Jan Vertonghen

[gibbs131]

Wrong, you just don't usually don't get both, and I'm pointing it out. Your two lineups have a solid spine; Capoue, Sandro, and Dembele? Solid. But then you have Eriksen and Lamela out on the wings, so much from getting away from wing play!

I'm not going to argue that our wing-focused attack have worked, nor that it will in the future with our personnel, but if you want to get away from wing play, you need to have a dynamic, creative, and technically sound midfield that is all in sync. We don't have that for the most part at the moment, and your lineups don't either.

This would suggest wingplay:

------------------ade---------------
Eriksen------Demb-----Lamela

This is what I had, a packed midfield:
----------------Ade---------------
--Eriksen--Demb---Lamela--

You dont think Eriksen and Lamela can spark a dynamic/creative midfield? OK> Got it.

 

[Wikipedia Brown]

This would suggest wingplay:

------------------ade---------------
Eriksen------Demb-----Lamela

This is what I had, a packed midfield:
----------------Ade---------------
--Eriksen--Demb---Lamela--

You dont think Eriksen and Lamela can spark a dynamic/creative midfield? OK> Got it.

lol

not much of a defensive spine in midfield when the two DMs have to cover the wings as well

 

[gibbs131]

lol
not much of a defensive spine in midfield when the two DMs have to cover the wings as well

The same thing is happening now WITH players on the wing. The difference being, you will have 6 defensive players to spot runs and cut out potential balls to the wings. Vs Liverpool we had 2 defensive players on the whole pitch.

If a player manages to beat the left back (who shock horror will actually be there) their final ball in will have way more bodies in the way and accomplished headers of the ball. It would be a problem if goals go right in from the wing.

This formation is better at cutting out passes PERIOD. So it's harder to get a pass to the wing when there is a packed midfield closing you down.

 

[Wikipedia Brown]

The same thing is happening now WITH players on the wing. The difference being, you will have 6 defensive players to spot runs and cut out potential balls to the wings. Vs Liverpool we had 2 defensive players on the whole pitch.

If a player manages to beat the left back (who shock horror will actually be there) their final ball in will have way more bodies in the way and accomplished headers of the ball. It would be a problem if goals go right in from the wing.

This formation is better at cutting out passes PERIOD. So it's harder to get a pass to the wing when there is a packed midfield closing you down.

 

[gibbs131]

The polite answer:
Its pretty simple. I don't want Eriksen and Lamela hugging the wings and given water carrying duties. And if we get countered, I want real DM's holding back to help a back line that will be in place (not wingbacks out of position).

Eriksen and Lamela should be given no backtracking responsibilities. Because if they do it's a false positive. They may be next to the runner, but there is not a lot they can do about it. Just like Rose and Naughton. Just because they are there, does not mean its a sound formation.

 

[gibbs131]

He comes out to the press and criticises team tactics and transfer policy

That isn't the kind of person who is going to 'make it' as a top defender, regardless of ability.

Haha. Yeah...Vert is not going to make it as a top defender. Said nobody ever apart from you.

Farkin bollocks. Utter tripe.

 

[sammyspurs]

Or "We don't even have a manager while the clown who's sitting up in the box playing on his mobile can't even be bothered, so why should I'?

BTW - I don't recall you blaming any of the players around the time AVB was sacked in turn placing all the blame on him - so where's the consistencty?

They were gelling back then....they needed a whole year to do that remember...?

Now that notion has been forgotten (it was forgotten 3 months ago in fact), I hold BOTH manager and players responsible.

As its plain to see that while Sherwood is lacking, so are many of the players.

Theres my consistency. Where is yours? You said the players needed at least a season to gel. Why has TS been "found out", when in your eyes, the players cant possibly click and play well for another 6/7/8 months?

 

[Wikipedia Brown]

The polite answer:
Its pretty simple. I don't want Eriksen and Lamela hugging the wings and given water carrying duties. And if we get countered, I want real DM's holding back to help a back line that will be in place (not wingbacks out of position).

Eriksen and Lamela should be given no backtracking responsibilities. Because if they do it's a false positive. They may be next to the runner, but there is not a lot they can do about it. Just like Rose and Naughton. Just because they are there, does not mean its a sound formation.

If the wings are abandoned to Sandro/Capoue, that leaves Dembele as the only player to mark central runs (as I'm assuming you also want to do away with our centerbacks playing higher up). Your formation would be too easy to rip to shreds with two players who aren't backtracking. Giving up on the wings is only going to strain your proposed "spine"

though I don't know why I'm arguing this, fairly sure ILSpur already made this point but you chose to ignore it.

