Dele

[Millbanks]

Why do you disagree with me? Post match the pundits said Poch made a mistake not taking off Alli because of the potential ban.

What about Alli's temperament has told you that he could easily see out the rest of the game without getting a yellow? He's a firebrand. The needle on the pitch was already starting to spill over. Minutes after my tweet he got a yellow.

Facing Chelsea without Alli? Not good. Now we will only win by two goals instead of three. Alli's momentum was fantastic and he will be missed.

What I really think we will miss is his pace. If you take away pace from this team, things can get pretty leaden in the midfield. It's not just his pace, it's the amount of running he does.

That card did us no favors. Chelsea will be dangerous until we run them into the ground. Alli is a massive part of our endless running that wear teams down. Even games we did not win like Utd and the Gooners in the cup they were at deaths door at the end due to Bentaleb etc running them ragged. It's genetic stallions like Alli that we need to run circles around a creaking Chelsea in the final third. Not taking him off was shortsighted. I'm Dembele's biggest fan, but he struggles to last 90. Mason will struggle due to fitness. Bentaleb the same. Eriksen can last but he can be a non event off the ball. Lamela can be a liability off the ball.

I think you are underplaying the importance of what happened.

I disagree with you, simply on the premise that Alli is responsible for his behaviour on the pitch, not Poch. Sure, you can make a prediction he might get booked (as you did), but it's hardly a dead cert to happen. You know there is a betting market for yellow cards these days? You could make a fortune if you get them right every time.

Alli was on 4 yellow cards. One more and he's banned. Now how many games do you want Poch to ask Alli to tiptoe round the pitch avoiding another yellow before he's 'allowed' to miss the next game? What game is it acceptable to almost admit 'I don't need you for the next game, feel free to get booked today'? It's the Premier League. We ideally need our first team players for every game. But it's not going to happen.

Lamela has been quality this season. He was banned for West Ham, we slotted Son in and we didn't miss him. We can do the same with Alli. He can be replaced. We have the depth to cover his absence and not miss him, in my opinion. All the while he is a valuable first team player and I'd expect him back the following week.

If there is a weak link off the ball it's them, usually resulting in Rose and Walker having to do too much compared to what Jan and Toby have to deal with (which is understandable).

Rose and Walker have to work harder, because they are wingbacks covering the whole field, often having to quickly backtrack when there's a change in possession. Centre backs are pretty stable in their position, and don't need to run half as much. Completely different roles in the team. And they're given that licence because Dier plays the DM role so bloody well, he can cover either side as needed if they counter our wing when Walker/Rose are out of position.

And it isn't Lamela and Eriksen that cause more work for them. They both do an excellent job tracking. I'd say Chadli and Son are weaker 'defenders' of the 4.

Poch has clearly spent hours on the training field with the boys working on our defensive shape, and it's working wonders.

 

[gibbs131]

Rose and Walker have to work harder, because they are wingbacks covering the whole field, often having to quickly backtrack when there's a change in possession.

I don't think that's physically possible.

 

[gibbs131]

I disagree with you, simply on the premise that Alli is responsible for his behaviour on the pitch, not Poch. Sure, you can make a prediction he might get booked (as you did), but it's hardly a dead cert to happen.

Alli was only playing further forward because someone else got too many yellows. Lamela.

You could argue this backs up my opinion being banned this early that Lamela is not the best in the challenge. You would expect this from a DM or wing back.

I also think people are putting too much stock into miles run when it comes to tracking. Just because Eriksen and Lamela run their guts out off the ball, does not automatically mean their runs are effective off the ball.

IMO their tracking is a myth. They are not the best at it COMPARED to the alternatives like Alli and Dembele. How did some people give Rose the same marks as Dembele vs West Ham? I swear my influence on this forum has skewed some vision, haha.

 

[Millbanks]

I don't think that's physically possible.

It is. That's what wingbacks do in our system - up and down, up and down, up and down. Walker even found himself at LW a couple of times on Sunday, such was his energy.

Alli was only playing further forward because someone else got too many yellows. Lamela.

Right, Gibbs. This is where my problem lies with you.

You said it's Poch's fault Alli got booked.

I said Alli is responsible for Alli getting booked.

Then to counter that, you argue Alli was playing further forward because Lamela was suspended?

What that got to do with Alli's temperament, or likelihood of getting booked?

You could argue this backs up my opinion being banned this early that Lamela is not the best in the challenge. You would expect this from a DM or wing back.

