Jose Mourinho

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

It seems so far away now, but that season was so enjoyable, often times it seemed like the entire squad just clicked to create something magical.
That season was now 4 years ago and ended in embarrassment and shame and the manager saying “I wanted to kill all of them” publicly.

The year before, Jose won a double with Chelsea. PL and CC.
The year after, he won a treble with Utd. EL, CC, Super Cup.

This makes him past it, but sandwiched in between was the year we couldn’t beat Leicester despite having the best team in a generation and playing this exhilarating football, and finished third.

And that makes Poch the right man for the Spurs job.

You couldn’t make it up.
 
Skimmed over the last 10 pages; a lot of good posts from sammyspurs sammyspurs Bazali Bazali Brian Fantana Brian Fantana and others.

Jose built his career on being tight at the back and while we haven't seen that as much as we would've liked yet, the pragmatic approach he uses isn't exactly surprising. What's more surprising is people believe that with Kane and Son injured we're going to go and try batter RB Leipzig 3-0 in the knockout stages of the CL without any care defensively or try and take on Chelsea in their own back yard in a game they're 100% going to be fired up for. I don't agree with the way Mourinho is starting to play things in the media but once again it's not surprising and Poch, as well as many other managers say a lot of stupid shit ("I would've left after the CL final had we won").

I feel like I could probably write a dissertation on the past 5-6 years at Spurs but luckily Sammy does it for me. No trophies, best team in a generation, no plan B, a lot of great, attacking football, a lot of dross but ultimately he didn't want to be here anymore and it was time to move on. It seems like people are choosing to only remember certain aspects because for every Ajax 2-3 there was a Brighton 3-0. Nobody (I don't think?) is denying Poch was great for us but people seem to get caught up with ridiculous hyperbole because let's face it, I'm sure in 50 years time when people talk about Spurs' success, they don't mention that season where we came 3rd behind Leicester/Woolwich or the time we reached the CL final.

I said in the Eriksen thread a while back that the player isn't as good as people make out, it's the fact that we have no other creative player meaning all of our creativity comes through him = over inflated opinion. Lo Celso starts to perform recently and everyone is falling over themselves to tell us how good is he yet 6 months ago Eriksen was irreplaceable according to some on here? The fact that people are conveniently amending their opinion of Poch because of how they feel about Jose and his tactics with a depleted squad tells you all you need to know about how objectively they are able to look at things.
 
Skimmed over the last 10 pages; a lot of good posts from sammyspurs sammyspurs Bazali Bazali Brian Fantana Brian Fantana and others.

Jose built his career on being tight at the back and while we haven't seen that as much as we would've liked yet, the pragmatic approach he uses isn't exactly surprising. What's more surprising is people believe that with Kane and Son injured we're going to go and try batter RB Leipzig 3-0 in the knockout stages of the CL without any care defensively or try and take on Chelsea in their own back yard in a game they're 100% going to be fired up for. I don't agree with the way Mourinho is starting to play things in the media but once again it's not surprising and Poch, as well as many other managers say a lot of stupid shit ("I would've left after the CL final had we won").

I feel like I could probably write a dissertation on the past 5-6 years at Spurs but luckily Sammy does it for me. No trophies, best team in a generation, no plan B, a lot of great, attacking football, a lot of dross but ultimately he didn't want to be here anymore and it was time to move on. It seems like people are choosing to only remember certain aspects because for every Ajax 2-3 there was a Brighton 3-0. Nobody (I don't think?) is denying Poch was great for us but people seem to get caught up with ridiculous hyperbole because let's face it, I'm sure in 50 years time when people talk about Spurs' success, they don't mention that season where we came 3rd behind Leicester/Woolwich or the time we reached the CL final.

I said in the Eriksen thread a while back that the player isn't as good as people make out, it's the fact that we have no other creative player meaning all of our creativity comes through him = over inflated opinion. Lo Celso starts to perform recently and everyone is falling over themselves to tell us how good is he yet 6 months ago Eriksen was irreplaceable according to some on here? The fact that people are conveniently amending their opinion of Poch because of how they feel about Jose and his tactics with a depleted squad tells you all you need to know about how objectively they are able to look at things.
Excellent post.
Especially the bit about meeeeeeee
 
I think Redknapp got 4th twice and a CL quarter when everyone expected 12th and had us playing brilliant football with a far less talented overall squad, despite two standout players.