You're the one failing to see the simple here: a team that gives zero backtracking duties to two of its players is not a defensively sound team.

 

[ArcspacE]

They were gelling back then....they needed a whole year to do that remember...?

Now that notion has been forgotten (it was forgotten 3 months ago in fact), I hold BOTH manager and players responsible.

As its plain to see that while Sherwood is lacking, so are many of the players.

Theres my consistency. Where is yours? You said the players needed at least a season to gel. Why has TS been "found out", when in your eyes, the players cant possibly click and play well for another 6/7/8 months?

Season was a write-off the moment we appointed someone weaker - AVB should have only gone if we had a better option lined-up (something I've outlined numerous times). Team dynamic is virtually non-existent at the moment and that began back in January when some became aware of what was happening and went for the door, most notably Holtby and to a lesser degree Chadli. You can't 'click' in a write-off of a season while there are certain favourites who always start ahead of you irrespective of ability or skill. He is not the right man to take us forwards (also your words) and should have never been given the chance to play real-life FM with a Top 5 PL squad.

 

[sammyspurs]

Season was a write-off the moment we appointed someone weaker - AVB should have only gone if we had a better option lined-up (something I've outlined numerous times). Team dynamic is virtually non-existent at the moment and that began back in January when some became aware of what was happening and went for the door, most notably Holtby and to a lesser degree Chadli. You can't 'click' in a write-off of a season while there are certain favourites who always start ahead of you irrespective of ability or skill. He is not the right man to take us forwards (also your words) and should have never been given the chance to play real-life FM with a Top 5 PL squad.

Yes...and whats that got to do with people being hypocrites?

 

[CJJ]

Haha. Yeah...Vert is not going to make it as a top defender. Said nobody ever apart from you.

Farkin bollocks. Utter tripe.

Because he's been amazing this season....

 

[CJJ]

They were gelling back then....they needed a whole year to do that remember...?

Now that notion has been forgotten (it was forgotten 3 months ago in fact), I hold BOTH manager and players responsible.

As its plain to see that while Sherwood is lacking, so are many of the players.

Theres my consistency. Where is yours? You said the players needed at least a season to gel. Why has TS been "found out", when in your eyes, the players cant possibly click and play well for another 6/7/8 months?

To be fair, Sherwood has been playing lineups that are completely devoid of any of our summer signings in the starting XI, whereas AVB was under pressure to include them.

Even without any of the new lads in the team they are exactly the same. I think that it was just as much of an excuse to blame the players with AVB as it is with Sherwood, the rot has set in an inexperience has plagued our season. I just hope we get someone in who can soothe it before it becomes irreparable

 

[CJJ]

If the wings are abandoned to Sandro/Capoue, that leaves Dembele as the only player to mark central runs (as I'm assuming you also want to do away with our centerbacks playing higher up). Your formation would be too easy to rip to shreds with two players who aren't backtracking. Giving up on the wings is only going to strain your proposed "spine"

though I don't know why I'm arguing this, fairly sure ILSpur already made this point but you chose to ignore it.

You're the one failing to see the simple here: a team that gives zero backtracking duties to two of its players is not a defensively sound team.

Trying to explain to Gibberish that he's wrong???

'

 

[ILSpur]

This would suggest wingplay:

------------------ade---------------
Eriksen------Demb-----Lamela

This is what I had, a packed midfield:
----------------Ade---------------
--Eriksen--Demb---Lamela--

You dont think Eriksen and Lamela can spark a dynamic/creative midfield? OK> Got it.

Oh, now I get it! Your plan is to take away one of the primary reasons why a 4-2-3-1 works, by packing the middle top of the field with players. It's so stupid that the opposing team will be befuddled the entire game.

You know, if there's one thing we've done worse than wing play, it's being able to open up a team when they park the bus. It's like our kryptonite and we've never had a good solution to it. Your solution though is to further pack the middle of the field. If there's one thing you don't need when you have a team parking the bus, it's your own players not having any room to move.

 

[gibbs131]

If the wings are abandoned to Sandro/Capoue, that leaves Dembele as the only player to mark central runs (as I'm assuming you also want to do away with our centerbacks playing higher up). Your formation would be too easy to rip to shreds with two players who aren't backtracking. Giving up on the wings is only going to strain your proposed "spine"

though I don't know why I'm arguing this, fairly sure ILSpur already made this point but you chose to ignore it.