I would expect it from any player in a system where we press high for 90 minutes. Lets have a look at the stats -

PLAYER - TACKLES
Dier - 50
Lamela - 42
Dembele - 41
Alli - 38
Walker - 36
Rose - 35
Verts - 29
Kane - 22
Eriksen - 20
Davies - 18
Toby - 16
Mason - 8

Proof that he puts himself about and is more than happy to put his foot in. Also shows that often we win the ball back before it reaches the defence, who generally have lower tackles than the midfielders. Inevitably, making that many challenges, he's going to pick up some yellows. It's not a big deal. It doesn't mean he can't tackle, nor that he should be given a free role. He's fitting into the system, he's more than capable of tracking back AND being useful going forward.

I also think people are putting too much stock into miles run when it comes to tracking. Just because Eriksen and Lamela run their guts out off the ball, does not automatically mean their runs are effective off the ball.

IMO their tracking is a myth. They are not the best at it COMPARED to the alternatives like Alli and Dembele. How did some people give Rose the same marks as Dembele vs West Ham? I swear my influence on this forum has skewed some vision, haha.

I think I've shown their tracking isn't mythical above. I'm concerned if you genuinely feel those two don't press the opposition. It's clear as day, with or without stats.

 

[gibbs131]

I think I've shown their tracking isn't mythical above. I'm concerned if you genuinely feel those two don't press the opposition. It's clear as day, with or without stats.

Why do you always insist on putting words in my mouth?

My CLAIM is that ALLI AND DEMBELE can do it BETTER than ERIKSEN and LAMELA and we can still remain a goal threat.

Lamela didnt start (like I wanted) Alli played further forward and we were unplayable, dominant and entertaining just like I claimed. We could have scored 7 against one of the better away teams in the league.

None of you can admit I am on the right track and we keep going off in strange tangents and picking tiny threads in my argument.

The fact is I love Lamela and Eriksen, I've always backed them and want what's best for them long term. They have more in common with VDV than they do Alli, so play them in the VDV role, covering for each other when the fixtures pile up.

What I claim is about as controversial as saying the sky is blue. Esp if you watch what is going on pitch side.

Please stop putting words in my mouth. It's below you. If I say they are non events off the ball, it's in COMPARISON to Dembele. And seeing people bounce off Dembele, and compare that with Eriksen it's a correct comparison. You can stat hump until the cows come home. Dembele and Alli vs Eriksen and Alli down the channels would be a mismatch.

 

[Millbanks]

My CLAIM is that ALLI AND DEMBELE can do it BETTER than ERIKSEN and LAMELA and we can still remain a goal threat.

Dembele is an exceptional tackler (particularly amazing given he used to be a striker!). The other 3 I think are equally good at shutting down, though Eriksen lacks the pace of the other 3 to be quite as effective.

To be fair you did say -

IMO their tracking is a myth.

Which read to me as though you don't think they track, where as maybe you meant people say their tracking is as good as anyone but you think others are better?

 

[SoCalSpurs]

I swear my influence on this forum has skewed some vision, haha.

:vertna:

 

[SoCalSpurs]

Lets have a look at the stats -

PLAYER - TACKLES
Dier - 50
Lamela - 42
Dembele - 41
Alli - 38
Walker - 36
Rose - 35
Verts - 29
Kane - 22
Eriksen - 20
Davies - 18
Toby - 16
Mason - 8

This is incredible. The thing that pops out of this to me is the amount of tackles Toby and Verts has compared to our midfield. Shows me that the opposition doesn't even get a chance to challenge our last line of defense because the ball is being won back before then.

 

[gibbs131]

Dembele is an exceptional tackler (particularly amazing given he used to be a striker!). The other 3 I think are equally good at shutting down, though Eriksen lacks the pace of the other 3 to be quite as effective.

Why would you just mention pace regarding Eriksen? You are leaving out massive gaps. Heading, 50/50's, physicality and Eriksen has been know to jump out of contact as well as failing to spot dangerous running (IMO he is similar to Naughton who would not put himself in areas of responsibility to avoid blame). Eriksen does not have a good footballing brain going backwards.

Some people overstate my argument, and equally understate their argument. Tracking can also happen defending corners and free kicks. I'd much rather Alli and Dembele in those aspects too. And I would MUCH rather Eriksen or Lamela ready and available further forward to dictate from a corner breakdown. Kane comes back to defend corners, we should have a skilled passer/heads up player further forward in these instances. Walker and Rose are up the field like whippets if the break is on.

 

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I'm rather new here Gibbs so hi!

I checked your blog, on the advice of some other posters here. One question: is it supposed to be about Tottenham? Because to me it reads like "The Adventures of Gibbsy, Elite Forum Warrior". (It's very entertaining though!)

Just curious.

