The players are average

[Dru]

Its about time people looked at the bigger picture and realised to get into that top 4, you need world class players in one or two positions. We have sold the only ones we had and havent replaced them. We cant pay these players the wages to attract them to the club.

The only player in that team tonight that would get anywhere near any of the current top 4 would be Lloris, Walker at a push, the rest are average players, who potentially, one or two may come good.

Its really that simple for me. You sell the likes of Modric and Bale (becuase we had to) and rather than bring in the likes of Moutinho, Villa etc that the manager wanted (even if they were pipe dreams) we bring in the likes of Siggy, Chadli etc, then a few others with very bright futures and then sack the manager after 16 games or whatever it was.

So, take away our best players, replace with average and then sack the manager when we arent performing even better than we were when we had the better players.

What a mess.

Yet sadly, thats what we are faced with, and thats the way it will continue to be until we are able to pay the top wages for the top players - if we ever will.

 

[Doom Funk]

The players may be average but we should not be losing at home to west ham twice in a few months. Something is seriously wrong imo

 

[Gothamizm]

Let's go through it player by player then.

Gomes - no longer an option
Friedel - at odds with the system our coach wanted in place
Lloris - an undoubtedly world class player

Walker - a solid right back who has, this season, pressed on and become a real presence within the team
Rose - we gambled that he would continue his good form from Sunderland. He hasn't yet - due to injury.
Kaboul - a man who was built up to be godlike due to his injury layoff - now looks error-prone and rusty. Whether his skills will return, it's unclear.
Vertonghen - a player who, unless we have a meteoric rise in the next six months, is too good for us and will leave
Naughton - must I say anything?
Chiriches - a player who was bought for potential but has so far delivered. He could be in the Vertonghen bracket soon enough.
Dawson - a player ageing before our very eyes. As much as I love Dawson for his contributions to the club and his love for Spurs, he embodies most failings that can be levelled at English footballers in general.
Fryers - all potential and not yet ready for the big stage.

Lennon - has quietly developed over the past few seasons despite putting in relatively few games. Now looks like he may be regressing.
Paulinho - a big money outlay who embodied the problems in the AVB system - always playing with his back to goal and responsible for lateral distribution rather than moving it forwards
Lamela - frankly, we haven't got a good read on him because he's been under-utilised thus far. Could be worth all the hype or on the next ferry to Ajax but we just haven't seen him play enough.
Holtby - has come on leaps and bounds this season but remains a raw talent.
Capoue - looks better with every game he plays in midfield but is not a convincing defender
Townsend - a one trick pony that needs to develop down the left rather than everywhere else.
Dembele - has really picked up again this season but is a force to move the ball forwards, not win it back
Chadli - bought as the finished article at his age and has shown stability rather than outstanding ability.
Sigurdsson - has to go down as a big disappointment. Shows flashes of brilliance but is really competing for a number 10 role with at least three others that have him beat.
Eriksen - bought for potential and shows flashes of it. Very early to judge but when he is good, he's very very good
Sandro - the beast is back...except when he isn't. The injuries are beginning to rack up and I don't want him to be a sicknote player because he is someone we can build the team around. When he plays.

Soldado - difficult to judge because he can do great things but is often isolated. Increasingly looks like the wrong striker for the system AVB had but it's a question of, "What now?"
Defoe - when he does the non-Defoe things, he has a great game. When he concentrates on getting some space, turning and shooting...he's shit.
Adebayor - impossible to figure out which Adebayor is going to turn up. When he's motivated, he's great and when he's not, he's dead weight.


There you have it. Lengthy and brutal but a lot of potential waiting to show itself. We need to develop these players but I feel that, under AVB, the balance between development and victory was about right - it was at the cost of attacking football though.

Under a makeshift team and an as-yet undecided manager...who knows.

 

[Drewinho]

Lloris and Vertonghen are both world class and Eriksen, Lamela, Chiriches etc could all become world class. What we need is a new striker as Defoe is cack now.

It's easy to be negative right now but with the right appointment we can actually still be challenging top 4 this season.

 

[Dru]

You paint a pretty bleak picture. We all know things are a bit of a mess and up in the air, but those teams above us are far from light years ahead of us, despite their greater financial muscle.

