Watching Football

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

I only started watching football during the Moscow World Cup on TV when I retired (American) so still learning. I've read various books on tactics and probably watch three or four Premier games a weekend, but there is still a lot that goes over my head. When those of you who have played football, or grown up following it, watch on TV what are some things you look for that tip you off on what the teams are trying to accomplish and what the key individual matchups are? It strikes me that the it's a game about spaces and spacing and there are limitations to watching on TV.

Your clearly not as naive as you make out mate, because you have clearly identified a massive issue of televised football. Off the ball in soccer is almost as important as the individual on the ball. And yes you control the space you can control the game and its out come.

The camera follows the ball, but as a player simple chasing the ball like a puppy would make you a terrible player. The appreciation of space as a player where and when to make a run can take you from average to excellent footballer, there was nothing particularly special about Frank Lampard, but his timing of when to arrive in or around the box elevated a physically average player with decent technique to an elite one.

Going from the micro to macro Pep Guadiola's teams constantly recycle the ball looking for the space to hurt an opponent they create overloads with their quick passing and have individuals with such great technical ability they can play one and two touch to open you up and score. So yes you have identified correctly how pivotal to football space is. Go to a live top game and watch the blokes working as hard off the ball as on it you will see they often decide out comes.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

From a Spurs perspective take Pape Mata Sarr, if you watched on television until this season (when he added goals and assits) Hojbjerg would often impress you more. Hojbjerg can play a great forward pass, and on occasion finish well. But I knew for over quite a long time that Sarr was better for our system and young though he was would make us better even if you lost a little on experience and guile.

Why? Because I watched them both live, I was able to see poor old Piere fail repeatedly to close space and see his oponents breeze past him off the ball. Sarr was filling holes and supporting the midfeild to a much higher level even if he sometimes didn't ( due to inexperience read the play on occasion well enough) Ange immediately saw it, but I got why it took so many on this forum so long to let go of the idea Hojbjerg should start ahead of the kid. Their perception was skewed by what the camera chose to show them.

 

[Henry Hotspur]

Good thread this.

To a newcomer I’d say the pace of the game at the top level is characterised as ‘slow-slow-slow-then-quick-lightening quick’! The speed is both of thought (seeing a pass or making a run) and of physics.

*blatant bragging to follow….

I played at a good level when I was a kid (Spurs and Palace, then non-league, then pub football!!). I was 5’10 at 14 and was moved to CB where I had the game in front of me, which suited me very well. Trouble was I never got much past that height and was inevitably moved into midfield. At Palace, for example, I was continually frustrated by my lack of speed. I was slowish-ish in a straight sprint but that’s not the entirety of it. The game seemed to be being played around me.

The kids who ‘had it’ either had searing pace, combined with impressive athleticism AND/OR had the ability and touch to buy themselves time to make the right decisions.

As for where to watch in the ground, I’d say I used to like the freedom of terraces to choose to watch at pitch level some of the time and then at others higher up to see the tactical plans play out.

I sit up in the 5th tier Paxton/West at WHL where I can see a lot of the movement and space. On the few occasions I’ve sat down low at the new ground I’m amazed by footballers touch (rightly it’s second nature).

The best player I ever played with was Jamie Redknapp, who could see things we mere mortals just couldn’t. As Spurs fans we were accustomed to thinking of him as slow (and he was for the average PL player) but his slow would have been our lightening quick!

 

[Bow Lockes]

Just log on to here.

Its amazing how many people know everything there is to know about football on here.

Truely educational

 

[BernardMatthews]

I only started watching football during the Moscow World Cup on TV when I retired (American) so still learning. I've read various books on tactics and probably watch three or four Premier games a weekend, but there is still a lot that goes over my head. When those of you who have played football, or grown up following it, watch on TV what are some things you look for that tip you off on what the teams are trying to accomplish and what the key individual matchups are? It strikes me that the it's a game about spaces and spacing and there are limitations to watching on TV.

Watching on tv is a very limited experience. But you get the benefit of replays which people at the game don’t get.

As the camera just follows the ball that’s really all you can do too for most of the game.
If they ever show 2/3 replays of the same action you could watch a particular player or try and get a better idea of runs players are making off the ball.

The other thing tv doesn’t relay well is the speed they play at and space they have or don’t have.
On tv it looks like obvious passes are being missed / ignored. In real-time players never see these spaces.
When you’re pitchside at player level you can’t see the other side of the pitch easily.

 

[Sir Alfred Conn]

Fascinating thread this. I watch a lot of lower league (Blackpool) and non league (Maidstone United) football. The difference in speed and possession is incredible to when I watch Spurs
Hope you can get over for a game sometime

 

[Dudski]

I only started watching football during the Moscow World Cup on TV when I retired (American) so still learning. I've read various books on tactics and probably watch three or four Premier games a weekend, but there is still a lot that goes over my head. When those of you who have played football, or grown up following it, watch on TV what are some things you look for that tip you off on what the teams are trying to accomplish and what the key individual matchups are? It strikes me that the it's a game about spaces and spacing and there are limitations to watching on TV.

 

[Arthur Wensleydale]

Boot it in the net. Hope this helps.

 

[Dudski]

Watching on tv is a very limited experience. But you get the benefit of replays which people at the game don’t get.

As the camera just follows the ball that’s really all you can do too for most of the game.
If they ever show 2/3 replays of the same action you could watch a particular player or try and get a better idea of runs players are making off the ball.

The other thing tv doesn’t relay well is the speed they play at and space they have or don’t have.
On tv it looks like obvious passes are being missed / ignored. In real-time players never see these spaces.
When you’re pitchside at player level you can’t see the other side of the pitch easily.

