Ange Postecoglou

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Everybody is overthinking this.

This is a club that is settled and stable in a range between 3/4th to 8/9th. We can have a season as bad as last year and still finish in that range...

If Ange isn't as good as we hope, we will still be in that range. We could probably hire 98% of managers out there and still be in that range.

Just watch us for what we are and see where it takes us. IMO the concept is different and the execution has been the best football I can remember at times and other times as bad as any games in recent memory. It's such a no brainer to ride it out until next season and see if the good games become consistent and Ange is in the 2% of managers that can break our glass ceiling. And if he isn't... so what, we'd have been where we are anyway.
 
Starks said:
The word rebuild has been used all season.

Even when we were winning there were complaints about our lack of centre back depth. Richarlison not being good enough as our striker. No creativity outside of Maddison. Complaints about spending big money on Johnson, the lot.

We could always split our season in half and see how we've fared in terms of our "form" though.

32 games played this season.

First 16 games:
30 points
33 goals scored
1.76 PPG

Last 16 games:
30 points
32 goals scored
1.76 PPG

Oh.
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Yes we've hung about the top four/five all season so far, I'm not complaining about our overall points tally. I don't think we've been playing well since November though. I'm not unhappy with Anges first season but we're not playing as well as we were when we beat Liverpool and drew with the Gooners etc.... But I do maintain my point that if we played all season like we did in the first 10 matches up until the defeat to Chelsea, there wouldn't be talk of a rebuild other than getting a new striker to replace Richalison.

The only thing that has changed is our form and Perisic left, Werner came in.
 
Richard Arlison said:
Everybody is overthinking this.

This is a club that is settled and stable in a range between 3/4th to 8/9th. We can have a season as bad as last year and still finish in that range...

If Ange isn't as good as we hope, we will still be in that range. We could probably hire 98% of managers out there and still be in that range.

Just watch us for what we are and see where it takes us. IMO the concept is different and the execution has been the best football I can remember at times and other times as bad as any games in recent memory. It's such a no brainer to ride it out until next season and see if the good games become consistent and Ange is in the 2% of managers that can break our glass ceiling. And if he isn't... so what, we'd have been where we are anyway.
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Fair point.

I'm consoling myself with the fact City are now more likely to win the league, not the dipps or Woolwich.

And Woolwich are going out of the CL

Still think we will finish a weak 4th.
 
McCOYS said:
Yes we've hung about the top four/five all season so far, I'm not complaining about our overall points tally. I don't think we've been playing well since Novermber though. I'm not unhappy with Anges first season but we're not playing as well as we were when we beat Liverpool and drew with the Gooners etc.... But I do maintain my point that if we played all season like we did in the first 10 matches up until the defeat to Chelsea, there wouldn't been talk of a rebuild other than getting a new striker to replace Richalison.

The only thing that has changed is our form and Perisic left, Werner came in.
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The fact it was derailed by one game (apparently) shows it was fragile though. If it wasn't that game, it would have been something else/some number of factors.
 
manmountainbutters said:
Fair point.

I'm consoling myself with the fact City are now more likely to win the league, not the dipps or Woolwich.

And Woolwich are going out of the CL

Still think we will finish a weak 4th.
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Honestly, the outcome of this season doesn't matter to me now. I've already seen what I need to see after 30 odd games. And for sure the outcome will be within that very same range regardless of how well we finish.

As long as we stick to the plan and keep working towards the way we want to play, I'm ok with it.

That doesn't mean I'm Ok with this club being stuck in the range and watching the same model play out every season, it's just about trying to be as realistic about it as possible.
 
manmountainbutters said:
The fact it was derailed by one game (apparently) shows it was fragile though. If it wasn't that game, it would have been something else/some number of factors.
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Yes agreed but as supporters we were all happy with our current players then except maybe Richarlison. Then when as you say something happened and our form dropped, ''ah it's just a rebuild season''. It's a crutch that people use to excuse a drop in form.
 
Richard Arlison said:
Everybody is overthinking this.

This is a club that is settled and stable in a range between 3/4th to 8/9th. We can have a season as bad as last year and still finish in that range...

If Ange isn't as good as we hope, we will still be in that range. We could probably hire 98% of managers out there and still be in that range.

