Levy / ENIC

[Millbanks]

Ok Anthony. I`ve just thought about it. And my logic is 100% flawless. And....he was under contract. We didn`t have to sell him. Cotracts take the place of free will. Before the bite in brazil Liverpool kept Suarez, against his will. Man Utd kept Rooney, against his will. Everton kept Baines, against his will. Southampton kept Schneiderlin, against his will. The list is Endless. You see, every time a player wants out when he`s under contract, you don`t have to sell. ENIC, or Levy rather, have a history of caving in. My logic tells me thats not something to be proud of.

I'm not crediting Levy with his development, but what I will credit him with is the fee he negotiated given Bale had made it crystal clear he wanted to leave.

All European stars bought in recent years:
Eriksen £12m.
Gotze £35m.
Lewandowski FREE
Suarez £65m
Kroos £24m
James £63m

We sold a want-away player for £85m. Tottenham Hotspur. EIGHTY FIVE MILLION POUNDS. Is it an achievement to look back on? No. But it was a fantastic piece of business by Levy, and there is no way our club could afford to turn down that kind of money. It is also evidence that we were lucky enough to experience one of the worlds best players for a period of time at Tottenham Hotspur - something that was never going to continue at a club our size. What other clubs at our level manage to hold onto the gems they unearth? There's no loyalty in football. These guys work for 15/20 years, and most then retire. You think he's gonna hang on at Spurs on £80k/week, turning down the opportunity to treble or quadruple his wages because of his love for the club?

Mental.

Juventus, the best Italian team at the moment by a distance, and competing in the Champions League, will not hold onto Pogba much longer - purely because of the clubs sniffing around. No one can compete with the financial might of Barca, Real Madrid, Bayern, PSG, Chelsea and Man City. If they want a player, they can get him.

We're a million miles from that - and to be honest - I'm pleased to be different to them.

 

[mouse]

I can't speak for others, and don't know if I'm included as a 'back seat chairman', but I certainly don't think running a club like ours is simple or black and white.

But as a supporter I want the people running our club to do an excellent job. For me ENIC have done 'quite well/satisfactory/quite good' that kind of level. I just wish/hope they can do better than that. Obviously some/many people would give ENIC a higher grade, and that's fine, all about opinions, etc.

It wasn’t directed at you or any one in particular. And of course we are entitled to express our "opinion" - but it is just that: An Opinion.

I've never seen the use in arguing to the ridiculous degree that some do on here when most of what they back their "opinion" up with is pure speculation.
It's why the arguments go on for so long, because no one can definitively say that their "opinion" is correct because there's very little concrete evidence to back the argument up either way.

We don’t know enough about what goes on behind the scenes to know whether the decisions made where good or bad or for what reasons they were made.

You can say "ENIC could have done a better job", and it's right to expect that, but you can’t really tell me under what specific circumstances? We only have a fans perspective, and we will never know the full picture.

 

[Greaves357_bestever]

It wasn’t directed at you or any one in particular. And of course we are entitled to express our "opinion" - but it is just that: An Opinion.

I've never seen the use in arguing to the ridiculous degree that some do on here when most of what they back their "opinion" up with is pure speculation.
It's why the arguments go on for so long, because no one can definitively say that their "opinion" is correct because there's very little concrete evidence to back the argument up either way.

We don’t know enough about what goes on behind the scenes to know whether the decisions made where good or bad or for what reasons they were made.

You can say "ENIC could have done a better job", and it's right to expect that, but you can’t really tell me under what specific circumstances? We only have a fans perspective, and we will never know the full picture.

Fair comments Mouse. We can never know the full picture.
I, for one, am always haunted by the fact that just maybe RA wanted to buy us instead of Chelsea, or at least was seriously considering it, and that maybe ENIC could have tried harder to make the deal happen. Also indeed, that had we kicked on in the first few years under ENIC, RA may well have chosen us.

We'll never know the answers to these questions, but for sure it prejudices me against ENIC when I think of what might have been had we won that fateful lottery some twelve years ago.

I try to be fair to ENIC by just concentrating on the basic facts. Compared to the fifteen years before, our Lge record is better overall, though we've never got a third place as we did twice in the previous period. Our trophy record is worse, but our finances are better.

