Perhaps that's why Proud Lilywhites needs to have a stated aim, I'm all for equality and therefore I don't want one group to be more important than another.
The overriding reason to go to a Spurs game is to support Spurs, we need to keep it simple.
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Perhaps that's why Proud Lilywhites needs to have a stated aim, I'm all for equality and therefore I don't want one group to be more important than another.
The overriding reason to go to a Spurs game is to support Spurs, we need to keep it simple.
They are. Never, ever, ever - in my life - have I witnessed a straight couple receive any abuse for it. And I have seen PLENTY of straight people who are very obvious couples! What you're saying amounts to "it's okay to be gay, as long as you hide it and just pretend your straight". That doesn't make it okay at all. It means we can only be tolerated if we pretend not to exist - it shows we're never going to be welcomed or accepted. That is what puts people off coming to the football. That is why groups like the Proud Lilywhites are very sorely needed. They're not here because homosexual exist - they're here because homophobes exist.
Nobody is forcing their sexuality on you. Contrary to popular belief we don't want to turn all the peoples gay, or to make you give us a round of bloody applause. We just want to be left to get on with our lives like everyone else. No straight person who takes their girlfriend to the game or dares to walk in the street with her is accused of this nonsense. Nobody says sexuality is being forced on them when a straight couple are on their TV show. Strangely, this rule only seems to apply to gay people. I wonder why that is...
I get your points and I'm sorry that people decided to show their bigotry at your simple act of holding your partners hand, however I wouldn't agree that this big flag is the solution. As you can see on here and on Twitter it.... i'm not inclined to say provokes, but it brings out a hostile reception.Nobody is forcing their sexuality on you. Contrary to popular belief we don't want to turn all the peoples gay, or to make you give us a round of bloody applause. We just want to be left to get on with our lives like everyone else. No straight person who takes their girlfriend to the game or dares to walk in the street with her is accused of this nonsense. Nobody says sexuality is being forced on them when a straight couple are on their TV show. Strangely, this rule only seems to apply to gay people. I wonder why that is...
That's is quite the opposite of what I'm saying. If I see a bloke walking down the road holding hands with his missus, I think "fuck of you nobs". I silently judge them then move on with my life.
If I see two gay guys walking down the road I think "fuck of you nobs". I silently judge and move on.
Oooooh were together and happy as a couple. We have two snotty nosed kids who are dressed in gap head to toe. Let's go to costa and check ourselves in on facebook.
NO ONE CARES!!
we all have our shitty lives to revel in, please, please don't expose me to your affection, gay straight or otherwise. Feel free to go home and fuck each other senseless. I'm not fucking interested.
YOU ARE NOT IMPORTANT. I AM NOT IMPORTANT.
Ebola is important. A solar flare frying the national grid and sending us to the dark ages is important.
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He's an ugly mess isn't he?
I'm going to abuse the next straight couple I see holding hands, just to level things up for CLS so he doesn't feel so put upon.
Wow, you seem like a barrel of laughs.
I'm sure you're just jumping to conclusions, but you've twisted my words completely. All i mean is, if you act like a prick, people will call you out. If a gay couple acted the same as a straight couple, I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be a problem. But someone acting like a prick is a prick regardless of their sexual orientation. No one should be treated differently because they're gay, and being gay shouldn't mean you behave differently or expect different treatment. Im not saying "if you go and pretend to be straight there won't be a problem" I'm saying "if you go and act like regular members of society why would the fact you're gay even coming up"
Why don't you feel there is equality? I can't agree with that at all. As for discrimination against straight people, thats bullshit too. Its the classic argument of, if you can take the piss out of a friend for their looks, or music taste, why can't you take the piss out of them for being gay.
Anyway, are you talking about football or general society? The only discrimination I've heard at football is that c*mpbell is a judas cunt. The vast majority of people at football couldn't give a shit about anything else. Im sure there are homophobic people in the crowd but its a tiny tiny minority. The same as in wider society, the fact is the older generations grew up thinking it was wrong to be gay, we're hardly going to change their mindsets now, can't teach an old dog new tricks and all that. Personally i reckon within 20 years homophobia won't even be an issue. Not in this country at least. Just a matter of British society growing out of it.
Whilst i get your point, I've mocked plenty of straight people holding hands in public, or kissing, or any PDA. If you do that shit in public you open yourselves up to mocking because its clearly attention seeking. In fact, surely if i saw 2 gay men kissing in public, and i didn't say something, that would make me homophobic, because I'm treating them differently to how id treat 2 straight people?
I've stayed away from searching for it on Twitter to be honest. Maybe the flag isn't the solution, it certainly isn't enough on it's own. But we need to be able to discuss what the solution is, not have people react with such hostility - especially when it's just cause they don't like the flag rather than actually care about the issue
That's great. Unfortunately, whilst you manage to keep your opinions to yourself whatever the sexualities involved, some people are incapable of that. Just because you don't get involved in homophobic abuse doesn't mean it isn't an issue any more.
Okay, but what would a gay couple be doing that would make them "pricks" to you. And it might come up if I were to turn up to my normal seat, and introduce the guy I've bought as my boyfriend to the people who sit next to me whom I talk to every game for instance, rather than lie and just say he's a friend. Or countless other ways to be honest.
I feel there isn't equality here primarily because gay people are far more likely to suffer both verbal and physical abuse for their sexuality than straight people. And I don't define that as the normal banter or whatever, you can take the piss, that's fine, it happens all the time to everyone as you say.
And I've said in this thread, I agree with you there. The vast majority of people are fine. The problem is that it doesn't matter if 29,999 people are completely fine with it. If 1 ends up assaulting me in the street then that's still pretty bad for me no matter how nice everyone else is. And yes, that is something that happens to countless people! We can talk about how it's best to tackle homophobia, but to pretend it's just not an issue for gay people to go to the football is simply false.
