Ange Postecoglou

[Richard Arlison]

Very well reasoned as usual. That point about Stamina and belief is worth attention, I now lack both in regards Tottenham. Which actually to be fair I don’t like feeling that way.

It's a pretty shit way to feel about something that we give so much energy to,

I don't even pay to go to games so I can only imagine that feeling if I was forking out.

I mean, i wouldn't fork out. I'm not giving the club a penny until they actually start bringing back the level of talent that they have repeatedly sold to pay for the stadium.

It's fucking criminal that teams with the likes of Bale and Modric or the Poch squad were just left short because the money was coming in from CL football and full stadiums, then eventually choked out and sold.

I think this team and this manager is the start of another one of those cycles and could get just as close as again but close isn't good enough this time.

Problem is, none of the past is on these players or this manager and they deserve just as much faith and patience as Harry and Poch got with their teams.

 

[cretinousgoat]

It's a pretty shit way to feel about something that we give so much energy to,

I don't even pay to go to games so I can only imagine that feeling if I was forking out.

I mean, i wouldn't fork out. I'm not giving the club a penny until they actually start bringing back the level of talent that they have repeatedly sold to pay for the stadium.

It's fucking criminal that teams with the likes of Bale and Modric or the Poch squad were just left short because the money was coming in from CL football and full stadiums, then eventually choked out and sold.

I think this team and this manager is the start of another one of those cycles and could get just as close as again but close isn't good enough this time.

Problem is, none of the past is on these players or this manager and they deserve just as much faith and patience as Harry and Poch got with their teams.

See, this is a fair post. I like.

 

[Ed Vanderlay]

See, this is a fair post. I like.

I thought you were Welsh , you have gone all Borat

 

[Airfixx]

Ange reminded this isn't Celtic as Tottenham insider insists a Plan B is a necessity

The former Celtic boss enjoyed a rocking start but injuries have derailed a red-hot run.

uk.yahoo.com

Jamie O'Hara asking Ange Postecoglou for a Plan B.

Just think about that for a second.

Whatever O'Hara is calling for; I want something else......

 

[Richard Arlison]

Whatever O'Hara is calling for; I want something else......

My sentiment exactly sir.

I’m sharing it for the pLaN B guys to maybe reevaluate a bit

 

[Herclueless]

What were the mitigating factors in the batterings by Brighton, Fulham and Newcastle?
Heck, what was the mitigating factor against Wolves at home?
Very few injuries by these games.
What about West Ham away, what was the mitigating factor for drawing against that shite taking a total of 1 point from 6 from them?

Too many excuses for this team this season.

1 point from 12 against West Ham and Wolves this season is absolutely shocking.

You can argue all you like about this season being better than expected, but it's undeniable that it also could have been better.

That's 11 "easy" points right there, take them and we're 3 points off Liverpool with 2 games in hand, or just 6 points off top.

 

[Herclueless]

My sentiment exactly sir.

I’m sharing it for the pLaN B guys to maybe reevaluate a bit

I don't care about a plan B, as long as plan A actually works well most of the time...

 

[HyNdZee]

My sentiment exactly sir.

I’m sharing it for the pLaN B guys to maybe reevaluate a bit

To be fair I think even Pep had to re-evaluate his plans a bit and have a bit more of a plan b than he originally anticipated in the Premier League. You know, that sticky spell before he just ruthlessly bought all of the best players for plan a and still somehow managed to fuck it up in big games. O'Hara may be a bit too Brexit but he won a League Cup and Ange hasn't yet...

Also, Jamie is thinking of the days when 'ol 'Arry played 4-5-1 with Sandro and Palacios away from home and won at AC Milan, yet switched it up at home against relegation fodder with a nice attacking 4-4-2. And who can blame him for that?

 

[Doom Funk]

I just disagreed with a single post from ol' cretinous and he instantly goes and dislikes a number of my posts

 

[Maureen]

Exactly this.

And even in those 10 games there were the games against Liverpool where it was clearly a lucky win and the game against Sheff U which was made more embarrassing by the fact they got beat 8 the week after in their own gaff.

There have been very few games we've been in control of from start to finish and looked like the better team which is not good at all at this stage of the season and it's very difficult to explain given we've had no Europe and were out of both cups early.

What makes it more bizarre is that any criticism is seen as blasphemy against the Chosen One, the conqueror of Japan, Australia & Scotland.

People are resorting to classing any criticism as wanting him sacked but just as people point out changing manager every season is not the path to success, for those with sense to see it's clear that lauding and canonising mediocrity is no path to success either.

Passing the ball for the sake of passing it is not entertaining football.

Leaving 2 defenders back to defend a whole half by themselves no matter what is not brave, it's naive.