You're the one failing to see the simple here: a team that gives zero backtracking duties to two of its players is not a defensively sound team.

Quality left back, vert, kab, walker, capoue, sandro, Ade, and Dembele "ripped apart". Hmmm. Lol. Ripped apart.

I have Dembele as an AM:

http://playedoffthepark.net/2013/06/11/mousa-dembele-the-premier-leagues-most-complete/

This team is no pushover. Unless every team in the prem has Bale and ROnaldo on the wings it wont be a problem. Wingplay is not a big thing anymore. We only get attacked down the flanks because we have Rose and Eriksen there. If we had cover in the shape of DM's and a left back that is actually there there will be less options. Not every team has City and Liverpools width. And not every team has fucking idiots in charge like Sherwood.

Speaking of ILSpurs, when I first came on this forum he laughed at my opinion that our English players (apart from Walker) are the weak link of the team. How are Lennon, Townsned, Daws, Rose and Naughton doing? In fact he called me racist for being anti these players.

I claimed they have low footballing IQ's and make us soft Spurs. And he's calling out Vert? I want nothing in common with someone who will lie to himself just to disagree with me. Currently he's being smug in the Townsend thread for some reason. Putting up figures on shots to goals percentages to prove my opinion wrong regarding Townsends shot. I mean he is on target to have the worst shot % in the entire league, but he seems to think its worth documenting that Bentaleb has not scored yet. That is relevant apparently.

So bring up IL Spurs and know this:

He mocks me because I do not rate Lennon, Rose, Townsend, Naughton and wing play in general in this club.
He mock me because I didnt rate AVB.
He thinks Vert cant become a top defender.

Lets see who ends up being right. Oh wait, I've already been proven correct. Vert is out of form but the ENTIRE FOOTBALLING WORLD knows he is ALREADY a top player.

 

[gibbs131]

Oh, now I get it! Your plan is to take away one of the primary reasons why a 4-2-3-1 works, by packing the middle top of the field with players. It's so stupid that the opposing team will be befuddled the entire game.

You know, if there's one thing we've done worse than wing play, it's being able to open up a team when they park the bus. It's like our kryptonite and we've never had a good solution to it. Your solution though is to further pack the middle of the field. If there's one thing you don't need when you have a team parking the bus, it's your own players not having any room to move.

Our Kryptonite has been Lennon, Defoe, Soldado, Townsend, Rose etc having almost ZERO end product in the final third. Our Kryptonite has been a high line. Our Kryptonite has been failing to score from corners etc.

How do you think we would have done if Eriksen had taken 55 more shots at goal instead of Townsend? How do you think Lamela would have done with no tracking back? Is Dembele good at holding up the ball?

This is another case of you arguing a case just because it's me. Townsend and Lennon have 1 assist between them. They have 1 goal each. This is also not knee jerk, I claimed this before the season started.

Our Kryptonite was Soldado, getting crossed to by IDIOT players who thinks he can challenge a parked bus on his own and him getting obliterated. That is why Dembele has to be an AM in he final third. He can roll that bus on its side, and Ade also has beef. Then Eriksen and Lamela should be more open for the excellent passing stats Dembele has in the final third. Ade also had a dozen prem assists in one season, he is good at distribution int he final third.

Dembele should be beating people and passing in the box. Not in his own half like that village idiot AVB made him do in a sad, withdrawn defensive role.

The main thing: Ade, Eriksen and Lamela have a history of SCORING AND CREATING. IMO Soldado will also find his feet without remedial buildup from our so called wingplay.

 

[ILSpur]

Our Kryptonite has been Lennon, Defoe, Soldado, Townsend, Rose etc having almost ZERO end product in the final third. Our Kryptonite has been a high line. Our Kryptonite has been failing to score from corners etc.

This has not been a recent problem, we have shown a consistent inability to break down an entrenched defense for a number of years. This is nothing more than your focus on a few specific players.

How do you think we would have done if Eriksen had taken 55 more shots at goal instead of Townsend?

Probably not too much better. Either it would mean that he was incredibly wasteful or selfish, I would desire neither and an increase in that many shots would have probably accomplished nothing more than lowering his shot accuracy and given away possession. The difference between Townsend and Eriksen is not just number of shots, it's a clear indication of better decision making.

How do you think Lamela would have done with no tracking back?

Shitty. I don't want any player that lacks the ability or desire to track back to help out on defense.

Is Dembele good at holding up the ball?

