Summer 2020 Transfer Thread

[sammyspurs]

Try again remember use slow reading

Dele in 2020 with his level of conditioning is superior in fitness to Hoddle in 1980 with his level of conditioning ... just as all modern athletes are better than their counterparts from 40 years ago.

Not once has it been suggested that Dele is a more skilful player than Hoddle not even close ... you made that leap.

So as I said from day one, which you argued against, was that the PL is far weaker in terms of quality players.

Because as you are now saying which you also argued against, is that fitness is totally irrelevant to the quality of a footballer.

Otherwise you cannot think Hoddle is better than Dele which it seems you are now trying to wiggle into.

Ergo:
Hoddle is better than Dele regardless of their relevant fitness levels.

There you go, well done

 

[BangkokSpud]

So as I said from day one, which you argued against, was that the PL is far weaker in terms of quality players.

Which makes you confused .... if 100% of today's players are massively fitter ergo mostly of a higher quality than their 1980's counterparts, then it's blindingly obvious that overall the PL must be much stronger ...

That's 500 fitter players versus a handful of 'subjectively' more skilful players ... so which is better?

There may have been a few more skilful players - sure Hoddle >>> Dele - but overall the PL is vastly better today... I fail to see how you don't get that.

Bit like saying my car in 1980 had a beautiful wooden dash board much better than my plastic dash today ... that might indeed be true enough but does that make the entire 1980's car better?

 

[Devanteswing]

This argument is unwinnable but for what it's worth sometimes Bt show highlights of cup finals.

I was on a day off once and they showed about 10 to 15 in a row. The quality definitely takes a sharp upturn in the 2000's I remember seeing some of man utd at their peak and the football is actually pretty shockingly bad.

 

[sammyspurs]

Which makes you confused .... if 100% of today's players are massively fitter ergo mostly of a higher quality than their 1980's counterparts, then it's blindingly obvious that overall the PL must be much stronger ...

That's 500 fitter players versus a handful of 'subjectively' more skilful players ... so which is better?

There may have been a few more skilful players - sure Hoddle >>> Dele - but overall the PL is vastly better today... I fail to see how you don't get that.

Bit like saying my car in 1980 had a beautiful wooden dash board much better than my plastic dash today ... that might indeed be true enough but does that make the entire 1980's car better?

Nope, wrong again because fitness is not a quality trait or skill set.

Zidane in 2001 playing today is still 1000 times better than Dele.
And it’s not about a handful of players who even so were an infinitely higher standard to what we call world class now.....there is still the huge area of the average players.

You can’t say that Snodgrass is better than Defoe because he has more advanced training.
Ditto Janssen and Robbie Keane

 

[sammyspurs]

This argument is unwinnable but for what it's worth sometimes Bt show highlights of cup finals.

I was on a day off once and they showed about 10 to 15 in a row. The quality definitely takes a sharp upturn in the 2000's I remember seeing some of man utd at their peak and the football is actually pretty shockingly bad.

No one is denying football has changed, but that doesn’t make the PL better now.
99% of big games are a bore fest game of chess.

Im not sure how anyone can be arguing this when you look at us think we just made top 4 without winning away for half a season.
Do people think we’re good?

 

[BangkokSpud]

Nope, wrong again because fitness is not a quality trait or skill set.

Zidane in 2001 playing today is still 1000 times better than Dele.
And it’s not about a handful of players who even so were an infinitely higher standard to what we call world class now, there is still the huge are of the average players.

You can’t say that Snodgrass is better than Defoe because he has more advanced training.
Ditto Janssen and Robbie Keane

Let's just agree to disagree

You think a 1980's side would beat a 2020 side I think you're talking utter shit .... OK?

 

[sammyspurs]

Let's just agree to disagree

You think a 1980's side would beat a 2020 side I think you're talking utter shit .... OK?

Funny because I said 2000-2012 was the halcyon days of world class footballers.

Maldini‘s and Nesta’s replaced by Van Dijks, Gattuso and Keane by Kante, and Ronaldo still the “second” best footballer in the world after 18 years.

But disagree because Dele is faster than Hoddle if that’s what counts to you.
Maybe you think Sessengon is better than Roberto Carlos too

 

[BangkokSpud]

OK I'll rephrase (could have sworn Hoddle was 1980's but you know best) You think a 2000-2012 side would beat a 2020 side I think you're talking utter shit .... OK?