For me trophies are the key stat, hence I think overall ENIC have done quite a good job, but could do better.

 

[Greaves357_bestever]

The one thing I truly don't understand is why now? Why are so many people so pissed off at Levy now? It makes no sense, things finally seem to be going right, Levy seems to have learned from his mistakes, we're progressing brilliantly as a team and there is a fantastic feel to the club plus we have a £400 million stadium on the way. Not only that but the huge investment into our youth facilities and restructuring of our staff there has really started to pay off. Sure he's made mistakes but he's human too for god sakes and he seems to be learning. In fact there was a lot of evidence he learned a lot even under AVB's reign especially if the rumours about AVB walking are to be believed.

I'm extremely happy with our clubs direction right now and we really seem to be building a solid base for long term success which is something very few club owners are able to do.

For me, once again blowing the chance of a trophy, has got me depressed and angry, especially losing to Chelsea in a final. It hurts so much, we'd beaten Chelsea in our previous two finals, now that's another proud boast for us shattered.

But for sure, there are lots of good signs. A trophy or a new stadium in the next four years, preferably both, would completely change my tune about ENIC and I push them up to somewhere between good and excellent in all probability.

But we've had way too much jam tomorrow and yesterday but never jam today from ENIC, so I won't be celebrating the future till it happens and turns to gold and silver(ware).

 

[Eskimo]

If ENIC were a manager from their tenure they'd be this fellow:

 

[Tomo]

Zero to Hero for many.

Have to say thought this appointment was Levy's last chance from where I was, what is it 10 managers in almost as many years since ENIC took over? bit of a circus really and that is how the rest of the Prem looked at us anyway. The constant hiring and firing suggested leadership that was either incapable of selecting the right coach or incapable of supporting them properly. The piss take from Sports Bible kind of illustrates my point.

pic.twitter.com/tJ0lxo79Zo

Always felt that as we went through so many managers and players for that matter we need gained the stability to play at 100%, always a developing team and never the finished product. Managers never given enough time in many cases to build a sqaud to play the way they wanted or backed enough to get the players to do it. Season after season missing a left back or a striker or a DM or whatever and then wondering why we couldn't compete.

That being said ENIC have kept us financial in good stead, however we are a football team and I would like to think of us as more than just a bussiness. What did catch me off guard and to which I have to give Levy great praise is the investment in the training ground and in particularly the youth system which has gone a long way to addressing our sqaud deficiencies. I think by finally make a great call on the manager, a manager who respects youth as well and by developing many young talents ENIC have blunted many of their previous failings.

We can be tight barstards to a better degree than before and not risk falling away like we used to, our facilities make us attractive to players both youth and senior and the new stadium will help even more so that we might actually look like a big club. Finally we have a manager who's skills in youth development and playing attacking football fits us like a glove.

I have no idea if ENIC's planned it to the last detail or if a lot of it was luck but it seems like we are no longer headless chickens waiting for the manager to get sacked, the players to be sold then not replaced properly and forever and a day becoming a by word for mediocrity and underachievement. I actually think we have a vision and fuck me it's nice.

P.S

Levy please don't sack Poch even if he loses 3-4 games on the trot.

 

[mouse]

Zero to Hero for many.

Have to say thought this appointment was Levy's last chance from where I was, what is it 10 managers in almost as many years since ENIC took over? bit of a circus really and that is how the rest of the Prem looked at us anyway. The constant hiring and firing suggested leadership that was either incapable of selecting the right coach or incapable of supporting them properly. The piss take from Sports Bible kind of illustrates my point.

pic.twitter.com/tJ0lxo79Zo

Always felt that as we went through so many managers and players for that matter we need gained the stability to play at 100%, always a developing team and never the finished product. Managers never given enough time in many cases to build a sqaud to play the way they wanted or backed enough to get the players to do it. Season after season missing a left back or a striker or a DM or whatever and then wondering why we couldn't compete.

That being said ENIC have kept us financial in good stead, however we are a football team and I would like to think of us as more than just a bussiness. What did catch me off guard and to which I have to give Levy great praise is the investment in the training ground and in particularly the youth system which has gone a long way to addressing our sqaud deficiencies. I think by finally make a great call on the manager, a manager who respects youth as well and by developing many young talents ENIC have blunted many of their previous failings.

