Lack of urgency

[sammyspurs]

And yes, maybe I'm cheating a bit by including two away matches per club where you have five home matches, but that may be exactly the point… "urgency" might not be the right term, but, rather, a look at why we're bad at home compared to the two above clubs

And in my opinion, our lack of taking the game by the scruff of the neck is a big part of that problem. I dont think we approach games against the smaller teams the right way. I think we are too relaxed, too slow and lack leadership. Thats my conclusion.

Our problems are not dependent on other teams problems.

If we play shit, its not cancelled out because Chelsea also played shit.

 

[Blanchflower]

The point is that I do not want to "swap" results to "balance out" playing shit against shit teams. I am talking about real life.

No. You want us never to drop points in games you think we should win.

You're simply being unrealistic.

In an ideal world we'd have played Wigan twice early in the season when they can't be fucked and would just have to play people who are already 'on the beach' (FUCKING JOL & BERBA!!).....

 

[Éperons]

Our problems are not dependent on other teams problems.

If we play shit, its not cancelled out because Chelsea also played shit.

I include results of other clubs for context. A persistent concern of mine in talking about Spurs is trying to figure out what is "normal" for a top 5 club and what could be considered "Spursy". I think we have been uncharacteristically "bad" (for a top 5 club) at home–our home record is poor in comparison to our local competition (WW, Chelsea, Everton). You have to get to Liverpool before a top club starts showing as few wins at home as we have. Yet despite our crap home record, we're still in fifth with a shout for better position, which means that we're atypically good away.

So those two parts are Spursy. But being unable to shut the door against opponents below you in the table seems to be something that all top clubs deal with.

For example, here is a comparison to Woolwich:

At home, the average place of teams we've beaten is 11.4. Drawn: 8.2. Lost: 11
For the Wanderers: 13.8, 9.75, 5

So though we both have three home losses apiece, theirs were to the 2nd, 4th, and 9th place teams, where ours were to 4th, 11th, and 18th. That loss to Wigan was completely unacceptable.

But in terms of draws, and given the sample size, the numbers even out. They drew to 6th, 7th, 11th, and 15th. We drew to 1st, 6th, 8th, 12th, and 14th. I'd consider that basically a complete wash.

Which then explains why the average place of teams that we've defeated at home is slightly better than Woolwich's. If you add Wigan's 18th place to our win result, we would edge up to 12.1. And who knows, our numbers and Woolwich's might even out once they've welcomed Wigan and Man U to their poopden.

I get what you're saying… we should be beating bottom teams, and I agree. But I also maintain that every season is going to have a certain number of matches that are blips, where a bottom-five team takes three points from us at home, say. And I don't have evidence that Spurs are more likely than other clubs to have those kinds of "blips", especially when so much boils down to merely moving one match—Wigan home—from the L column to the W column. If we had beaten Wigan at home, we would be above Woolwich, etc., etc.

Anyway, I get the sense I'm going in circles here, so I'll stop.

 

[Éperons]

But I also maintain that every season is going to have a certain number of matches that are blips, where a bottom-five team takes three points from us at home, say. And I don't have evidence that Spurs are more likely than other clubs to have those kinds of "blips"

I guess that sounds positively Redknappian, in a sort of "football's a funny game" sense. Maybe that's right. So I wonder if there's a comparison between last year's "complacency" and this year's.

Maybe. Last year, we had three home losses, to 1st, 2nd, and 12th places. We've already had three home losses this year. We also had only three home draws: 6th, 14th, and 20th. Our peers did similarly: WW also had three home losses and four home draws. Chelsea had four losses and three draws. Things get messy from seventh place down. So we can postulate that a third, fourth, and fifth place team is likely to drop points about six to eight times at home per season. So it's not just Spurs.

But continuing in the Redknappian vein, in those terms, we were a more formidable squad last year. Like an Under Armour advert, we protected our house. But unlike this year, we only managed seven away victories (we have nine this season already).

The variance is tight enough to possibly still be within the realm of random fluctuation, but there's a good narrative about Spurs this season that explains the discrepancy, as well: we don't have the players (Modrić, an in form striker) to break down teams that park the bus at WHL and/or teams are more likely to park the bus at WHL this year than last. Similarly, we are better at playing an open game when away from home. (We failed to score six times away last year; it's happened once this season).