I know I do and I hate being negative but I have been thinking this since the start of the season. I called Soldado as a poor buy although I was desperate to be proved wrong - of course any fan would want him to be good but I asked when we signed him if he was so good, why couldnt he get in the Spain team when Torres was so shit? What was his game all about?
Capoue?Chiriches?Chadli? Who looked at them and thought, yea, they will step us up a level?

We have lost King, VDV, Modric and Bale in the last few years. Replacing none of them. Vertonghen is the only one that comes close but he isnt at the level King was, not yet.

Its not the players fault but for me, its clear as day, this squad everyone was raving about at the start of the season simply isnt better then any of the current top 4.

Maybe by the start of next season we may have seen real signs of progress had we stuck with a manager for a change, maybe we wouldnt, who knows. All I know if this group of players isnt good enuogh no matter who the maanger is? Who is our world class talent? Who are our leaders?

 

[skyfarer]

It's not so much about lacking world-class players, but about the balance. We have too many physical 'beasts' and fast runners but not enough Modrics - players who understand "pass and move", players with vision, players who can pass incisively and intelligently under pressure.

I don't think Everton have any world-class players, but they're not doing too badly, are they? I'm not convinced we're even as passing-oriented as Southampton with Lallana and Schneiderlin. And then when we do have some genuine thinkers and passers in the squad like Eriksen, we don't actually play them. Or we send them off to QPR (though I do understand that Carroll is nowhere near ready for a full campaign here).

 

[KeaneBean]

Let's go through it player by player then.

Gomes - no longer an option
Friedel - at odds with the system our coach wanted in place
Lloris - an undoubtedly world class player

Walker - a solid right back who has, this season, pressed on and become a real presence within the team
Rose - we gambled that he would continue his good form from Sunderland. He hasn't yet - due to injury.
Kaboul - a man who was built up to be godlike due to his injury layoff - now looks error-prone and rusty. Whether his skills will return, it's unclear.
Vertonghen - a player who, unless we have a meteoric rise in the next six months, is too good for us and will leave
Naughton - must I say anything?
Chiriches - a player who was bought for potential but has so far delivered. He could be in the Vertonghen bracket soon enough.
Dawson - a player ageing before our very eyes. As much as I love Dawson for his contributions to the club and his love for Spurs, he embodies most failings that can be levelled at English footballers in general.
Fryers - all potential and not yet ready for the big stage.

Lennon - has quietly developed over the past few seasons despite putting in relatively few games. Now looks like he may be regressing.
Paulinho - a big money outlay who embodied the problems in the AVB system - always playing with his back to goal and responsible for lateral distribution rather than moving it forwards
Lamela - frankly, we haven't got a good read on him because he's been under-utilised thus far. Could be worth all the hype or on the next ferry to Ajax but we just haven't seen him play enough.
Holtby - has come on leaps and bounds this season but remains a raw talent.
Capoue - looks better with every game he plays in midfield but is not a convincing defender
Townsend - a one trick pony that needs to develop down the left rather than everywhere else.
Dembele - has really picked up again this season but is a force to move the ball forwards, not win it back
Chadli - bought as the finished article at his age and has shown stability rather than outstanding ability.
Sigurdsson - has to go down as a big disappointment. Shows flashes of brilliance but is really competing for a number 10 role with at least three others that have him beat.
Eriksen - bought for potential and shows flashes of it. Very early to judge but when he is good, he's very very good
Sandro - the beast is back...except when he isn't. The injuries are beginning to rack up and I don't want him to be a sicknote player because he is someone we can build the team around. When he plays.

Soldado - difficult to judge because he can do great things but is often isolated. Increasingly looks like the wrong striker for the system AVB had but it's a question of, "What now?"
Defoe - when he does the non-Defoe things, he has a great game. When he concentrates on getting some space, turning and shooting...he's shit.
Adebayor - impossible to figure out which Adebayor is going to turn up. When he's motivated, he's great and when he's not, he's dead weight.


There you have it. Lengthy and brutal but a lot of potential waiting to show itself. We need to develop these players but I feel that, under AVB, the balance between development and victory was about right - it was at the cost of attacking football though.