Refusing to hire a set piece coach because you've never done it before in the elite hotspots of Scotland, Japan & Australia is not loyalty to your staff, it's leaving points on the table.

Being given a say in transfers and wanting the likes of Johnson, Werner and now Gallagher is a reason for concern if you're someone who wants the team to progress and do well, not a cause for celebration.

Spot on!
Obvs everyone wants Ange to do well and we much prefer the ethos of the football we want to play. But some think we are better than we actually are. The first 10
Games we had some iffy wins. We just about got over the line in some. Just imagine losing to SU and getting only a draw v dippers. Luton away we could easily have lost. That’s 7 points gone there already and things wouldn’t have look so bright back then. What I don’t get get is the absolute awful nothing first halves. “Angeball”
I thought was all about going for teams at pace and relentlessly for 90 mins. I can’t really recall one game where have come out of the traps firing on all cylinders and keep going.
PS see bar codes getting turned over by CP!

 

[BernardMatthews]

Definitely don’t let non attendance disconnect you from the team. It’s not really a test of loyalty, it’s probably more a test of practicality and affordability.

I’ve been blessed to be born local to the club, grown up within easy commuting distance and been able to afford to go ( Christ knows how at times ) but I am no bigger fan than my cousin, who for example moved to Sydney, has Spurs stuff everywhere and consumes as much Spurs as he can ( along with his son ) but gets to a game once every ten years

I think having gone to matches for so long not going anymore just doesn’t give me the same adrenaline rush.

Something about the walk to the stadium, pre match beer, post match moan or celebratory drink.

You see it on here. We go 2-0 down people are “right fuck this I’m going out”. You don’t get that option in the stadium. You hurt with the team and 60k others.

Just the way I am wired. Can’t explain it. But watching on tv is just not quite the same for me.

 

[Maureen]

only real reason most people are on Ange because they’re ENIC out over everything. Feels like people are scared that he could do something(and he will)and give them some breathing space.

I get it. I dislike ENIC too, really don’t like them or Levy. but separate the two. The players are clearly impressed with him. He’s talking up challenging next year. You can quite clearly tell he’s got the hunger to win things, not just pick up his pay check and pay lip service to managing us. It’s been up and down but it was always going to be.

On what basis does he think we can challenge this year?
Is it some sort of self delusion?
We need to be far more physical in our play to win and control games. We are powder puff especially the front 3 who constantly bottle 70/30 challenges in their favour. We won’t get far if we continue with that type of player as the ball will get turned over quickly and we will have only poor old VDV at the back to save us.

 

[BernardMatthews]

Spot on!
Obvs everyone wants Ange to do well and we much prefer the ethos of the football we want to play. But some think we are better than we actually are. The first 10
Games we had some iffy wins. We just about got over the line in some. Just imagine losing to SU and getting only a draw v dippers. Luton away we could easily have lost. That’s 7 points gone there already and things wouldn’t have look so bright back then. What I don’t get get is the absolute awful nothing first halves. “Angeball”
I thought was all about going for teams at pace and relentlessly for 90 mins. I can’t really recall one game where have come out of the traps firing on all cylinders and keep going.
PS see bar codes getting turned over by CP!

I think I got one like and one agree and a hell of a lot more disagrees and grief when I questioned our first 10 games at the time.

I pointed out our last 10 games were a lot harder than the first but general consensus was by April the team would be full AngeBall. Especially from his long term fans from other clubs.
One guy compared him to Fergie once we were top of the league just try and move us!!

Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn’t it.

 

[Maureen]

So, this is a valid concern and also gets to the crux of our issues as a club.

We do need the right players in the right positions and tbh I think Ange's system needs even more than those 3 positions to be perfect.

BUT... if you want to build any system that aims to be proactive and dominant, you will always need the right players for the system. The issue this club has had for decades now is that the first filter that defines the transfer list is the the economic filter...i.e., contract length. age, potential sell on value.

Then once the club had decided that the player was a fit for the business model, we would look at whether the manager or the club liked the player. There has been numerous occasions in the past where it looked a lot like the club liking the player > the manager liking a player.

What Ange is battling to change is getting the club and himself aligned on the players they like and then making that > the economic filter. If that fundamental issue isn't fixed, it doesn't matter who the manager is, we won't win and we will be having the same debates about inflexible tactics and no plan b etc etc et-fucking-cetera....forever

People seem to think there are managers out there with 20 different elite level systems they can use depending on the players they have and always find a solution good enough to win trophies. It's mental. Every manager has a system that they master and perfect. They can tweak it depending on environment but the underlying system will be a single idea. Even the ones that have a system based around adapting to opponents more than asserting a dominant style still need specifically high IQ players.

