They probably just think he won't adjust and would prefer a manager they think will.
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They probably just think he won't adjust and would prefer a manager they think will.
When we were playing well at the start of this season everyone seemed happy with our players, I even remember posters saying things like ''Harry who?''.
Now that our form has dropped off, it's ''rebuild'' as if we haven't been buying lots of new players to do exaclty that. The thing is if our current team were playing well, we'd be happy to not have a rebuild,
If you change the starting 11 for new players then that's a rebuild even if you're playing shit.
Agreed. We are a long way off City, but we have progressed. The big test for Ange is next season. I'd be looking for top 3 / strong 4th, plus a deep run in FA/Europa/CL or a Carabao final.
One thing is that while we were shite last season, Conte's implosion was IMO in large part responsible for that. Kane is a massive miss for us this season. Under Conte in 21-22 we were superb for the last 10 games of the season, and we started 22-23 pretty well, even if the football wasn't pretty. So in a sense we weren't as fundamentally bad as the second half of last season might have you believe - the toxic culture around Conte in that era dragged us lower than the squad was capable of.
And if we're shit next season do we say ''ah but we're in a rebuild'',
No. If we don't progress next season vs this season, we should sack the manager. Two years is a decent amount of time to progress. Not expecting the title or CL ffs, but we should see material progress in two years.
We assess where we are at the end of next season against where we are now, what kind of squad we then have, league finish, performances etc.
Won’t be hard to see if we’re moving in the right direction. If we’re still progressing then great.
If not, then we need to look at whether it’s the manager, players or lack of support from ‘above’.
The problem that lots of people seem to ignore is that other teams can improve too, so we might improve next season but be no further up the league etc.
I also take the SAF and Klopp comparisons with a pinch of salt. Both of those managers had better credentials than Ange did arriving in Div 1/ PL. We can't just assume that if year two goes tits-up, it's ok, because SAF struggled in year two also. Ange deserves two years to deliver a team that has progressed, and is clearly heading in the right direction at the end of those two years.
Generally the standard goes up over time due to better training, and increased wealth of PL vs other leagues. But we benefit as much on the former, and more on the latter, than the PL average.
Can you agree that if we sell our starting 11 and buy 11 new players we've had a rebuild even if we haven't improved?
I'd argue by then, it is sufficiently Ange's team, that he carries a lot of the can for player under-performance. And the Levy factor is in Levy's hands, so we can look there all we want in vain.
Nope.
Literally told you a rebuild is about more than just players.
Please stop wasting my time.
I'd argue it depends what happens. I'm not mystic meg so it's impossible to say.
I'd argue by then, it is sufficiently Ange's team, that he carries a lot of the can for player under-performance. And the Levy factor is in Levy's hands, so we can look there all we want in vain.
That reads like the transcript of Tanguy's interview for a contract extension !I'd argue it depends what happens. I'm not mystic meg so it's impossible to say.
Talk about fifth being an improvement is highly disingenuous. We were fourth when Conte was sacked, and he was sacked more for being a moaner more than position. We finished where we did in large part because Stellini and Mason were crap options.
Conte's first season - which had the good luck of no summer window and a Nuno start - led to fourth place in the table. We should be comparing this season to now, not last season. This was a team with Davies, Dier and Emerson in the backline.
Ange has lost Kane and gained Maddison, Johnson, Vicario, VDV, Udogie, a full season of Porro, Dragusin etc.
And again - I am still very much Ange in and of the opinion he has done an objectively decent job and should be given time. But people are bigging up what he's done this season. I expected us to finish lower but I didn't expect us to make so many successful signings after Kane.
Conte's first season - which had the good luck of no summer window and a Nuno start - led to fourth place in the table. We should be comparing this season to now, not last season. This was a team with Davies, Dier and Emerson in the backline.
Ange has lost Kane and gained Maddison, Johnson, Vicario, VDV, Udogie, a full season of Porro, Dragusin etc.
And again - I am still very much Ange in and of the opinion he has done an objectively decent job and should be given time. But people are bigging up what he's done this season. I expected us to finish lower but I didn't expect us to make so many successful signings after Kane.
The word rebuild has been used all season.
Even when we were winning there were complaints about our lack of centre back depth. Richarlison not being good enough as our striker. No creativity outside of Maddison. Complaints about spending big money on Johnson, the lot.
We could always split our season in half and see how we've fared in terms of our "form" though.
32 games played this season.
First 16 games:
30 points
33 goals scored
1.76 PPG
Last 16 games:
30 points
32 goals scored
1.76 PPG
Oh.
It's not sizeable. It's a slight improvement. The cup performances were a disgrace and we've had numerous poor performances and still plenty of embarrassing performances such as Newcastle,Fulham,Brighton away. Some very poor home ones too. I know these owners if he's not got this team firing by half way through next season his job will be on the line and I won't be surprised if he's sacked. What he really needs to do is be flexible in his tactics because I guarantee he will not get everything he needs from these owners. So sometimes he needs to try something like dropping the inverted full backs and telling maddison to stick between the lines instead of dropping so deep. He also needs to start dropping underperforming players like bissouma. He needs to help himself in this league it's not Japan or Scotland anymore. Teams and coaches are savvy at this level.
Is it possible to have a rebuild that doesn't improve the team?
Fair points. I think this season you've seen in phases what could be a really good team. And I think people (self included) are holding on to that. In that respect it is different to Conte's Tottenham in 22-23