Wolves (a) 18/19 ratings

[mikes01666]

Lloris MOM and not in your ratings table.

The rest... At 0-3 I thought we might hit 5. Then we gave up. Midfielders strolling around as if they owned the place; mishit 'passes'; defence in panic. At that stage we needed a Keane, Adams, Terry, Roberts figure who would verbally (and even physically) shake us out of our self-satisfied torpor.

If Trippier had tried that ridiculous showboat and Keane was on the field, he would have ripped his head off.

What we needed last night was an an field captain.

Anyway another streaky one gal win. On to PSV.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

With regards your Dier point, Dier’s actually been playing in most of the other games where we’ve been a mess, lost control and in some cases lost leads this season. Very much not the panacea to any of our ills.

My self confessed anti-Dier-in-midfield bias is completely surpassed by your anti-Trippier-anywhere bias. Blaming him because Foyth made two stupid challenges is just plain daft. He was to blame for giving away possession in a stupid area, but had absolutely nothing to do with Winks giving the ball away for the second goal. And on both occasions your blue eyed boy Foyth committed completely rash and needless fouls when there was no danger to our goal.

I don't have unconditional love for Trippier, Ive called out what he did badly in his last two games, have always said I don't think he's always brilliant defensively on occasions, but for me it's always been about compromise, as it is with most of our players, we accept if they were world beaters, they probably wouldn't be with us. I don't think Trippier has generally cost us much defensively, and his midfield and attacking play is productively better than most in this league. Again, we won that game partly because Trippier created the best chance in that game. You cannot just ignore his positive contributions. I also used to watch Walker (and Rose) do stupid things defensively (Poch did improve this somewhat but he's still doing them) and more recently Aurier. If we can upgrade Trippier for a player who defends brilliantly but is also as productive creatively then I'm all for it.

Davies made a bigger error and was saved by a linesman.

I also didn't say the lack of cover was just down to the midfield, but also the front four.

It's kind of apt that following on from a great discussion in the youth thread over the last few days, we saw another great example of Poch not walking his talk of his book and being "brave" with the young players anymore. What we were absolutely crying out for in that game was the tenacious defensive dynamism and industry of Skipp. If not immediately when Dembele went off, then clearly when we'd lost control that second half. And what we really need more than anything, and what would help all our defenders - because at least three out there got exposed and made bad errors - is Poch to get back to having us play as a cohesive team without the ball, not a bunch of individuals. Grow some bollocks and play kids better suited to their roles than plodders like Sissoko and Dier in midfield. Play with some fucking intensity again.

Please, mate, I urge you to watch the build-up to the 2nd pen again, then come on here and try to defend Tripps. In that passage of play alone typifies everything that I see from him in almost every single game he plays. I'll say it again and will only stop saying it when it doesn't happen, but when he plays the oppo target him, every team no matter the quality of it sees him as the weak link. It so, so, so easy to get behind hin he may as well not be there, he not just bad but he's a liability. Our shape, our style you cave is compromised because of what he doesn't bring to the team, not what he does bring to the team (he's a massive part of the jigsaw that isn't fitting now, not the sole reason but for me the biggest reason). Please, please watch it back. Also, watch when the ball is just put up in the air towards him an aimless punt soon becomes an opportunity as he treats the ball/change like a hot potato. I acknowledge his cross, the only one that found his man. All the others resulted in us losing possession of the ball, with him stuck up the pitch, now there's that style thing again, this is why we can't press as we used to, it's simply physically impossible to do so when we give away possession with 9 out of his 10 delivers. Davies was shit, gave him our 2nd lowest score.

Whilst I'd love to have seen Skipp come on, you will not find a bigger fan of him than me, that is still a massive call for Poch to make. I can't get shitty about it, why? Because we won and for large periods we had control of the game, only the last 30-20mins did we lose control. Could we have brought him on at this point? There's an argument for this of course but look how hard Sanchez found it when he came on, Wolves were "do or die", they had nothing to lose giving us the full court press could he have handled that? Also, with so many proper first team players out yesterday that risk is magnified, few "big" players to help him through the game.

If I'm going to have a gripe about lack of academy players playing then the one player that we should have playing for is Adam Smith instead of Tripps, now there is an FB (who can also play LB!!) that is twice the player Tripps is and is one of our own.

 

[iz futbal]

Trippier was shite and useless. Also hes got a horrible habit of whining at players around him when he messes up. Prefer Aurier.