He’s also won a trophy in his career
What a joke comment. Who expected 12th? I’m quite sure most of the fans at that time were thinking that we could break into the old top 4. The season when Ramos got sacked was just a set back.

And well done comparing a manager whose career spanned for 20+ years with another manager who’s managed for 7-8 years.
 
The only caveat to this I think is that sometimes players need the luck, circumstance and opportunity to flourish. Dortmund is a great example of the right environment to develop.

Look at Dele, if we were just introducing him into the team now a lot of people would be calling him a championship player. Gnabry couldn’t make the West Brom first XI, now he’s destroyed both us and Chelsea this season.
I agree. Right time & place. Some don't get given many chances so it's tough to prove yourself at a top team in so little time. You have done well if you produce 1 starting 11 player every 2-3 years these days.
 
What a joke comment. Who expected 12th? I’m quite sure most of the fans at that time were thinking that we could break into the old top 4. The season when Ramos got sacked was just a set back.

And well done comparing a manager whose career spanned for 20+ years with another manager who’s managed for 7-8 years.
He was brought in to stop relegation.
You clearly have no idea at just how laughable the notion of Spurs playing in the CL was back then.
Even under Jol finishing 1pt off 4th it was just never taken seriously by anyone most of all spurs fans.

Redknapp finished 4th, 5th, 4th in full seasons.
Took us from bottom to an 8th place finish in his first season and got us to a cup final and a CL quarter the year we came 5th.
That was in 3.5 seasons.

Poch in 5.5 seasons finished 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, then left us in 14th.
He lost 2 finals, got us to the CL final and lost 3 semis.

Harry managed 20 odd years and won a trophy.
Poch has managed for 11 years and won nothing.

I don’t see a big enough gulf there where one is considered world class, and the other is seen as Sunday League
 
Last edited:
What does that even mean? I own some cashmere crew and v necks, but no polo necks. Who’s outed me? And what as?

Look Baz, if you seriously want to do this, then go on a course, stop drinking, and learn the language of your forebears - that’s English isn’t it? Until then, fuck off with your wank teddies.

Pip pip.

I thought your polo neck showed off your wig nicely

Don’t be so hard on yourself Cider Boy
 
It’s also funny the notion that Redknapps trophy was nothing, yet he did it with a tiny club. Then people say Jose’s 22 trophies don’t count because he did it at big clubs.

People then say that Poch was shafted and didn’t stand a chance because he didn’t have enough money lavished on him.

So Poch can only do it at a big club that spends a lot (total speculation by the way) but for Jose that proves nothing.
 
What a joke comment. Who expected 12th? I’m quite sure most of the fans at that time were thinking that we could break into the old top 4. The season when Ramos got sacked was just a set back.

And well done comparing a manager whose career spanned for 20+ years with another manager who’s managed for 7-8 years.
Ferguson thought we were title contenders.
“Tottenham at the moment are the best team in the country. Their form at the moment is the best anywhere and they are definitely title contenders".

And Redknapp himself said "he didn't think we were that far away for winning the Championship because I think it's levelling out".


(Fuck we've come a long way from The Lodge)
 
I’ve never been a fan of Redknapp as a person but we played some great stuff under him. I’d say as a whole better than Poch but Poch never threw away 11 point leads and fourth place. Sure Poch May have taken his eye off the ball in the 6 months before he left us but nothing like Redknapp. They are interesting comparable times. Hypothetically I wonder what would of happened with the managers swapping and managing each other’s teams. Probably thereabouts the same result I reckon. They’re both good motivators but not the best tactically. Redknapp probably shades it over Poch in terms of in game management though.