 

[sammyspurs]

OK I'll rephrase (could have sworn Hoddle was 1980's but you know best) You think a 2000-2012 side would beat a 2020 side I think you're talking utter shit .... OK?

Hoddle is 80’s but he’s not a side.
He’s an individual who was better at football than Dele despite being slower at running.

It’s really interesting to know that you think Norwich today would have won the PL and CL double in 2012 though

 

[BangkokSpud]

Hoddle is 80’s but he’s not a side.
He’s an individual who was better at football than Dele despite being slower at running.

It’s really interesting to know that you think Norwich today would have won the PL and CL double in 2012 though

Would have been very close, would probably have gone unbeaten in 1980 whether Spurs had Hoddle or not ... that's all rank speculation of course. The fact, and it is a fact, is that teams today are far fitter, faster and have greater stamina than they did 40/30/20 even 10 years ago ... or do you still disagree?

 

[sammyspurs]

Would have been very close, would probably have gone unbeaten in 1980 whether Spurs had Hoddle or not ... that's all rank speculation of course. The fact, and it is a fact, is that teams today are far fitter, faster and have greater stamina than they did 40/30/20 even 10 years ago ... or do you still disagree?

I’ve never said they aren’t fitter now.

I’ve said fitness isn’t a skill set and has no bearing on the innate talent of how someone kicks a football.

Have you decided if you’d rather sub on Ndombele or Anthony Joshua yet by the way?
Joshua is fitter so for you must be able to pass the ball and tackle better.

If you think Norwich today would be close to beating SAFs Utd to the PL in 2012, and doing what Chelsea did in the CL the same year (beating Barca and Bayern to win it) then I really think you are taking theory to an absolute lunatic end conclusion.

Where does this nonsense end?
Are Wigan today also better than Inters 2010 treble winners, or Barca CL winners in 2011?

Busquets, Iniesta, Xavi and Messi.
Do you think these were beer swigging piss heads?

What do you make of Messi?
You think Dele is better than Messi was in 2011? Because that’s a player who has spanned this era you are dismissing as pub football.

Ronaldo in 2011 .....You think that he wouldn’t get in the current Norwich team?
Only since 2018 when training got good he’d make their first team.

Fuck me

 

[BangkokSpud]

I’ve never said they aren’t fitter now.

I’ve said fitness isn’t a skill set and has no bearing on the innate talent of how someone kicks a football.

Have you decided if you’d rather sub on Ndombele or Anthony Joshua yet by the way?
Joshua is fitter so for you must be able to pass the ball and tackle better.

If you think Norwich today would be close to beating SAFs Utd to the PL in 2012, and doing what Chelsea did in the CL the same year (beating Barca and Bayern to win it) then I really think you are taking theory to an absolute lunatic end conclusion.

Where does this nonsense end?
Are Wigan today also better than Inters 2010 treble winners, or Barca CL winners in 2011?

Busquets, Iniesta, Xavi and Messi.
Do you think these were beer swigging piss heads?

What do you make of Messi?
You think Dele is better than Messi was in 2011? Because that’s a player who has spanned this era you are dismissing as pub football.

Ronaldo in 2011 .....You think that he wouldn’t get in the current Norwich team?
Only since 2018 when training got good he’d make their first team.

Are the 2020 EPL teams better than there earlier counterparts ... I say yes you say no ... you will never convince me that half fit beer drinking smokers made for better teams ... but if you believe that I'm OK with it there is no right or wrong ... no amount of your 'opinions' will change my view ...

Fact - players are faster, fitter, stronger ... the rest is just pure subjectivity.

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

Not to break off the current discussion.

But I wonder how the pandemic will effect transfer fees in the summer. Clubs will be looking to save money the longer the delay in play goes on so we could see prices going down. This is being discussed in German media already.

 

[stevee]

Are the 2020 EPL teams better than there earlier counterparts ... I say yes you say no ... you will never convince me that half fit beer drinking smokers made for better teams ... but if you believe that I'm OK with it there is no right or wrong ... no amount of your 'opinions' will change my view ...

Fact - players are faster, fitter, stronger ... the rest is just pure subjectivity.

Surely if Hoddle, Greaves etc were playing today they would have the benefits of all modern day training techniques.

Therefore they would be as fast, strong and as fit as todays players. Whilst still having the skill levels

 

[sammyspurs]

Are the 2020 EPL teams better than there earlier counterparts ... I say yes you say no ... you will never convince me that half fit beer drinking smokers made for better teams ... but if you believe that I'm OK with it there is no right or wrong ... no amount of your 'opinions' will change my view ...