Just watch us for what we are and see where it takes us. IMO the concept is different and the execution has been the best football I can remember at times and other times as bad as any games in recent memory. It's such a no brainer to ride it out until next season and see if the good games become consistent and Ange is in the 2% of managers that can break our glass ceiling. And if he isn't... so what, we'd have been where we are anyway.
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I would go one step further. We all hope Postecoglou brings us a title, or at least consistent top 4 or 5 finishes. But if after three seasons it hasn't worked out but the roster has transitioned to become younger and more talented and the brand of football is still fun to watch then he would have accomplished something worthwhile. The roster transition is well underway and it isn't just that we have different players but also that we have young players who will still improve. The only downside is this transition is bad for Son and he probably deserves to get away from this system to a team that can use his physical gifts.
 
Airfixx said:
Would it be complicating matters at all if I introduce the concepts of a 'pre-build' and 'static progress' into the conversation?

McCOYS McCOYS - Over to you.....
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I don't agree that a rebuild is required every time a new manager is employed, it's common for them to want a few new players like when we got Kulusevski, Bentancur Perisic. Ange has got lots of new players already. What happens if we get a new CF DMF, and wingers this summer, is the rebuild complete then or do we keep stating it until we win the PL?
 
cretinousgoat said:
I'd argue it depends what happens. I'm not mystic meg so it's impossible to say.

:tanguythumb:
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That's exactly the sort of thing Mystic Meg would say....

fry shredder GIF
 
Deuterz said:
Talk about fifth being an improvement is highly disingenuous. We were fourth when Conte was sacked, and he was sacked more for being a moaner more than position. We finished where we did in large part because Stellini and Mason were crap options.

Conte's first season - which had the good luck of no summer window and a Nuno start - led to fourth place in the table. We should be comparing this season to now, not last season. This was a team with Davies, Dier and Emerson in the backline.

Ange has lost Kane and gained Maddison, Johnson, Vicario, VDV, Udogie, a full season of Porro, Dragusin etc.

And again - I am still very much Ange in and of the opinion he has done an objectively decent job and should be given time. But people are bigging up what he's done this season. I expected us to finish lower but I didn't expect us to make so many successful signings after Kane.
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With 2 games ahead of Newcastle and Utd, I don't know who's being disingenuous here.
 
Dudski said:
I would go one step further. We all hope Postecoglou brings us a title, or at least consistent top 4 or 5 finishes. But if after three seasons it hasn't worked out but the roster has transitioned to become younger and more talented and the brand of football is still fun to watch then he would have accomplished something worthwhile. The roster transition is well underway and it isn't just that we have different players but also that we have young players who will still improve. The only downside is this transition is bad for Son and he probably deserves to get away from this system to a team that can use his physical gifts.
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Foul voted x5 times for using the word roster.
 
Shadydan said:
All well and good when it's in the Summer and things are generally looking rosy because of nothing other than hope but when it comes down to it these people can't hack any sort of losses or bad moments because they lack PATIENCE
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SPURS fans lack patience ...... :harrylol:

How fucking patronising is that. When our only trophy under ENIC was a poultry league cup 16 long years ago
 
Richard Arlison said:
Everybody is overthinking this.

This is a club that is settled and stable in a range between 3/4th to 8/9th. We can have a season as bad as last year and still finish in that range...

If Ange isn't as good as we hope, we will still be in that range. We could probably hire 98% of managers out there and still be in that range.

Just watch us for what we are and see where it takes us. IMO the concept is different and the execution has been the best football I can remember at times and other times as bad as any games in recent memory. It's such a no brainer to ride it out until next season and see if the good games become consistent and Ange is in the 2% of managers that can break our glass ceiling. And if he isn't... so what, we'd have been where we are anyway.
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Agree with everything. Anyone who doesn't think he needs at least one more season to put his stamp on things, is bonkers. But the concern I have is how our team for the past few games has behaved like they've all had an enormous knock on the head and completely forgotten how to play #hashtagAngeball. Just statues on the pitch off the ball, extremely poor situational awareness of each other all over the pitch, no tactical nous whatsoever and the attacking prowess of a turnip.

But alas, if we can begin to find our feet again like we were at the start of the season, then we are as good as gold!
 
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