Anyway, if Mourinho wants to know anything about our playing history that he already doesn’t, he only needs to go back and look at the good times during both those managers times at the club. Not that he would, we didn’t win anything…
 
2020-02-23-3.jpg




whilst looking for this I also found this

Tottenham Characteristics
+ Strengths
Finishing scoring chancesStrong
Counter attacksStrong
Creating long shot opportunitiesStrong
Creating chances using through ballsStrong
Creating chances through individual skillStrong
- Weaknesses
Avoiding offsideWeak
Defending against attacks down the wingsWeak
Defending against long shotsWeak
Defending against through ball attacksWeak
Avoiding fouling in dangerous areasWeak
Aerial duelsWeak
Avoiding individual errorsWeak
Protecting the leadWeak
Stopping opponents from creating chancesWeak

Tottenham's Style of Play
  • Attempt through balls often
  • Attack through the middle
  • Short passes
  • Take long shots
  • Aggressive
  • Opponents play aggressively against them
  • Rotate their first eleven

:sonhmm:


Seriously? An info graphic?
Do you not notice players moving during the football match? It's not table football.
 
I’ve never been a fan of Redknapp as a person but we played some great stuff under him. I’d say as a whole better than Poch but Poch never threw away 11 point leads and fourth place. Sure Poch May have taken his eye off the ball in the 6 months before he left us but nothing like Redknapp. They are interesting comparable times. Hypothetically I wonder what would of happened with the managers swapping and managing each other’s teams. Probably thereabouts the same result I reckon. They’re both good motivators but not the best tactically. Redknapp probably shades it over Poch in terms of in game management though.

Anyway, if Mourinho wants to know anything about our playing history that he already doesn’t, he only needs to go back and look at the good times during both those managers times at the club. Not that he would, we didn’t win anything…

What was the lead we had over the Scum that Poch threw away when we finished 3rd?
 
Oliver Kay's piece from The Athletic:



The past is where Jose Mourinho used to seek refuge in times of trouble. It is a place that might be likened to Aladdin’s cave of wonders, with trophies and medals piled high. Twenty-six titles, as he might have mentioned once or twice while insisting it should really be 31.

Over time, though, returns have diminished, rivals have emerged and the “Special One” aura has faded somewhat. Memories of an upstart coach lording it over European football’s aristocracy have been replaced by those of his miserable final months at Chelsea and Manchester United, where he turned every match and every press conference into a war of attrition. Regarding him through the prism of his often-glorious past no longer guarantees quite such a flattering perspective.

If we have learned anything conclusive during his first three months in charge at Tottenham Hotspur, it is that, for better or increasingly for worse, his past now stalks him at every turn. Win a game and he will find himself lauded for a “Mourinho masterclass”. Lose a game, as he did at his former club Chelsea on Saturday, and he will be lambasted for negativity. There is so little middle ground, which is is all the stranger given that his work so far has been… well, fair to middling.

When Mourinho took over from Mauricio Pochettino on November 20, Tottenham were 14th in the Premier League, 11 points adrift of the top four. Fifteen games later, they are sixth, four points behind fourth-placed Chelsea, hence the overwhelming sense of an opportunity missed when they lost 2-1 at Stamford Bridge on Saturday. Eight wins from his first 15 Premier League games in charge would best be described as solid rather than spectacular but only Liverpool and Manchester City have taken more points over that period.

In other words, Mourinho is doing OK. Yes, this is a group of players that reached the Champions League final last season but they had also won just six of their final 24 Premier League matches under their previous manager. Pochettino did an excellent job, inspiring a level of individual and collective improvement, raising expectations and standards, but things went stale and, sadly, there no longer seemed to be the energy, on either side, to get things on track. The inevitable change has brought an improvement, albeit not on the scale hinted at when they won their first three games under Mourinho.

The fascination with Mourinho brings a temptation — always — to judge from game to game, even from press conference to press conference. Every manager’s tactics, utterances and body languages are analysed these days but none with such rigour as his. We are always searching for an immediate judgment, usually one in keeping with an established, entrenched viewpoint based on a career that has brought so many highs but also a few notable lows.

I’m saying this as someone who has questioned Mourinho’s past two appointments and rarely sung his praises since he led Chelsea to a third Premier League title in 2015. His final months at Stamford Bridge seemed like a masterclass in how to lose friends and alienate people. Things unravelled in his third season at Manchester United, too — and, while he might still claim that leading them to a runners-up finish in year two was one of his greatest achievements, it rarely felt like he was building anything of substance. His approach in recent years has been to paper and, where possible, gloss over cracks. He has won trophies but it has all turned sour very quickly after that.