Fact - players are faster, fitter, stronger ... the rest is just pure subjectivity.

Is Ndombele faster fitter and stronger than Defoe was?
Is every single player today, fitter than every single player 12 years ago?
And if so, does that mean they are all more skillfull?

Also regarding teams today and and teams in the 2000-2012 era, it’s got nothing to do with a team to team comparison.
Despite the fact Spurs under Redknapp would beat this current mess 8-0.

You have mocked the notion a team from 2012 could beat a team from today and claimed Norwich today would cone close to winning a CL and PL double.

You keep avoiding anything that hurts your view though.
Again, would Ronaldo and Messi in 2012, with their fitness levels of then not get into our squad today?

 

[sammyspurs]

Surely if Hoddle, Greaves etc were playing today they would have the benefits of all modern day training techniques.

Therefore they would be as fast, strong and as fit as todays players. Whilst still having the skill levels

Not hard is it?
Jesus, this guy thinks Winks is better than Perryman

 

[Spursidol]

Why would player contracts running out on June 30 (which I know many will) stop an extension to the season? Clubs would either have to re-sign those who's final year runs out, sign new players or just play without those players who's contracts have run down, no?

That's if they chose to extend the season?

Several clubs have a number of players with 30 June contracts - clubs can't force them to extend contracts and may/maynot wish to (especially s I expect many clubs will find revenues harder so wish to offload some players on overly high wages cough Woolwich)

So if PL resumes after 30 June to finish the 19/20 season for 9 or so games some clubs may be handicapped in the playing squad.

Also playing after 30 June makes a new season start of mid August more difficult.

But its all moving parts atm - until there is clarity on the virus significantly reducing in intensity nobody will be able to propose with certainty what will happen.

Spurs came out this morning (possibly just following the agreed football party line ?) saying they hope to complete the season 'when its safe to do so'. But if that becomes not safe until July and August (or even later) before its safe to resume football.....how wll 19/20 be completed and 20/21 started ?

 

[Spursidol]

Crisis discussions are on going at clubs anf FA.

- VISAs for foreign nationals in non-essential jobs likely to be halted for at least 1 year (i.e. no foreign signings)
- Players may choose to return to their home country
- Transfer window likely to stay closed over summer
- A significant number of clubs require a 'bail out' to keep operating. Expect a couple of Prem and a lot of lower league clubs over the next month to announce that they can no longer pay staff and players.

Clubs are worried that they will be stuck paying salaries to players who are unable to return to England; through fear, ill health or commitment to family. Expect the number of home grown players to increase significantly when football starts up next; with a lot of the youth team getting a chance to play.

The good news is that they days of 30m+ players on 100k+ a week are now GONE. Players WILL be forced to take pay cuts to prevent the clubs going bankrupt.

Interesting, could I ask (without embarrassing you) to give us more information on the source ?

Certainly coronavirus is going to hit football hard which will result in reduced revenues (reflecting uk and most economies which will have lower employment, gdp etc) and I predicted a month ago that transfer fees would have to fall etc......but this is ratcheting things up a level or two.

No surprise some clubs in trouble - quite a few have been paying players unsustainable proportions of gross revenues to players (say 90%), so coronavirus is just the straw breaking the camels back for them. For others its definitely a wake up call to keep player wages in line with revenues

 

[bus-conductor]

Several clubs have a number of players with 30 June contracts - clubs can't force them to extend contracts and may/maynot wish to (especially s I expect many clubs will find revenues harder so wish to offload some players on overly high wages cough Woolwich)

So if PL resumes after 30 June to finish the 19/20 season for 9 or so games some clubs may be handicapped in the playing squad.

Also playing after 30 June makes a new season start of mid August more difficult.

But its all moving parts atm - until there is clarity on the virus significantly reducing in intensity nobody will be able to propose with certainty what will happen.

Spurs came out this morning (possibly just following the agreed football party line ?) saying they hope to complete the season 'when its safe to do so'. But if that becomes not safe until July and August (or even later) before its safe to resume football.....how wll 19/20 be completed and 20/21 started ?

The most any PL side are going to lose are one or two players who were allowing their contracts to run down. That's not going to prevent PL clubs from having ample players available to play games.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

While we are here, who would win in a fight between Hulk and Superman?