy’s right foot given that this lad had never turned left to shoot. He was so obviously trying to make the lad go left that he got rinses. I don’t think it is an issue of skill or reading of the game.

Anyhow, every defender gets beat. Multiple times in a season. Also makes multiple mistakes.

I don’t see these videos as evidence of anything.