Not talking about mocking here. More along the lines of persistent shouting, swearing, aggression and threats of physical abuse which I have no way of knowing if they're serious about or not.
The same thing a straight couple could do to be pricks. You're labelling people here as well, do you identify yourself as a normal member of society, or do you identify yourself as a homosexual. If you look at yourself differently, how can you judge others for doing the same? If you don't feel comfortable introducing your boyfriend to people you talk to all the time, that says to me that you aren't comfortable with who you are and that you seek approval from others. You come across as insecure. If you feel you can't be yourself around the people you sit near, then A) their opinion obviously doesn't matter to you and B) why are you talking to them anyway.
If you want to hold hands with your boyfriend at the football, there'll be 1000 times more people that don't care than that do. There are dickheads wherever you go mate, don't let it get to you. And are you talking about physical assault? or verbal? I'm not saying its not an issue at all, because there are people out there that are homophobic. But fuck them people. If someone says something to you, ignore them. They're the twats not you. Are you saying no one has ever mocked you for something else? Some people are just cunts and they'll call you out for anything that stands out. They'll do it to everyone though, thats not necessarily homophobia, thats just people being a cunt. I've been in pubs before and some drunk cunt has called me out for being tall, i don't give a shit, i am tall, i didn't choose to be this way, so i just ignored it.
I still hear the odd homophobic language at WHL from some of the giant bells that make up our support (sometimes from kids). Often is an awkward silence after you hear it, too. It's a hangover from a different time by people who cling on to their sad masculinity complexes and I'm sure it will fade completely soon enough. I can't believe anyone would have a problem with others holding hands, lol; the only thing that is inappropriate is the couples sucking tongues in your face etc. But whatever do what you want as long as it ain't harming anyone.
I definitely agree that positive discrimination is utter bullshit.
I definitely agree that positive discrimination is utter bullshit.
CLS
I feel the flag draws attention to an issue that shouldn't be an issue, this might seem daft but I think the multi coloured nature of the flag catches the eye every time it is seen on television in the stand. I will happily stand up to defend anyone in the ground if they are subject to verbal or physical abuse.
If you want to hold hands or kiss your partner that is fine by me, we only live a certain amount, at the time spent with a loved one is the most precious of all, and you should try and get the most enjoyment out of that as possible. I remember waking in my bed realising I had 14 days left with someone I cared about, I made sure that those next 14 days were spent solely on making that finite time the best finite time, stupid things from duets to sitting on top of hills talking about palaeontology, I just made sure it was, in my eyes, the best it could be. Just now I was lying in bed, I'd do anything for a 15th, but I can't, so you should be able to do what you want without fear.
I agree with
Anthony Beale
, homophobia will die away in the near future, unfortunately many people are too stubborn for it to die today.
If you want to hold hands or kiss your partner that is fine by me, we only live a certain amount, at the time spent with a loved one is the most precious of all, and you should try and get the most enjoyment out of that as possible. I remember waking in my bed realising I had 14 days left with someone I cared about, I made sure that those next 14 days were spent solely on making that finite time the best finite time, stupid things from duets to sitting on top of hills talking about palaeontology, I just made sure it was, in my eyes, the best it could be. Just now I was lying in bed, I'd do anything for a 15th, but I can't, so you should be able to do what you want without fear.
I agree with
Anthony Beale
, homophobia will die away in the near future, unfortunately many people are too stubborn for it to die today.
Carlito Brigante
absolutely did NOT say it was ok to be gay if you hide it and pretend you're straight!!!!!
I get where
CLS
is coming from. I don't know what the solution is but there's definitely homophobia- a straight couple being mocked for PDA (by mates I assume, can't imagine strangers mocking) is not comparable to a gay couple being verbally abused by strangers. Of course most fans are fine, but like he said it only takes one sentence from one person to ruin your entire day.
Yeh he shouldn't let it get to him but it's easier said than done and it shouldn't happen at all in the first place.
Yeh he shouldn't let it get to him but it's easier said than done and it shouldn't happen at all in the first place.
If you walk past a couple you don't know kissing in public and don't say anything, i judge you more than i judge anyone else.
a little "put him down" never fails, sometimes i like to go with a simple "eeuurrgghh thats gross". Maybe even a "Why is that bitch kissing my boyfriend", if you're feeling exotic.
These people need to be called out on it.
I don't see the issue here
They get no preferential treatment because they are gay, but because they are a supporters group. Maybe someone should start one for their local area if it are pissed off about it!
As for the flag, I think people moaning about are pretty sad. I saw a gaza flag in shelf against liverpool and that is alot more controversial then fucking a LGBT flag.
I might be a WUM in my next game at the lane and bring a fucking "kick it out" flag. If "positive discrimination" is so offensive lol.
They get no preferential treatment because they are gay, but because they are a supporters group. Maybe someone should start one for their local area if it are pissed off about it!
As for the flag, I think people moaning about are pretty sad. I saw a gaza flag in shelf against liverpool and that is alot more controversial then fucking a LGBT flag.
I might be a WUM in my next game at the lane and bring a fucking "kick it out" flag. If "positive discrimination" is so offensive lol.
I have sung homophobic songs at Spurs. Specifically at sol Campbell. At the time I thought it hilarious. Now Iam embarrassed that I did it. Homophobia goes against everything I stand for yet in the hurlybury of a tribal experience I joined in.
Now Iam not sure of the rights and wrongs of the group but the flag in my view should be welcomed.
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There is when "political" flags were clearly banned from the ground some years ago....If I hung up a Star or a Black Power flag, what do you reckon would happen?