Foyth didnt paint himself in glory. Both penalties were avoidable.

With Dembele injured now, Dier or Wanyama has to play (even if they are poor replacements). Winks wont go face first towards danger.

We won while giving out two penalties , so cant complain too much.

 

[Mick Cooper]

Another superb post match analysis. Unbiased and unafraid to firmly hit nails on their heads. Great write up.

Here's my ratings

Hugo 8
Trippier 6
Toby 8
Foyth 3
Davies 5
Winks 4
Sissoko 4
Lucas 7
Lamela 8
Son 6
Kane 6

(Eriksen 4 Sanchez 5)

3 MotM candidates for me.
Hugo. inspired performance and showed just why he's still a class act.

Lamela. Driving force behind everything going forward. Now a vital part of the machine. Now gives me a stalker seeing his name on the teamsheet.

Toby. When you have a calamatous rookie as your CD partner, and that rookie clumsily gives away 2 penalties, you need a strong , reliable rock to hold it altogether. Toby was that man. Remarkable performance under the circumstances.

Toby narrowly gets my vote.

ochfacepalm:

 

[bus-conductor]

Please, mate, I urge you to watch the build-up to the 2nd pen again, then come on here and try to defend Tripps. In that passage of play alone typifies everything that I see from him in almost every single game he plays. I'll say it again and will only stop saying it when it doesn't happen, but when he plays the oppo target him, every team no matter the quality of it sees him as the weak link. It so, so, so easy to get behind hin he may as well not be there, he not just bad but he's a liability. Our shape, our style you cave is compromised because of what he doesn't bring to the team, not what he does bring to the team (he's a massive part of the jigsaw that isn't fitting now, not the sole reason but for me the biggest reason). Please, please watch it back. Also, watch when the ball is just put up in the air towards him an aimless punt soon becomes an opportunity as he treats the ball/change like a hot potato. I acknowledge his cross, the only one that found his man. All the others resulted in us losing possession of the ball, with him stuck up the pitch, now there's that style thing again, this is why we can't press as we used to, it's simply physically impossible to do so when we give away possession with 9 out of his 10 delivers. Davies was shit, gave him our 2nd lowest score.

Whilst I'd love to have seen Skipp come on, you will not find a bigger fan of him than me, that is still a massive call for Poch to make. I can't get shitty about it, why? Because we won and for large periods we had control of the game, only the last 30-20mins did we lose control. Could we have brought him on at this point? There's an argument for this of course but look how hard Sanchez found it when he came on, Wolves were "do or die", they had nothing to lose giving us the full court press could he have handled that? Also, with so many proper first team players out yesterday that risk is magnified, few "big" players to help him through the game.

If I'm going to have a gripe about lack of academy players playing then the one player that we should have playing for is Adam Smith instead of Tripps, now there is an FB (who can also play LB!!) that is twice the player Tripps is and is one of our own.

I wholeheartedly agree about Smith, signing both Walker and Naughton was idiotic when we had Smith here.

I think you are massively exaggerating the negatives and completely ignoring or belittling the good aspects of Trippier. Ignoring the fact that his crossing is about as good as anyone's in this league (it's not like City aren't still losing possession every time Walker hits shit crosses - which he is), it's not a coincidence that he also has a better key pass rate in the CL than Messi, Alcantara, Silva, Rakatic, Modric etc etc. The boy is one of our most incisive passers and frequently plays those great balls that release plays in that inside channel.

I do not accept he was to blame - in any discernible way for their second penalty. He chests it to Winks, Winks then gives it away and there is very little Trippier can do.

And the thing about "targeting" is also disingenuous IMO, the way Poch sets us up to play, with full backs pushed up and playing a major part in our attacking structure, if we play a back 4, we will - and have - always been susceptible to being countered "behind the FB's" and in our current guise, Trippier is by far the more pro-active of our two sides. But this was always and Achilles heel of this system, even when we had Walker and Rose and I can remember having this argument with people even when they were both playing. There is no real tangible evidence that people "target" Trippier per se, like yesterday, they put Traore on the left to go at Davies, not the other side, logic would have suggested they'd have told him to go on the left if this was the case, and it's the same most weeks, I don't see managers change their personnel or strategies specifically to target our right side and Ive posted the statistical evidence from last season which shows we conceded more dangerous passes from our left.

