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I'd still very much like to hear it though. Nice to see the beeb being impartial once more
here is my 2 pence worth
Tottenham's appropriation of the yid word was a response to the anti Semitism it received from other teams mainly chelsea and west ham.
It undoubtedly is used in a celebratory manner and is not a manifestation of hate talk.
The idea that Tottenham fans who are not Jewish are not allowed to appropriate that word in a I Spartacus like manner is bogus.
Even if the other sides anti Semitism was largely eliminated our use of it as a reflection of of our heritage would still be valid.
That being said if on the result of the club consultation the majority of Tottenham Jewish members and ST holders feel we should stop (even if the majority of spurs fans wished us to continue) then we would have to respect those wishes and stop. On the anecdotal evidence of my Tottenham Jewish friends I would think that unlikely and is on a whole welcomed by Tottenham Jewish fans.
In all other matters I bow to @
1882
as he seams to sum our fealing better then any others.
Right rant over going over to the dumb thing thread to see how many people think what a complete twit i've been.
Tottenham's appropriation of the yid word was a response to the anti Semitism it received from other teams mainly chelsea and west ham.
It undoubtedly is used in a celebratory manner and is not a manifestation of hate talk.
The idea that Tottenham fans who are not Jewish are not allowed to appropriate that word in a I Spartacus like manner is bogus.
Even if the other sides anti Semitism was largely eliminated our use of it as a reflection of of our heritage would still be valid.
That being said if on the result of the club consultation the majority of Tottenham Jewish members and ST holders feel we should stop (even if the majority of spurs fans wished us to continue) then we would have to respect those wishes and stop. On the anecdotal evidence of my Tottenham Jewish friends I would think that unlikely and is on a whole welcomed by Tottenham Jewish fans.
In all other matters I bow to @
1882
as he seams to sum our fealing better then any others.Right rant over going over to the dumb thing thread to see how many people think what a complete twit i've been.
@
Flav
I think you did we'll considering. I just wish you'd managed to have time to pick him up on this point that by Using the word we are somehow encouraging the abuse. Does he really think that if we stopped, then the Chelsea fans would stop singing anti Semitic songs? You don't need to use the word yid to do that anyway. 'Spurs are on their way to auschwitz' doesn't for a start.
When I reported that bloke on the tube earlier this year it wasn't because he used the word. It's because he was singing about gassing people.
Flav
I think you did we'll considering. I just wish you'd managed to have time to pick him up on this point that by Using the word we are somehow encouraging the abuse. Does he really think that if we stopped, then the Chelsea fans would stop singing anti Semitic songs? You don't need to use the word yid to do that anyway. 'Spurs are on their way to auschwitz' doesn't for a start.When I reported that bloke on the tube earlier this year it wasn't because he used the word. It's because he was singing about gassing people.
Please get him on the pod btw. Would be very interesting to hear, especially if we're allowed to ask questions in advance.
In fact I say we all tweet him to get him to come on.
In fact I say we all tweet him to get him to come on.
It did sound like he was merely plugging the 'Y-Word' film again!
SO many issues that can be brought up here, not least the very ill conceived notion that Chelsea's fans chant it BACK at us because we continue to use the word...
Baddeil's "it doesn't matter who started it" comment almost cost me a new radio... of COURSE it matters who started it, 'cos he knows full well, that Spurs fans did NOT invent that word for themselves... that was done by our good friends from West and East London (surprised Woolwich's fans got more blame apportioned than West Ham's tbh)
The argument that black people only use the 'N' word to reclaim it as theirs BECAUSE they are black fails to recognise that the 'N' word was specifically used, 'invented' if you will, to aim hatred towards the black community.
As far as I know, black people did not refer to, or identify with the word BEFORE it was used against them... The fact the word Yid/Yiddisher and Yiddish WAS used amongst Jews before the far right jumped all over it is kinda key to the whole argument.
SO many issues that can be brought up here, not least the very ill conceived notion that Chelsea's fans chant it BACK at us because we continue to use the word...
Baddeil's "it doesn't matter who started it" comment almost cost me a new radio... of COURSE it matters who started it, 'cos he knows full well, that Spurs fans did NOT invent that word for themselves... that was done by our good friends from West and East London (surprised Woolwich's fans got more blame apportioned than West Ham's tbh)
The argument that black people only use the 'N' word to reclaim it as theirs BECAUSE they are black fails to recognise that the 'N' word was specifically used, 'invented' if you will, to aim hatred towards the black community.