 

[Arjun]

We definitely didn't have the driving force that we've shown we're capable of this year. Even when Wigan went up we didn't pressurise them the way other clubs do. Not sure why that was, Wigan were organised but we should've been a lot more dominating considering the types of players we have.

On the leadership thing, Jan was a great leader for Ajax but like Hugo, he hasn't even finished a whole season with us. I'm sure both of them could become leaders in the future for us.

 

[sammyspurs]

No. You want us never to drop points in games you think we should win.

Do I? Is that why I said on page one of this thread:

I expect to lose points to these teams sometimes, but not as often than we do, and certainly not as much at home.

And on page two of this thread:

I expect to lose matches or points to lower teams, just not as often, and with far more effort to actually dominate them before conceding a bad result.

Funnily enough, both answer's were directly to you.

 

[Éperons]

So we can postulate that a third, fourth, and fifth place team is likely to drop points about six to eight times at home per season. So it's not just Spurs.

Here are the results for the past five seasons. These are the number of matches in which a club has dropped points at home (blue background is Spurs):

As we can see, it's pretty normal for top 5 (non-champion) clubs to drop points between four and eight times at home per season. The average between second and fifth places is to drop points 6.55 times per season.

My eyes hurt from counting, so I didn't break it down based on how many points were dropped, but I could do that later. So save 2010/2011, it doesn't look like Spurs have been dropping points at home at a particularly alarming rate in comparison to their peer clubs.

So basically, if we tighten up our play at home, we're winning the league next year!

 

[sammyspurs]

So basically, if we tighten up our play at home, we're winning the league next year!

Kind of my entire point.

Only that you are saying its not really an issue.

 

[1882]

All this thread does is to prove that WHEN we lose a game early in the season, to someone like Wigan, and people react badly to it, and are subsequently accused of 'knee-jerking'.... THIS is why those types of defeats hurt so much...
Doesn't matter when in the season it comes, the 5 points dropped to Wigan this season are hurting us as much now, as at ANY point in the season. You don't drop less points if you drop 'em early on!

And wouldn't you know, Chelsea have cunting scored!

 

[Anurag Jo]

The OP has it spot on.

I gotta say this,there is a contrasting difference between how we and Chelsea or Woolwich are playing football right now.They are playing swift passes and their players are showing the desperation and urgency that is needed for a top 4.

We waste so much time passing amongst our back four.And this wasnt just Wigan.This has been a regular theme throughout the season.We take painstakingly long time to get the ball out of our own half.I guess this has been mainly due to the absence of Sandro and Modricesque midfielder who can control the game.

 

[PhillyHotspur]

The OP has it spot on.

I gotta say this,there is a contrasting difference between how we and Chelsea or Woolwich are playing football right now.They are playing swift passes and their players are showing the desperation and urgency that is needed for a top 4.

We waste so much time passing amongst our back four.And this wasnt just Wigan.This has been a regular theme throughout the season.We take painstakingly long time to get the ball out of our own half.I guess this has been mainly due to the absence of Sandro and Modricesque midfielder who can control the game.

Dawson was pulling most of the strings yesterday on creating chances via a pass from behind

Revealing

 

[Kalyl]

Dawson was pulling most of the strings yesterday on creating chances via a pass from behind

Revealing

That's not really surprising as teams know you only have to stop JV and Huddleton getting on the ball as parker will do nothing with it... had Huddlestone been more moveable and able to get himself into space and Holtby been on the pitch instead of Parker the opposition all of a sudden have five players to look after when we try to play out the back cause then you have Dawson who has proved capable of playing from the back. JV who we all know is exceptional at it. Huddlestone who can move a bit more freely and drop a little deeper to drag a defender further out of position, Holtby who moves about and is almost always an option and unlike Parker capable of getting out of a toughspot and play it forward. And last but not least Dembele who is a tank

 

[PhillyHotspur]

That's not really surprising as teams know you only have to stop JV and Huddleton getting on the ball as parker will do nothing with it... had Huddlestone been more moveable and able to get himself into space and Holtby been on the pitch instead of Parker the opposition all of a sudden have five players to look after when we try to play out the back cause then you have Dawson who has proved capable of playing from the back. JV who we all know is exceptional at it. Huddlestone who can move a bit more freely and drop a little deeper to drag a defender further out of position, Holtby who moves about and is almost always an option and unlike Parker capable of getting out of a toughspot and play it forward. And last but not least Dembele who is a tank

Much agreed. Vs a lesser club where we simply don't need Parker's defensive prowess and need that extra layer in the attack, he needs to sit. Plus, Holtby has shown a Parker-like ability where he can press and add a bit of teeth defensively. I just dont understand how Parker is an automatic selection every weekend. He serves a purpose, but his limitations are so obvious to all outside of AVB.