Lastly, for me, our biggest issues, by a long margin are our midfield. We pretty much don't have one. Dembele's been varying degrees of fucked since we've had him, Wanyama is now fucked, Dier isn't a midfielder, Winks can't defend, Sissoko can barely play football. This is the root of all our problems because this is what prevents us from creating, pressing and defending properly. The midfield is the engine of any team and ours blown a gasket and three pistons. Urgent re-build required. Then we can worry about finding the next undiscovered Philip Lahm.

 

[bus-conductor]

It was so predictable that we would hit problems in centre midfield this season with Wanyama and Dembele both likely to get injured at any time just crossing the road or getting out of bed. I share your lack of enthusiasm for Dier as a midfielder. Now if Poch did not think Skipp or any of the young reserves could do the DM job then presumably he told Levy that if nothing else he needed a reinforcement in that area during the summer window. In which case Levy was the one who failed to grow some bollocks.

In the meantime maybe playing Foyth in the DM role may be one temporary solution.

He already did that and we ended up with Sissoko. Now it’s Poch’s turn to show some bollocks, drop the dead donkey and play one of the kids.

 

[RESPECT THE COCK]

I don't give a fuck about assists stats, genuinely one of the worst stats in the game. He's in my fantasy team because all they care about is points for assists and goals. He has so many crosses per game he's going to get an assist once in a while, fantasy football doesn't care how many failed crosses it takes. With every failed cross we concede possession and he's now stuck up the pitch, HE WILL NOT RECOVER FROM THERE, HE NEVER DOES. So, we are now open, our right flank gapping like 80-year-old whores flange. It's like chucking a stick up an alley, it's so fucking easy. Our team then has to compensate to cover the munchkins arse, our CB's get pulled out wide, our midfield gets pulled out wide. Now any "normal" RB that gets caught high tends to be able to get back and help most of the time, either covering his own position or filling in the midfielder or CB that has been pulled out, he dose nither of this, his still waiving his arms about blaming one of our own players for his shit cross.

Now all that is when he's on the ball, attacking. But when he's in the defence he can't defend for shit.

All you have to do if you are the oppo is draw him onto you, get him high up the pitch, you are going to defend his cross because it's really not that hard to do, such as their low percentage, then attack the space he's left. It really is that easy.

Shut up and reply to my PM, you cock.

 

[HampshireSpur]

Lloris - made some really good saves. 8

Trippier - good going forward for the first 30 mins, horror show for first pen especially but sloppy defending throughout. Did set up a goal and was involved in another. 5
Toby - (probably) the pick of the defenders. Still not on top form IMHO. 6
Foyth - played well for much of the game but contributed to sloppy pens. Tough start for him. 5
Davies - regressed recently. Needs to do more offensively and defensively. Not on 2016-17 levels. 4

Sissoko - playing much better now, dynamic running. Final product still uncertain. 6.5
Winks - tidy in possession. Some good forward passing, faded a bit later. 6.5
Lucas - took his header well. 6.5
Lamela - tireless. Love what's happened to him this season. Joint MOTM along with Lloris. 8
Dembele - off early so difficult to judge, really. Can't give more than about half marks. 5

Kane - actually pretty quiet but he's always there when you need him. 7

Son - quite quiet. 5.5
Eriksen - good to see him back but quiet (understandably). 5
Sanchez - came on at the worst possible time for a CB really. 5.5

Just to add about the game itself - I quite enjoyed it, not good for the heart rate (!) but two teams going at it, playing football on the front foot. Plenty of good teams will drop points at Molinuex this season - the crowd are passionate and got behind them, which I really liked.

Also kind of cheered by the fact that we are winning games without really playing well. I won't make full judgment on our season until we have more players back - so many first teamers are out at the moment, so it's hard to say exactly how good or bad our season will be. Obviously can make a judgment on individual and team performances.

 

[dannythomas]

He already did that and we ended up with Sissoko. Now it’s Poch’s turn to show some bollocks, drop the dead donkey and play one of the kids.

But by your own admission Sissoko is not a central midfielder. So how did that signing , which of course Pre dated the chronic injury problems of Wanyama and Dembele, justify not buying a central midfielder in the summer ? I don’t see the logic, unless of course you are saying that because Sissoko was a bad signing that Poch shouldn’t be trusted to sign anyone else.

 

[bus-conductor]

But by your own admission Sissoko is not a central midfielder. So how did that signing , which of course Pre dated the chronic injury problems of Wanyama and Dembele, justify not buying a central midfielder in the summer ? I don’t see the logic, unless of course you are saying that because Sissoko was a bad signing that Poch shouldn’t be trusted to sign anyone else.