Under a makeshift team and an as-yet undecided manager...who knows.

Agree, apart from Rose. I know he's been injured but when he has played, he's been very good.

I especially agree with the part about AVB having the balance right.

 

[yiddo2786]

The players are average? Rubbish. A gelled, settled, injury free side that looks something like

Lloris
Walker Chiriches Vertonghen Rose
Sandro Dembele
Lamela Eriksen Chadli
Soldado​

with Lennon, Townsend, Holtby, Defoe, Adebayor, Sigurdsson, Paulinho and Capoue as options off the bench is good enough to challenge for the top 4. Really our troubles have come from unfortunate injuries to Rose and Eriksen, among others, and Lamela taking time to settle in. That being said, it was difficult for Lamela for settle into the side when he wasn't playing first team games at all.

Not one person thought the side wasn't good enough to challenge at the close of the transfer window. Some wanted a left back and they were probably right.

the chairmans fucking average, he gets treated like the messiah for balancing the fucking books whoopdedo thats what the fuck he's supposed to do as a bare minimum, just because sugar and scholar were fucking shite doesn't mean he's sum sort of fuckn wonder chairman

then he undermines whoever the current schmuck managing the team is every fuckn transfer window without fail year in year out

the most important thing this little bald twat has to do by a country fuckn mile is higher a good manager and back him 100% thru thick and thin unless relegation becomes a possibility but he's consistently bottled his most important duty since he got here

Hiring a good manager is a piece of piss, right? Only four teams in the Premier League have had the same manager for the last two years. Three of those managers (Allardyce, Pardew and Mackay) have been in the top few favourites to be sacked all season long. Mackay will probably be sacked within the next month. Woolwich fans were baying for Wenger's sacking at the start of the season, too. When Levy is seeing no sort of improvement whatsoever over 18 months he pulls the trigger. And why not? We've looked shit for a long time. We lost 5-0 at home to fucking Liverpool. We lost 3-0 at home to fucking West Ham. We haven't thrashed a side in the league since Gareth Bale took apart Villa almost exactly 12 months ago.

And sacking should only become a possibility when relegation is looking a serious reality? Wow. You'd be content with continuing to completely back the manager if we were finishing 10th every year?

EDIT - http://www.thefightingcock.co.uk/forum/threads/franco-watermelon-bollocks-baldini.6707/

 

[Arjun]

Don't forget Vertonghen.

I think Gylfi and Chadli were two signings we didn't need. To think VDV left because (in part) his place was under threat by Gylfi saddens me. I'm still a fan of Gylfi but he is too much of a passenger for me.

Still a lot of quality in the team though, we just new to utilise it properly. Still think we have a great squad but agree that we are still missing that added pedigree of someone that is on the level of a Bale or a Modric.

Our best bet is to let Lamela/Eriksen/Holtby.. 3 young players grow here as I think they are special (especially the first two.. Holtby is disappointing me, thought he was awful when he came on today)

 

[Dru]

It's not so much about lacking world-class players, but about the balance. We have too many physical 'beasts' and fast runners but not enough Modrics - players who understand "pass and move", players with vision, players who can pass incisively and intelligently under pressure.

I don't think Everton have any world-class players, but they're not doing too badly, are they? I'm not convinced we're even as passing-oriented as Southampton with Lallana and Schneiderlin. And then when we do have some genuine thinkers and passers in the squad like Eriksen, we don't actually play them. Or we send them off to QPR (though I do understand that Carroll is nowhere near ready for a full campaign here).

Everton arent doing too badly no - but they wont finish in the top 4 either.

 

[1882]

I forgot Defoe was playing tonight... I think that says it all! (and I wasn't even that pissed!)

 

[fuzzydunlop]

Cant understand what the fuck people see in Kyle Walker?!
Along with Defoe, he is the most Overrated player I have seen in a long long time at this club.
At fault for BOTH goals tonight.
Deadwood.

 

[Shnadsy]

I'm still a fan of Gylfi but he is too much of a passenger for me.

Feel sorry for Sigg though, he would come off the back of a good performance and a goal and then cop the bench.
Not to mention being played on the left wing!
Put the guy behind the striker, or in the middle like today. He is that guy you want on the edge of the box!