At Tottenham, though, his first task, his overriding priority, has been to paper over the cracks that appeared towards the end of Pochettino’s tenure. He did that for the first few weeks but then came an injury to Harry Kane, the failure to sign cover during the January transfer and now the loss of Son Heung-min for the foreseeable future. The cracks widened once more with defeats by RB Leipzig and Chelsea, games in which Tottenham struggled in the absence of an attacking outlet. In the absence of Kane and Son, his two most reliable goalscorers, Mourinho spoke on Saturday about needing to adopt “strange game plans”, such as playing Steven Bergwijn atop a 5-4-1 formation. There was, he said, “not another way”.

Some supporters point to the potential of Troy Parrott but, unless all other options have been exhausted, Mourinho is not the type to put his faith in a centre-forward who has just turned 18. Not many managers are. Kane, at the same age, had three years of mostly-difficult loan spells ahead of him before his form in the Europa League, combined with the struggles of Roberto Soldado and Emmanuel Adebayor, earned him an opportunity he seized with both hands. Marcus Rashford’s breakthrough as an 18-year-old at Manchester United, under Louis van Gaal in 2016, came as a result of an injury crisis even more extreme than Tottenham’s right now.

For Mourinho, a centre-forward is not just someone to carry the goalscoring burden. It is one of several fixed points in a line-up. There was a moment during Liverpool’s 1-0 win at Tottenham last month when Gary Neville, in the commentary box, lauded the exceptional talents of Roberto Firmino, suggesting that “any manager in the world would love to have him as their centre-forward”; but it was not quite true. It takes a certain type of coach to build his forward line around a player such as Firmino. Mourinho has never been that type. It is not because the Liverpool player lacks the consistent goal threat of a Kane, more a question of the rugged qualities that the Tottenham manager looks for in centre-forwards — “a striker, what I call a No 9, a target man,” as he put it recently. Son, he spelt out, “is not a striker”.

With all of this in mind, it seems extraordinary that Tottenham failed to sign a traditional centre-forward in January to cover Kane’s absence. Olivier Giroud remained a serious target as late as transfer deadline day but Chelsea blocked that move and, looking at it now, you wonder whether they were toying with their London rivals. United might have attracted some derision when they signed Odion Ighalo on loan from Shanghai Shenhua but one suspects that Mourinho, after Tottenham’s unsuccessful late play for the former Watford forward, was more disappointed than he has been willing to let on at this early stage of his tenure.

By goodness he is gloomy, though. Some managers go to extraordinary, excruciating lengths to accentuate the positives in defeat. Mourinho often goes to the other extreme. On Saturday, he warned of a “long, difficult” few months ahead for Tottenham, saying that the immediate situation “cannot be better, can only be worse.” It is a classic case of expectation management — underpromise, overdeliver — but it seems remarkably, disconcertingly dour in the age of Jurgen Klopp, Pep Guardiola, Brendan Rodgers and a new wave of coaches who steadfastly avoid setting such a negative tone in their public pronouncements.

One of the main challenges for Mourinho is to avoid such negativity taking hold of Tottenham now that it seems fair to say his honeymoon period — those three early wins, that cute stunt with the ball-boy, the disarming smiles and wisecracks in press conferences and yet another round of “Oh, isn’t he so much more mellow this time?” — is over. There have been some welcome shows of spirit, the late winners at Wolverhampton Wanderers and Aston Villa and weathering an almighty storm before overcoming Manchester City, but, in terms of performances, it sometimes feels as if that papering-over-the-cracks aspect of the task has rendered all else irrelevant.

So far, Mourinho has earned 1.73 points per game at Tottenham. Broadly speaking, in a typical season, that would be top-six form rather than top-four form. Among that spate of high-profile appointments before the turn of the year, that puts him below Carlo Ancelotti at Everton (1.89 points per game) and ahead of Mikel Arteta at Woolwich (1.55 points per game). In all three cases, that is an improvement on their predecessor. In Arteta’s case, the upturn in performance has been more noticeable than that in results. In Mourinho’s case, it has probably been the opposite, which he would probably say is just as well.