 

[Joe Clash]

Eriksen and Lamela run their guts out off the ball, does not automatically mean their runs are effective off the ball.

Eriksen's running off the ball is very effective if you watch. He's nearly always one of the two or three players in the press, and his positioning means he's always available for an easy out. It's not all about who gets the first tackle in.

 

[Danoir]

Eriksen's running off the ball is very effective if you watch. He's nearly always one of the two or three players in the press, and his positioning means he's always available for an easy out. It's not all about who gets the first tackle in.

He even ran in and intercepted the ball, assisting Kane for his 2nd goal.

But whatever, would be better if he had waited and made a cracking two-foot tackle instead, beast-style.

 

[superstaryid]

Has Gibbs really been in business for over ten years? by businesss i mean antagonizing football forums , he claims to have been on his blog.

 

[gibbs131]

This is incredible. The thing that pops out of this to me is the amount of tackles Toby and Verts has compared to our midfield. Shows me that the opposition doesn't even get a chance to challenge our last line of defense because the ball is being won back before then.

We've gone over that in the past. If you look at Rose at his worst, where he won most posters worst player of the season, he made more tackles than most of the team. Tackle count has little to do with being a good defending. Ledders made hardly any tackles compared to the rest of the team on average.

What tackle count usually tells you is that you are being targeted. Managers saw Rose as a weak link so they attack him constantly. They do the same to Eriksen etc.

The best defenders often track and tackle space and make everything look effortless. Rose and co usually make a lot of tackles because all hell breaks loose down their wing.

 

[SoCalSpurs]

We've gone over that in the past. If you look at Rose at his worst, where he won most posters worst player of the season, he made more tackles than most of the team. Tackle count has little to do with being a good defending. Ledders made hardly any tackles compared to the rest of the team on average.

What tackle count usually tells you is that you are being targeted. Managers saw Rose as a weak link so they attack him constantly. They do the same to Eriksen etc.

The best defenders often track and tackle space and make everything look effortless. Rose and co usually make a lot of tackles because all hell breaks loose down their wing.

That's not what that graph is showing though. It's showing that our top 4 tacklers are in the midfield. They are tracking back and winning the ball back in the midfield (because of our pressing game) so much so that our last line of defense CBs aren't breaking a sweat.

 

[Joe Clash]

We've gone over that in the past. If you look at Rose at his worst, where he won most posters worst player of the season, he made more tackles than most of the team. Tackle count has little to do with being a good defending. Ledders made hardly any tackles compared to the rest of the team on average.

What tackle count usually tells you is that you are being targeted. Managers saw Rose as a weak link so they attack him constantly. They do the same to Eriksen etc.

The best defenders often track and tackle space and make everything look effortless. Rose and co usually make a lot of tackles because all hell breaks loose down their wing.

Absolute hogwash. Our midfield is ferocious now. Hence the high tackle count.

 

[gibbs131]

That's not what that graph is showing though. It's showing that our top 4 tacklers are in the midfield. They are tracking back and winning the ball back in the midfield (because of our pressing game) so much so that our last line of defense CBs aren't breaking a sweat.

Yep. Our midfield is doing an amazing job. Love it.

It also shows I have a point thinking Alli and Dembele should be on the left and the right of the 3. If we can stem the issues Rose and Walker are having to deal with, we will twist the screw even more.

Eriksen making so many tackles??? That is cruelty to animals, haha. He should be doing way more attacking IMO. It's detracting from his natural talents.

 

[Joe Clash]

Yep. Our midfield is doing an amazing job. Love it.

It also shows I have a point thinking Alli and Dembele should be on the left and the right of the 3. If we can stem the issues Rose and Walker are having to deal with, we will twist the screw even more.

Eriksen making so many tackles??? That is cruelty to animals, haha. He should be doing way more attacking IMO. It's detracting from his natural talents.

He has a low tackle count. According to you that means he's not being 'targeted'. His pressing and positioning are excellent.

 

[SoCalSpurs]

It also shows I have a point thinking Alli and Dembele should be on the left and the right of the 3. If we can stem the issues Rose and Walker are having to deal with, we will twist the screw even more.

Eriksen making so many tackles??? That is cruelty to animals, haha. He should be doing way more attacking IMO. It's detracting from his natural talents.

I won't get brought in to a different discussion ochbye:

 

[TheJockmur]

I've just had a thought. What if we played wimmer on the left wing. Fazio on the right. Maybe we buy ashley Williams to play in behind kane. We'll replace dembele with Sebastian bassong if Norwich will do a swap deal. And then we could drop kane for collocini. That way, rose and Walker will have all the protection?