Good points. One thing I try to do is stop locking in on the ball but looking at where the ball may be about to go (especially in the final third). And you're right about the speed. If you back the cameras up far enough you'll completely miss how fast things are happening.

 

[Dudski]

From a Spurs perspective take Pape Mata Sarr, if you watched on television until this season (when he added goals and assits) Hojbjerg would often impress you more. Hojbjerg can play a great forward pass, and on occasion finish well. But I knew for over quite a long time that Sarr was better for our system and young though he was would make us better even if you lost a little on experience and guile.

Why? Because I watched them both live, I was able to see poor old Piere fail repeatedly to close space and see his oponents breeze past him off the ball. Sarr was filling holes and supporting the midfeild to a much higher level even if he sometimes didn't ( due to inexperience read the play on occasion well enough) Ange immediately saw it, but I got why it took so many on this forum so long to let go of the idea Hojbjerg should start ahead of the kid. Their perception was skewed by what the camera chose to show them.

Really great points. This is hardly a technical term, but one thing I watch for is anytime one player gains the shoulder of the man defending against him. It seems that when a team breaks the other's shape it often begins when one player's pace gets them past, or at least on the shoulder, of the defender. Even if they can't get all the way clear it changes things.

 

[rusty]

when you go to a live game get a seat high up behind one of the goals
you can watch the whole play open out,
you will see how forwards create and move into space,
watching you will see most players hold the ball too long and the space or movement created by the forwards is wasted as the ball doesn't come (because only a few players can see a pass) we had Kane and before that it was Eriksen that could see a pass
at what ever level you watch there are only odd players that can see the pass before its there
my lad had this skill, recieved the ball one touch and played into the forwards path, when i asked him "how did you see that pass" he said "you just see it"

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

when you go to a live game get a seat high up behind one of the goals
you can watch the whole play open out,
you will see how forwards create and move into space,
watching you will see most players hold the ball too long and the space or movement created by the forwards is wasted as the ball doesn't come (because only a few players can see a pass) we had Kane and before that it was Eriksen that could see a pass
at what ever level you watch there are only odd players that can see the pass before its there
my lad had this skill, recieved the ball one touch and played into the forwards path, when i asked him "how did you see that pass" he said "you just see it"

Yeah at its best it's as logical as 'you just see it' truly gifted players are almost working on sixth sense.

 

[Dudski]

Boot it in the net. Hope this helps.

You should talk to Mr. Werner.

 

[dondo]

Was at the spurs Man City cup match this season and seeing the way city pass and move at the ground where you can see the whole picture was something else. Foden was amazing that night and I never fully appreciated him as a player until I saw him live

 

[Dudski]

Your clearly not as naive as you make out mate, because you have clearly identified a massive issue of televised football. Off the ball in soccer is almost as important as the individual on the ball. And yes you control the space you can control the game and its out come.

The camera follows the ball, but as a player simple chasing the ball like a puppy would make you a terrible player. The appreciation of space as a player where and when to make a run can take you from average to excellent footballer, there was nothing particularly special about Frank Lampard, but his timing of when to arrive in or around the box elevated a physically average player with decent technique to an elite one.

Going from the micro to macro Pep Guadiola's teams constantly recycle the ball looking for the space to hurt an opponent they create overloads with their quick passing and have individuals with such great technical ability they can play one and two touch to open you up and score. So yes you have identified correctly how pivotal to football space is. Go to a live top game and watch the blokes working as hard off the ball as on it you will see they often decide out comes.

We're getting a really low level pro team locally this spring and I'm planning and getting out to their games and more college games so I can get a better feel for that. It's funny how when I started watching it all seemed so random, then you notice little things like triangles and it starts making sense. It's great getting to watch so many Premier League games, but that "earth from space" camera view is maddening. It's also annoying how the TV broadcasts take the crowd noise down to nothing. Sometimes I'll catch a game on BBC World Service in the car while I'm out running an errand and one I come back in the house and see the same match on TV it seems a lot less exciting.

 

[Zomb]

Absolute fraud of a player for us, still disgusts me he was our captain

Do you all know the story about a guy who run a website called Topspurs criticising him, and calling him out when he fucked off to the Caribbean for a break when he should have been training? Junior Twitch got his mobile and called him up and had a go at him and Jim told him to F off

Agree by the way. Absolute wage thief

 

[Henry Hotspur]

Redknapp at Spurs or as a kid? He was a good player early in his career but awful at Spurs

As a kid. Clearly gonna be a top level professional. But yeah, cart horse pace when he came to us. Shouldn’t have been made captain.

 

[Zomb]

Was at the spurs Man City cup match this season and seeing the way city pass and move at the ground where you can see the whole picture was something else. Foden was amazing that night and I never fully appreciated him as a player until I saw him live

There’s always a few players that stand out live. Bernardo Silva was superb when Monaco ripped us at Wembley. Viera was always the best player on the pitch, Pires was another player and the flip side is I never really rated Henry live….

 

[dondo]

There’s always a few players that stand out live. Bernardo Silva was superb when Monaco ripped us at Wembley. Viera was always the best player on the pitch, Pires was another player and the flip side is I never really rated Henry live….

Ginola was amazing too. You just didn’t notice how physically strong he was until you saw him live. Gary Neville tried to kick him one game at WHL , Ginola easily stood up to it and embarrassed him for most of the game until Nevile got himself sent off

 

[Zomb]

Ginola was amazing too. You just didn’t notice how physically strong he was until you saw him live. Gary Neville tried to kick him one game at WHL , Ginola easily stood up to it and embarrassed him for most of the game until Nevile got himself sent off

Was at that game, completely agree. Powerful and a touch from heaven, utterly two footed