As far as I know, black people did not refer to, or identify with the word BEFORE it was used against them... The fact the word Yid/Yiddisher and Yiddish WAS used amongst Jews before the far right jumped all over it is kinda key to the whole argument.
Well I just wasted 20 mins debating this with a Chelsea fan friend of mine on twitter.
I won
I won
Perhaps baddiel thinks black players should retire because hearing monkey chants at games offends him. Oh wait, didn't Danny rose get done for making a monkey gesture back at fans in an u21 game for England?
Or maybe, you know, just ban the cunts who are making the monkey chants in the first place.
Honestly, if Baddeil felt SO strongly and offended by hearing anti-semitic chanting, he'd have stopped going to Stamford Bridge long ago, and severed all ties with that cunt of a club he supports...
but then you could argue, why should he let the hardcore far-right Chelsea supporters win, and deny him the right support 'his' club?
Oh yeah, that's where we come in again isn't it...?
but then you could argue, why should he let the hardcore far-right Chelsea supporters win, and deny him the right support 'his' club?
Oh yeah, that's where we come in again isn't it...?
Let's all convert to Judaism at half time and David Baddiel may let it go! 
:adebaehug:
Just listened to it, he seems like a complete and utterly patronising tosser who it would seem thinks that he is somehow smarter than most and holier than thou and as a direct result feels he is somewhat an expert on the matter as he is Jewish. Has he taken into account articles where journalists have actually asked leading Rabbi's on the matter or does he simply dismiss them as he deems them not worthy of his time as they probably don't attend games or even follow football perhaps?
It would be good to get him on the pod so you can actually have a proper debate without him shouting over the top.
I have a picture in my mind that in that studio with Jeremy Vine he had his feet up on a desk clutching a coffee from Starbucks and just kind of making faces like what is this fucking Gary fella on man!!
It would be good to get him on the pod so you can actually have a proper debate without him shouting over the top.
I have a picture in my mind that in that studio with Jeremy Vine he had his feet up on a desk clutching a coffee from Starbucks and just kind of making faces like what is this fucking Gary fella on man!!
Just listened to it, he seems like a complete and utterly patronising tosser who it would seem thinks that he is somehow smarter than most and holier than thou and as a direct result feels he is somewhat an expert on the matter as he is Jewish. Has he taken into account articles where journalists have actually asked leading Rabbi's on the matter or does he simply dismiss them as he deems them not worthy of his time as they probably don't attend games or even follow football perhaps?
It would be good to get him on the pod so you can actually have a proper debate without him shouting over the top.
I have a picture in my mind that in that studio with Jeremy Vine he had his feet up on a desk clutching a coffee from Starbucks and just kind of making faces like what is this fucking Gary fella on man!!
Exactly my thoughts, patronising and aloof, but then that has always been his style right back to the days of the Mary Whitehouse Experience. Flav could barely get a word in edgeways against that egotistical little prick.
It's also worth noting that Vine is a chelsea fan.
I don't think it's quite on that level, but indeed it does stink a little bit of blaming the victim. To be fair, he does have a bit of a point about Jewish demographics and the fact that Jewish support of Spurs cannot be seen as anything more than an incredible minority, and so in that it is a bit eye-brow raising that a predominantly "WASPy" (just had to slide that in here) fan base are calling themselves "yiddos." Basically, most Spurs fans can't call themselves victims, because they aren't actually Jews.
BUT, Spurs fans' solidarity and adoption of the chant was done primarily to show support for the actual victims, and to draw attention to the patent absurdity of opposing fans' racism.
Instead, the focus of racism in English football has consistently been on Spurs, rather than those who are actually practicing hate. And, I just can't follow his logic. His stance is that Spurs supporters are perpetuating the cycle, but that seems naive given that Spurs weren't the ones to start this whole mess, and they aren't the ones hissing and chanting about Auschwitz.
If you want to fight racism, fight the problem at the source and fight hate. Anyone past puberty should understand that hissing and chanting about Auschwitz and "gassing the jews" is unacceptable.
Why the focus is on Spurs supporters is beyond me. Someone badly needs to re-frame the debate.