It was a flippant remark that does relate to Poch's new position as de facto head of the recruitment tree which has seen us waste a fistful of dollars.

 

[bus-conductor]

Correction. It was Alderweireld caught ball watching when they scored their disallowed goal, not Davies. It was not good from Alderweireld.

 

[bus-conductor]

I don’t think we’re any different from other clubs in terms of having successful and unsuccessful signings . For every Sissoko, Fazio, Stambouli, Clinton , Wimmer, Jansssen and Llorente there is a Dele, Son, Alderweireld , Wanyama , Sanchez , Foyth and Moura.

My point was that our more recent business has been less inspiring. I definitely do not consider Moura a roaring success, or Aurier, Sissoko and Llorente and the jury is still out on Foyth and to a lesser degree on Sanchez.

 

[bus-conductor]

I believe all the players I listed good and bad were signed under the Poch regime . I listed Sissoko and Llorente as bad signings and I would say the jury is out on Aurier

But what's happened in the last couple of years is we have changed our recruitment structure and model. We've gone from having a head coach (Pochettino) who works within a structure/committee with either a DOF (or de facto DOF) with a recruitment analytics team (which we put together to replace the de facto DOF structure) headed up by Paul Mitchell where there was a committee with head of analytics (Mitchell), McDermott, Levy and Poch to a more old fashioned model with Poch becoming an old fashioned "manager" having far more influence (this was widely reported). We jettisoned the Mitchell/analytics team completely, brought back Hitchen and have made more overt signings like Sissoko, Aurier, Llorente, Moura.

I have to disagree about Sanchez . He was phenomenal last season and yes he still has his dodgy moments but he is still young and progressing . Like the entire defence he looks better when Vertonghen plays . And Moura has definitely increased our attacking options whether he should be a starter or not .

I like Sanchez too, but at 40m was no bargain, and if TA had signed a new contract I wonder if Poch would be picking him every week? That's what I meant by Jury out.

Moura's increased our options numerically but he's not really added something vastly different to the mix. Whizzy legs, but he's another erratic and unreliable player who lacks a bit of composure. I would much rather we'd have targeted a player with some real intellect and composure for that final third.

You criticized Poch for bringing on Son rather than Skipp but rather like Liverpool last season we are having to out score the opposition because our attacking players ( Kane , Son , Dele , Lucas and Lamela ) are clearly where our strengths lie and everyone can see that we are presently weak in CM and arguably in defence too . We look liable to concede at any time but we also look capable of scoring at any time . So I’m not sure I would say the Son substitution was cowardly or even negative.

Going back to CM I really would like to see Eriksen playing in a deeper role a la Modric . Especially with a lot of creativity coming from Lamela right now . But of course he has to put in a better shift than he did on Saturday. Hopefully that was just him being short of game time . But if he plays that role we should only need one of Dier and Wanyama doing the DM job .

But that's egg before chicken isn't it. The reason you think we have to try and "outscore" opponents is because of our defensive frailties. If you address the defensive frailties with your tactical structure and application then that negates the need to turn games into lotteries where we "out attack" teams with poorer individuals and are found wanting against teams with better individuals (or better tactically - ie Liverpool).

You would hope that Poch would have prepared Skipp to play that CM/DM role because he's putting him on the bench and he knows he has players with either injury concerns (Dembele) or tactical ones (Winks, Sissoko). To then abandon that structure after a few minutes seems odd to me. It weakened our midfield and exposed our FB's. He could always have brought Son later to change us offensively.

I don't mind the idea of Eriksen as an 8 in a CM3 either, but again, with the right other two players, the central one needs to be a tenacious busy fucker who'll provide insurance for the lateral 8's.

 

[Doom Funk]

My point was that our more recent business has been less inspiring. I definitely do not consider Moura a roaring success, or Aurier, Sissoko and Llorente and the jury is still out on Foyth and to a lesser degree on Sanchez.

Our business has been truly woeful for a good 3 years or so but I think Moura is an exception to be honest , I really like him , reckon he will only get better over time as well

 

[bus-conductor]

Our business has been truly woeful for a good 3 years or so but I think Moura is an exception to be honest , I really like him , reckon he will only get better over time as well

I wish I could share that optimism. He’s lively, and has some ability, but I think he’s lacking in the brain area.