We can be tight barstards to a better degree than before and not risk falling away like we used to, our facilities make us attractive to players both youth and senior and the new stadium will help even more so that we might actually look like a big club. Finally we have a manager who's skills in youth development and playing attacking football fits us like a glove.

I have no idea if ENIC's planned it to the last detail or if a lot of it was luck but it seems like we are no longer headless chickens waiting for the manager to get sacked, the players to be sold then not replaced properly and forever and a day becoming a by word for mediocrity and underachievement. I actually think we have a vision and fuck me it's nice.

P.S

Levy please don't sack Poch even if he loses 3-4 games on the trot.

Great post.

I had a similar conversation with a fellow Yido in a boozer in Kings X waiting for my train after Wembley. He was a lot less positive about the future and kept talking about "false dawns".

I just hope we're not on the up cylce of yet another "Tottenham Hotspur Wheel of Failiure"

 

[Tomo]

Great post.

I had a similar conversation with a fellow Yido in a boozer in Kings X waiting for my train after Wembley. He was a lot less positive about the future and kept talking about "false dawns".

I just hope we're not on the up cylce of yet another "Tottenham Hotspur Wheel of Failiure"

I think our resources are much better this time, we have about 3-5 young players coming through at least on top of what we already have, a load of cash from the selling the deadwood in the summer so our sqaud should be in better shape going forward than it has been in the past.

The facilities aspect is sometimes seen as mute point but players like Lloris and Verts are human. If they play at a dump of a training ground they will not be happy. If we want to be a big club we have to look like one and we are
starting to look like more than just an Everton of the south.

 

[mouse]

I think our resources are much better this time, we have about 3-5 young players coming through at least on top of what we already have, a load of cash from the selling the deadwood in the summer so our sqaud should be in better shape going forward than it has been in the past.

The facilities aspect is sometimes seen as mute point but players like Lloris and Verts are human. If they play at a dump of a training ground they will not be happy. If we want to be a big club we have to look like one and we are
starting to look like more than just an Everton of the south.

But "You can't win anything with kids".

:eriksenlol:

A Newcastle supporting mate of mine considered us the "Cockney Geordies" in the sense that we have a large support base with high expectations and that we flatter to deceive on a regular basis.

I would have to point out: A. We're not Cockneys and B. We've actually won something in the modern age other than the Intertoto Cup.

 

[Tomo]

But "You can't win anything with kids".

:eriksenlol:

A Newcastle supporting mate of mine considered us the "Cockney Geordies" in the sense that we have a large support base with high expectations and that we flatter to deceive on a regular basis.

I would have to point out: A. We're not Cockneys and B. We've actually won something in the modern age other than the Intertoto Cup.

Cockney outside London is generally thought of as working class Londoner rather than a guy from Bow. It's like when we refer to people from Sunderland as Geordies and to be fair we are worse, at least they are refering to one city (London), we mix up two seperate cities.

 

[James savage]

Cockney - meaning to be born within the sound of Bow Bells which is in fact in the Square Mile in the City of London on a road called Cheapside COYS

 

[Anthony Beale]

Why do people think all these problems are unique to Tottenham?
Squads lacking certain players at the right time that would have allowed them to push on a bit... doesnt that basically describe every squad ever? A team that was relegated might have learnt the 2 extra points they needed to stay up with a better striker. A mid table side could have got europa with a better keeper. A europa side (oh hey there...) could have got Champions league with another striker. The side that comes second could have come first with a better left back, the side that wins that league could have done the double with a another centre back. The side that did the double could have done the treble... etc etc.

We aren't the only side competing in these leagues and competitions. Every side is being sent out at the beginning of the season to give them the best chance of winning / not losing as many games as possible. So looking back with hindsight and saying "well i don't like Enic because had they bought so and so at this time we could have qualified for the champions league / pushed on /whatever" is just stupid. Enic aren't deliberately holding us back ffs.

Well, when i say they haven't been holding us back, thats not strictly true. What with trying to get a stadium built, they've been frugal and sensible with the money spent for the last 10 or so years. And in that time we've had our most consistent run in... how many years? When was the last time we qualified for europe however many seasons in a row we have done under enic?