For a different kind of comparison, with another manager who took over a squad in a state of dysfunction following a troubled start to a season, Klopp won six, drew four and lost five of his first 15 Premier League games after joining Liverpool in October 2015. The defeats were terrible (3-0 at Watford, 2-0 at Newcastle United and West Ham United, 2-1 at home to Crystal Palace), in keeping with what was to be an inconsistent run, but some of those early victories (3-1 at Mourinho’s Chelsea, 4-1 at Manchester City and, in the League Cup, 6-1 away to Southampton) set a standard, as the season went on, that was met with ever greater consistency over the next four years.

Even at that terribly inconsistent stage, with line-ups that were almost unrecognisable from the one that beat Tottenham in last season’s Champions League final, you could see what Klopp was trying to achieve. There was speed, there was energy and there was more fluency in Liverpool’s attacking play. Arteta is clearly trying to do something similar with Woolwich. That same kind of stylistic progression has been little in evidence so far at Tottenham. It is all about results and, if Mourinho’s delivers Champions League qualification or indeed the FA Cup, there will be no cause for him apologise for the way such objectives were achieved.

There remains something incongruous about Mourinho as Tottenham manager. Not as incongruous as George Graham in the same position a couple of decades ago but it still feels strange that things unravelled like that for Pochettino, whose philosophy had been so fundamental to the club’s resurgence, and that the Argentinian’s legacy was entrusted to a manager with such a markedly different approach. A personal view, at the time of Pochettino’s departure, was that they needed to find someone who would continue his work, rather than head off in a different direction.

It is what it is, though, and, just as three wins in his first week in charge didn’t make Mourinho’s appointment a masterstroke, neither do back-to-back defeats, with his two most reliable goalscorers missing, make him a disaster. Even now, for all his warnings about difficult times ahead, this season offers more possibilities than it did at the time of his arrival. Cracks have been papered over and, so far at least, results have picked up.

If we were calling it a first-quarter performance review, there would be signs of encouragement and some equally obvious areas for improvement. The time for more serious, weighty appraisals will come next season, when he has had more time to implement his ideas and, one hopes, to look beyond the short term. It might go against the grain where Mourinho is concerned but we really are going to have to defer judgment for a while at least.
 
Poch never threw away 11 point leads and fourth place.
I’m going to get pedantic here because Arry actually came 4th that year but Bayern and Barca thought they could walk past Chelsea and the unthinkable happened.
And true to form, we were the last team to suffer from it as they changed the rules next season.

Coupled with the fact he was facing court charges through half the season, I don’t think our form dipping was that strange.

The Leicester season we did indeed capitulate a ten point gap on Woolwich and finished behind them, and have been mocked ever since over the two horse race thing.
Also last season, we threw away a comfortable lead over Woolwich and scraped 4th
 
6 points with 6 games to go. Incomparable to the epic collaps(es) under Harry, whom I loved but for this reason he had to go IMO. We had a pretty bad collapse under AVB's first season too
Harry came 4th though
Did you expect 3rd from him? Seems like people can’t rate Poch that highly after all if Redknapp should be walking into 3rd with Alan Hutton
 
What is it about Nagelsmann that makes you think he isn't ready? Has his relative inexperience been shown up a lot in his time in the BuLi?

And who is the Marco Rose guy? Sounds interesting. Is he Italian or S American? I've not seen his name thrown around these parts? Were we interested? What's his preferred style of play?

Rose has done more in Germany than Nagelsmann, all be it in the second division but also won’t the league in Austria and currently doing well in Germany.

I’m going to get pedantic here because Arry actually came 4th that year but Bayern and Barca thought they could walk past Chelsea and the unthinkable happened.
And true to form, we were the last team to suffer from it as they changed the rules next season.

Coupled with the fact he was facing court charges through half the season, I don’t think our form dipping was that strange.

The Leicester season we did indeed capitulate a ten point gap on Woolwich and finished behind them, and have been mocked ever since over the two horse race thing.
Also last season, we threw away a comfortable lead over Woolwich and scraped 4th

Don't get me wrong I liked Harry but I would say the prospect of the England job was more the reason he got side tracked.
 
Back
Top Bottom