Tbf to poch the 2nd season he really turned it around. Also poch had far more crap players in first season, got 5th and to a final. Don’t think he had much to spend either in that first season. How much have we already spent under Ange? Look at the cup comps.
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Think its a myth that Poch took on some amazing side but as much as i like Vicario, VDV, Porro, Udogie and Maddison none get in ahead of Lloris, Rose Walker, Vertongen and Eriksen. We also had Dembele and our greatest ever player breaking through.
Poch had worse players like Fazio, Mason,Bentaleb starting regulaly but he had more quality to work with, just needed some finishing touches. Current side needs at least 4 first teamers imo
That’s our issue,you can blame that we are open but we don’t keep the ball well enough when it goes up to whatever 3 plays,they don’t go in behind enough and their decision making is poor once they do get in there. Upgrade in those positions and we become a different animal.
To play the way we do we need the dippers front 3 of mane, Bobby F and salah. All work hard, keep the ball and have great technical ability.
Someone, you have said it. This has bothered me for months. Either I am truly missing something or it doesn't add up.
,
Let's stick to Werner and Johnson as Son was already here as you say. I don't think the profile of these players are what the system requires for Angeball.
In a front three provided for by underlapping fullbacks and cut backs, a straight line runner like BJ can indeed arrive back post for tap ins and very rarely cut back for a forward .....but he isnt good at pressing, a player of far greater technical acumen like Firminho would offer you the press but the first time and one touch triangles to create way more with the underlapping fullbacks.
I'm worried about the profile of footballer we are recruiting. Is there a disconnect between the scouting and Anges vision, because we really need to nail the recruitment this summer like never before.
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Yes spot on. No manager ever gets what they need. Ange is not even coming with a top pedigree but like poch. However poch used his coaching skills to get us to the level to challenge for the title. Ange has to show some coaching skills. He has to be part of the whole game plan as well and needs to add his input. Otherwise it’s just picking 11 players and tell them to all run in the oppo half and have poor old Mickey pick up the pieces.
Rose is the only one Udogie is a better footballer than Rose was but Danny was Doncaster stubborn, and his defending improved frankly incredibly under Poch. I think Udogie playing orthodox left back with real defensive responsibility could pretty quickly surpass him. Also I worry he isnt actually learning the fundamentals of fullback play because the inverted system is so diffrent. See Pep saying Kyle Walker can't do what Ange is asking Udogie and Porror to do.
Guess people just change the goal posts to suit their thinking.
Not so much the big guns surely.
A very valid concern imo.
We've spent £50M on Johnson who has very clear technical limitations which preclude him offering much in a possession based system other than runs in behind. Werner likewise.
Spending last summer and January chasing someone like Gallagher and being linked to him again is another worry because he's an energy player that's not going to increase the technical quality of the midfield when we need players who offer both to complement/replace what we do have.
Hopefully Paratici is still running the show behind the scenes but missing a player like Wharton in January stings a bit although that reminds me we did get Bergvall so who knows if he can play any role next season.
I always felt the arrival of Lange must mean that Paratici was being sidelined. I'd be sad if that's the case.
I continue to be astonished at the appetite for engaging in argumentative discourse here. Not a single opinion will be altered by such discourse. This thread is a prime example. It is just page after page of turgid shite. Of course, the real idiot is me for melting my head reading all this garbage.
The Don will always be there in the shadows operating.
Don't start with this sh!t.
Woolwich ain't spent uber amounts in every posituon.
Postecoglou needs to be a bit better with what he has at his disposal..
In terms of wages and transfer spend he’s almost exactly on par with what he has at his disposal
Maybe....But you say that about every single manager we employ .
Seriously, mate, when will the penny finally drop?
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How many titles have Brenda, Lennon, O’Neil won at Celtic? Didn’t see anyone at the time go out and say we need to hire the Celtic manager bcos they are serial winners.
Poch’s big signing first season was Ben Davies!
Approx £11m.
Different times for us. You can’t really compare 2014 to 2024. We were in full bargain basement stadium mode then.
Other teams main signings that summer window.
Man City signed Wilfred Bony. Woolwich Alecis Sanchez. Liverpool Adam Lalanna.
United De Maria for £75m!!!
A quarter of a century and c.20 different managers suggests otherwiseWell, here's hoping you're right, mate.
We know what's happened in the past when a manager has put pressure on the owners...., but, like I say, here's to hoping this time will be different.
So, this is a valid concern and also gets to the crux of our issues as a club.
We do need the right players in the right positions and tbh I think Ange's system needs even more than those 3 positions to be perfect.
BUT... if you want to build any system that aims to be proactive and dominant, you will always need the right players for the system. The issue this club has had for decades now is that the first filter that defines the transfer list is the the economic filter...i.e., contract length. age, potential sell on value.
Then once the club had decided that the player was a fit for the business model, we would look at whether the manager or the club liked the player. There has been numerous occasions in the past where it looked a lot like the club liking the player > the manager liking a player.
What Ange is battling to change is getting the club and himself aligned on the players they like and then making that > the economic filter. If that fundamental issue isn't fixed, it doesn't matter who the manager is, we won't win and we will be having the same debates about inflexible tactics and no plan b etc etc et-fucking-cetera....forever
People seem to think there are managers out there with 20 different elite level systems they can use depending on the players they have and always find a solution good enough to win trophies. It's mental. Every manager has a system that they master and perfect. They can tweak it depending on environment but the underlying system will be a single idea. Even the ones that have a system based around adapting to opponents more than asserting a dominant style still need specifically high IQ players.
This post is already longer than I meant it to be but the TLDR is that OF COURSE Ange needs the right players for his system. Every manager does. And yes it's going to be ugly occasionally - sometimes more than occasionally - until he has those players and the depth around them when they are unavailable.
The plus side is, those names you mentioned for Liverpool weren't mind-bendingly expensive or relatively outside a reasonable economic range for this club to sign. Given time, there is no reason Ange can't build a squad to fit this style.
Wharton has absolutely pissed the step up too. Under Glasner he looks even better. I wanted us to sign him in January and he now definitely looks like a player we’ve missed out on from the championship.