 

[OZHotspur]

We are a selling club, end of.

The Champions league has always been and will always be a top class tournament. We didn't get into it because other teams were shit!! We got there on Merit, and did bloody well. The current problems began when Levy didnt strengthen that squad and build from there.

We did not buy well in the summer. All of our signings so far havent worked out, and most of them if were being honest dont look like theyre gonna make the grade.

first point. Im not taking away from our top 4 achievements simply highlighting it was a combination of us being good and established top 4 teams being shit.

second. eriksen, lamela, vlad, capoue, soldado were chased by some of the biggest teams in the world based on the talent and performances..its hardly levy's fault if they havent fired.

give them time and then make a judgement, personally i dont think avb was using these players in the right way

ether way time well tell im just sick of all the melters and ppl with a sense of entitlement..

 

[fuzzydunlop]

first point. Im not taking away from our top 4 achievements simply highlighting it was a combination of us being good and established top 4 teams being shit.

second. eriksen, lamela, vlad, capoue, soldado were chased by some of the biggest teams in the world based on the talent and performances..its hardly levy's fault if they havent fired.

give them time and then make a judgement, personally i dont think avb was using these players in the right way

ether way time well tell im just sick of all the melters and ppl with a sense of entitlement..

I know what you're saying fella.

I question the fact that so called 'massive clubs' were chasing these players. If so, why the hell did they come to us?! It makes no sense! This tells me that they are not as good as everyone is making out. Of course we should give them time and see what happens. But from what I've seen with my own eyes, I am not over confident in any of them. Vlad is the only one who seems like he's settling properly, but still has a long way to go.

I'm still bloody fuming about last night! Had to come straight to work after the game soaking wet and cold, and still have another hour left before I finish!

Need my bed.

 

[LEGO Boy]

You paint a pretty bleak picture. We all know things are a bit of a mess and up in the air, but those teams above us are far from light years ahead of us, despite their greater financial muscle.

 

[Dru]

We shouldnt be losing to a West Ham team playing McCartney at CB - no we really fucking shouldnt. Ade and Defoe should be able to trouble that strting lineup -it was appalling.

Its just showing up players for the averagness they are.

Try to imagine some of our players playing for Villa/West Brom..any other average team. I bet you wouldnt want to sign them if that were the case.

 

[Drewinho]

I know I do and I hate being negative but I have been thinking this since the start of the season. I called Soldado as a poor buy although I was desperate to be proved wrong - of course any fan would want him to be good but I asked when we signed him if he was so good, why couldnt he get in the Spain team when Torres was so shit? What was his game all about?
Capoue?Chiriches?Chadli? Who looked at them and thought, yea, they will step us up a level?

We have lost King, VDV, Modric and Bale in the last few years. Replacing none of them. Vertonghen is the only one that comes close but he isnt at the level King was, not yet.

Its not the players fault but for me, its clear as day, this squad everyone was raving about at the start of the season simply isnt better then any of the current top 4.

Maybe by the start of next season we may have seen real signs of progress had we stuck with a manager for a change, maybe we wouldnt, who knows. All I know if this group of players isnt good enuogh no matter who the maanger is? Who is our world class talent? Who are our leaders?

A. Spain don't play to Soldado's strengths.
B. Capoue was looking great until his injury then being moved to CB. Chiriches has looked good for the most part. Chadli was always going to be a squad player.

I will always regret not getting Moutinho though.

 

[Dru]

A. Spain don't play to Soldado's strengths.
B. Capoue was looking great until his injury then being moved to CB. Chiriches has looked good for the most part. Chadli was always going to be a squad player.

Hence my question on Soldado, whats his game all about? If he was a real top player, he would get in the team, he would bring to our team. Your right, we dont play to his strengths, becasue the players around him arent good enough.
Capoue was looking good. Not great i'd say, but solid. Chiriches has again looked OK, nothing more in my eyes. He isnt a step up in class of player and gets dominated by any big pwerful striker.
Chadli may turn out to be incredible....in some paralel dimension, but has been seriously poor so far in this one.

Excuses. You cant have them if you want top 4.

 

[Éperons]

We shoulda broke the bank.