The fact is they've managed to keep the club largely competitive whilst building for the future. We're still the foundations right now. The next 50 years can be beautiful because we're one of the most prepared clubs in the world. We have an excellent academy, a young team, impeccable finances and soon one of the most modern and impressive stadiums in club football.

If all you care about is trophies then support Chelsea, or barca or madrid or even Juventus. theres more to football than just trophies. The trophies themselves are meaningless, its the journey to getting those trophies.

 

[Greaves357_bestever]

I never call Sunderland fans Geordies, for me they are Mackems. Properly speaking they are Wearsiders I guess, but Mackems seems more popular now, and doesn't seem to be regarded as an insult by Sunderland fans, as I don't like calling other teams silly names like Wet Spam or whatever.

 

[jimmyriggle]

Greaves357_bestever i find your position a bit confusing. No one can doubt your love and passion for the club. And you have first hand experience of watching the 'traditional' Spurs back in the 60s-80s. But at the same time you bemoan the fact we weren't bought out by a wealthy Russian criminal who would have made us totally despised across the country, bought us trophies with an army of mercenary foreign stars who, despite their amazing level of skill, play some of the most soul crushingly negative football in the name of winning at all costs - and essentially ripped the real soul out of the club by attracting a bunch of passionless Johnny come latelies.

A lot of your criticisms of ENIC do stand up, but I just personally can't respect the opinion of anyone that says: "I, for one, am always haunted by the fact that just maybe RA wanted to buy us instead of Chelsea, or at least was seriously considering it, and that maybe ENIC could have tried harder to make the deal happen. Also indeed, that had we kicked on in the first few years under ENIC, RA may well have chosen us."

You seem willing to sacrifice all that is good about Spurs in the name of some silverware that you personally will almost certainly never get to touch. Just to have bragging rights over other fans. Love us for who we are. Not what you wanted us to be.

 

[eanN17]

Well spoken jimmyriggle

I seriously think that most people walking out of Wembley down Wembley Park would rather lose as Spurs than win as Chelsea with all what it represents with their history or their lack of it, being taken over by a Russian crook to their connection to blatant racist fan groups to some of their players like Terry, Drogba and Costa who make Darth Vader look like an innocent boy in Sound of Music.

Woolwich is anti-Spurs. Chelsea is anti-football.

And although we would never have that much shit connected to our name it would forever be ruined if we allowed a criminal to buy our club.

 

[jimmyriggle]

Well spoken jimmyriggle

I seriously think that most people walking out of Wembley down Wembley Park would rather lose as Spurs than win as Chelsea with all what it represents with their history or their lack of it, being taken over by a Russian crook to their connection to blatant racist fan groups to some of their players like Terry, Drogba and Costa who make Darth Vader look like an innocent boy in Sound of Music.

Woolwich is anti-Spurs. Chelsea is anti-football.

And although we would never have that much shit connected to our name it would forever be ruined if we allowed a criminal to buy our club.

totaly agree. I guess the only comeback is that Joe Lewis also nicked a load of money. But I suppose very few people come into that much wealth without being just a little bit dodgy

 

[eanN17]

totaly agree. I guess the only comeback is that Joe Lewis also nicked a load of money. But I suppose very few people come into that much wealth without being just a little bit dodgy

I agree about that most wealthy men of that calibre haven't been angels during their lives. I don't know much about how Joe Lewis managed to get this rich, for all that I know there is a horrible story there too. I know a bit about Putin's Russia though and the whole development there makes me sick.

 

[Tottenham Sean]

Cockney - meaning to be born within the sound of Bow Bells which is in fact in the Square Mile in the City of London on a road called Cheapside COYS

Yep.The arguments I have with people about this.Normally West ham fans,who cant get their heads around there's as many Cockneys in North London as there is in east.

 

[Burko]

So we want to be rich..... but not too rich.

 

[jimmyriggle]

The thing that is so unfair about the Chelsea situation is that the fans will try to tell you that they had won a few trophies and finished high up the table the few years before Roman came along. But completely forget that they were weeks away from doing a Leeds and going flat broke. They overspent beyond their means on loads of wank foreign players and were about to get their dues. Then uncle roman rides in on his aircraft carrier to save the day.

It really is luck beyond luck. They must be charmed.