Sure?

This is another case of you arguing a case just because it's me. Townsend and Lennon have 1 assist between them. They have 1 goal each. This is also not knee jerk, I claimed this before the season started.

Wrong.

This is just your way of washing away valid arguments. Instead of actually addressing my points and putting together a reasonable argument why I'm wrong, you claim that I'm biased against and am just arguing just to argue. I think you're wrong and I ALWAYS provide a full explanation why, generally with evidence to support what I say.

I never defended our quality of wing play, not did I ever defend Lennon or Townsend. In fact, I distinctly remember saying to you that I didn't like having to defend Townsend because I think he's a weakness, but you were wrong about him on a particular point.

Our Kryptonite was Soldado, getting crossed to by IDIOT players who thinks he can challenge a parked bus on his own and him getting obliterated.

In all fairness, this was the system they were put into. I won't defend their quality of play because I can't do that reasonably, but those were the tactics given to them to perform.

That is why Dembele has to be an AM in he final third. He can roll that bus on its side, and Ade also has beef. Then Eriksen and Lamela should be more open for the excellent passing stats Dembele has in the final third. Ade also had a dozen prem assists in one season, he is good at distribution int he final third.

Yes, Dembele is a solid passer. Yes, he has strength. Yes, Ade can pass as well. BUT on a rainy afternoon at Stoke when they're packing 8 men into the box, Dembele will not have the ability to "roll that bus on its side". One man by himself cannot do that, that is unless they happen to be a truly special player, which Dembele isn't. He's good, he's not that good. He doesn't have the speed, that killer instinct, and the vision that the one, magical person has to possess to break down an entire entrenched defense.

Dembele should be beating people and passing in the box. Not in his own half like that village idiot AVB made him do in a sad, withdrawn defensive role.

Don't you think that there is another reason, other than just AVB, that he isn't beating people and passing in the box??

Do you remember this?

http://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.com/2014/1/22/5334712/tottenham-hotspur-mousa-dembele

What has he done since then? He's been pretty average most of the time, maybe slightly better than average? He was given more room to push up, more authorization to get on the attack and he hasn't been able to do it.

The main thing: Ade, Eriksen and Lamela have a history of SCORING AND CREATING. IMO Soldado will also find his feet without remedial buildup from our so called wingplay.

Okay.[/quote]

edit: quote issues.

 

[gibbs131]

Because he's been amazing this season....

Oh yeah...You so smart. Vert can never be a top defender. Because he's had a bad season?

Trying to explain to Gibberish that he's wrong???

'

Aint nobody got time for that? Really? You spend a huge amount of time and effort responding to me. Paragraph after paragraph, constantly, every day. Like I said, a lot of people lie to themselves. In your case you started chasing me around after my comments about AVB.

I presume you were telling a gibbsy back then that they were idiots to doubt AVB too eh? Were you the AVB guy on this forum? Yes or no? Because that will explain how you really go out of your way to disagree with me.

 

[gibbs131]

Probably not too much better.

OK boys and girls. ILSpuris claiming if Eriksen had 55 extra shots at goal, he would not do much better than Townsend.

Townsend who did not score from any of his shots at goal. 55 times.

Keep in mind Eriksen has had 38 shots at goal, and has scored 5 times.

Is this a fucktard clique who can't fight their own battles so they perform slobbering pileons on people who make them look stupid? Like one claims Vert can never be a top defender, so then he gets mocked, so the guy who claims Eriksen (a distance specialist) would not do much better than Townsend from 55 shots has to start screeching and hitting himself in the same thread? I have this mountain of slobbering idiots weighing me down with some incredible points of view.

 

[gibbs131]

This has not been a recent problem, we have shown a consistent inability to break down an entrenched defense for a number of years. This is nothing more than your focus on a few specific players.

Yep. Its called Lennon, Defoe, Deuce, Huddlestone etc all mugging off AVB. Kinda the reason why I got banned from Vital. I started a thread on how these players were mugging AVB when Defoe was scoring early in the season. They had to delete the thread in the end...1 prem goal in 1 calender year for Defoe broke the camels back.

But like you said...I just hate English players right? Google "spice boys mugging avb" the thread will come up, but it's been deleted because it got way too cringeworthy for them to handle as the months, year rolled on.

It will probably happen here because of bitches like you. If enough of you say stupid shit like Vert will never be a good player or Eriksen would not do much better than Townsend shooting...Then history happens and you look like tits, you tend to flock together and get me banned to shut me up.