Frustrating to say the least

 

[Hegarz]

What does my head is as mentioned earlier, is we don't seem to put teams to bed
at all. When we do score first we take our foot off the gas and end up having to fight back for a result.

As with the urgency I know exactly what you mean, many times I find myself sitting here screaming at the TV telling them going forward there's 5 fucking minutes left, while they lackadaisically pass the ball back to the keeper.

Holtby is a breathe of fresh air with his one touch passing, it's something I wish the rest of the team would try an incorporate more, because the beauty of it, is how well it spreads the play. Instead of taking time on the ball and being boxed out by a pressing midfield, they are chasing back and forth trying to keep up with play.

 

[sammyspurs]

lackadaisically

Blatant "I googled spelling this time" post

 

[WindyCOYS]

The OP has it spot on.

I gotta say this,there is a contrasting difference between how we and Chelsea or Woolwich are playing football right now.They are playing swift passes and their players are showing the desperation and urgency that is needed for a top 4.

We waste so much time passing amongst our back four.And this wasnt just Wigan.This has been a regular theme throughout the season.We take painstakingly long time to get the ball out of our own half.I guess this has been mainly due to the absence of Sandro and Modricesque midfielder who can control the game.

Disagree.
Woolwich have been really poor in their last few and have got lucky/ground out results.

 

[Anurag Jo]

Disagree.
Woolwich have been really poor in their last few and have got lucky/ground out results.

Still better than us.We have been comically shit.Even against City we only looked good after 70 mins.Before that we looked terribly disjointed.

 

[sammyspurs]

Disagree.
Woolwich have been really poor in their last few and have got lucky/ground out results.

Since losing to us 7 games ago, Woolwich have taken 17pts from 21. You lump luck and grinding out results in the same bracket, as if grinding out results is a trait out of their control.

If we could grind out results more often, we would have taken more than 8 points out of the possible 18 since beating them, and maybe even still had a chance of a trophy.

Let me ask you this, are you content with our style of play, our intensity and results against lower teams?

Bare in mind, I dont care about how anyone else is playing, its not relevant.

 

[NorseYid]

While I agree that we lacked urgency against Wigan yesterday are you all forgetting the urgency that we showed to rip apart Man City last week... You don't get too much more urgent than 3 goals in 7 minutes. But as someone rightly mentioned earlier the measured and at times slow approach play is in part a good thing a sign that we don't panic we just need a cutting edge, other than Bale to make the final cut, so to speak.

The times that we look able to up the tempo and show some urgency is when teams need to come at us, our best weapon is the counter attack and that simply wasn't an option against a Wigan side with 11 behind the ball. That doesn't mean that we should panic and lump long balls to JD or anyone else for that matter.

Part of the problem yesterday was the lack of balance in the midfield caused by at absence of Dembele and Lennon. Our midfield works best with those two in it. Lennon is more crucial than a number of people realise, he provides a foil for Bale, whereby he occupies the defenders even when he doesn't have the ball because they have to be wary of his threat. He also supplies much needed width, something that we thrive on as we proved against Man City. When in the second half we got a bit wider and reaped the benefits.

... but that is exactly what this thread is about.

Showing urgency and drive, not just waiting for teams to run themselves against the sword against us.

So yeah, we very much lack urgency, drive, proactivity. Players taking some bloody responsibility to make things happen.

 

[NorseYid]

The OP has it spot on.

I gotta say this,there is a contrasting difference between how we and Chelsea or Woolwich are playing football right now.They are playing swift passes and their players are showing the desperation and urgency that is needed for a top 4.

We waste so much time passing amongst our back four.And this wasnt just Wigan.This has been a regular theme throughout the season.We take painstakingly long time to get the ball out of our own half.I guess this has been mainly due to the absence of Sandro and Modricesque midfielder who can control the game.

You hit the nail on the head there.

I cannot understand why some posters are trying to relativise it with stats and stuff. We are talking football here. The world and the dog can see, that our back 4 and central midfield are too slow on the ball, that our forwards and wingers are too static and that we lack a coherent gameplan in the final third.

It is so obvious just watching those games.