This post is already longer than I meant it to be but the TLDR is that OF COURSE Ange needs the right players for his system. Every manager does. And yes it's going to be ugly occasionally - sometimes more than occasionally - until he has those players and the depth around them when they are unavailable.

The plus side is, those names you mentioned for Liverpool weren't mind-bendingly expensive or relatively outside a reasonable economic range for this club to sign. Given time, there is no reason Ange can't build a squad to fit this style.

But he wanted BJ, agreed the loan for Timo and has a hard on for CG. They are not the most inspiring of player selection!

 

[Maureen]

Wharton has absolutely pissed the step up too. Under Glasner he looks even better. I wanted us to sign him in January and he now definitely looks like a player we’ve missed out on from the championship.

We got timo on loan!

 

[Maureen]

Of course, but it’s important to note how big those flaws are.

I wouldn’t necessarily think of a formation change, if he doesn’t want to sacrifice a midfielder for a defender or whatever. For example, we’ve seen Newcastle exploit our defence constantly, behind our defensive line and behind our fullbacks. He could’ve tried to drop the defensive line a little bit, or told one of the fullbacks to stop overcommitting and then shift the CBs to the side where either fullback has joined the attack. It’s not like his system would stop working (at least I don’t think so) if either of these things are not done to the extreme. To me it just looks as if he knows one thing and doesn’t know what to do when it doesn’t work.

But what is the system that is so scared and he is adamant he won’t change. We never looked like getting back into that game v bar codes. So no idea what he we would to change things up.

 

[El flaco]

1 point from 12 against West Ham and Wolves this season is absolutely shocking.

You can argue all you like about this season being better than expected, but it's undeniable that it also could have been better.

That's 11 "easy" points right there, take them and we're 3 points off Liverpool with 2 games in hand, or just 6 points off top.

What a load of shite - claiming these are easy points just makes you sound like a tube.
Then going on about what ifs and imaginary scenarios where we are 3pts of the top. Get a grip.

 

[nicoclaesen]

I agree Ange must be backed but I'm not sure about his choice of players. Johnson being an example. Wanting Gallagher is just plain stupid. Did he also choose Werner? I'm not sure...

Does he want Gallagher though? No bid in January window and again it’s just rumours. Werner was offered to him and he said yes but if Solomon was fit and Sonny wasn’t away on international duty then I don’t think he’d have taken him.

 

[nicoclaesen]

I’ve already stated I’m Ange out.

But, I like the guy a lot. And I want to be wrong and to see him prove me wrong would be brilliant. At the moment though I am far from convinced he is the answer.

That written, I do recognise that his failure would be linked to many others around the gaff, and seeing him out the door while so many of the others would left behind, entirely unaccountable, would be an grave injustice.

Ange is a good guy, and brave. But so is/was Ossie and he could not hide from the bashings in the end either, same as Ange won’t be able to, 3-0 or 4-0 back to back are ominous. You don’t lose twice to Wolves in one season and be credible.

Jose and Conte were accused of having only one way to set up and not being adaptable and not being entertaining enough.

Ange is absolutely one dimensional, is not adaptable but is considered to be entertaining.

So by the single metric of entertainment most fans forgive the results and would favour Ange, but it’s (mostly) been horrible since December. Patchy at best, is that really entertaining? I sit above the away fans it’s pretty gloomy when Luton spend 60 minutes celebrating below us. Thats not due to the result, it’s because Ange’s team had no control for a massive amount of time at home to relegation fodder. Our celebrations were relief, that’s quite different to celebrations with the pride of a commanding performance.

My last bit of honestly is that I’ve been going through this loop with Spurs for so long now that my cynicism is off the charts, and Ange is currently useful to Levy and the company PR scheme but a significant upturn is necessary pretty soon before those stories of dressing room unrest are leaked out via Alastair Gold (again).

I am genuinely sorry I can’t be more optimistic, especially ahead of Woolwich. And yes 5th is “good”, but that’s not reflective of echos of Glory to me, it’s average and probably disappointing. Again I don’t want Ange to fail, genuinely I don’t .

So wolves are not allowed to beat us twice? Your comment about the Luton game is utter rubbish. We dominated that game and had control even though they scored.

 

[Richard Arlison]

To be fair I think even Pep had to re-evaluate his plans a bit and have a bit more of a plan b than he originally anticipated in the Premier League. You know, that sticky spell before he just ruthlessly bought all of the best players for plan a and still somehow managed to fuck it up in big games. O'Hara may be a bit too Brexit but he won a League Cup and Ange hasn't yet...

Also, Jamie is thinking of the days when 'ol 'Arry played 4-5-1 with Sandro and Palacios away from home and won at AC Milan, yet switched it up at home against relegation fodder with a nice attacking 4-4-2. And who can blame him for that?

Pep didn’t change his philosophy

I’m not even sure what people mean by plan b