Son's Offside Goal

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My apologies if this is in the wrong section

I know this kind of thing has been talked about before, and in the shit storm that followed the LFC defeat the incident seems to be largely overlooked, which is odd, given the potential impact the decision had.

The offside law is there to prevent players from seeking to gain an advantage by - in old time parlance, goal hanging. But with the introduction of the law a whole science has built up in (defences) running offside traps and (attackers) trying to defeat them, and now in the days of VAR, this farcical use of pseudo forensic science in trying to determine if a players wrist is in an offside position in relation to a defenders heel etc etc.

And what gets lost in some of this CSI drive for justice is the actual spirit of the game - in trying to make the game more entertaining, and trying to encourage teams to score goals, and not trying to teach teams to be negative in becoming cleverer at stopping them.

Son was determined to have had one insignificant part of his body in an offside position as he ran away from the opponents goal to receive a pass in a phase of play, prior to him receiving the pass that put him in a position - where he still had to work, to score the goal. The margin by which that determination was made was so minimal it was borderline comical, and I would be saying exactly the same thing had the same determination been made in the case of a Liverpool player, or any other team - because the application of that particular part of the law is killing the game in my opinion. The game of football was robbed of a beautifully well worked, well executed and clinically taken goal.

Offside needs to be re-worked to give the impetus to the attacker, even to the point where there even needs to be daylight between the attacker and the last defender before they are offside and that the attacker is facing in the direction of the goal in possession of, or intent on receiving possession of the ball. Not sure about the exact wording, someone better at this kind of thing than me can work on this and then bullet the caveats or exeptions, as long as the essence of the change is made to stop this farcical nit picking - which in my opinion is making a farce of the use of VAR and ruining the spectacle of football by robbing it of some wonderful goals.
 
VAR should only be able to rewatch in real time. If you cannot see the player is clearly offside in real time then he is onside and goal stands. People watch Football to see goals not see them ruled out.
 
It's definitely something that needs to be looked at

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For a start - he has his back to goal. Is he really gaining an advantage from having his back to goal, 40 yards out and were Liverpool disadvantaged by Son having his back to goal in that particular situation?

Yes, he did get involved in the build up play - but what if Ndombeles pass in that situation then hits a Liverpool player and deflects to Kane (Whilst Son is still offside in the build up), then Kane plays Son through and we score. It gets given.... why? Son was still offside in the build up?

If it happened against us of course and the goal was actually given - I'd be fuming and all of us would have said it was offside etc.

But when you have to slow something down so much, draw lines, zoom in and rule it out off the basis that the smallest pixel is on the wrong side of said line, it's a bit ridiculous.
 
Just puts chips on the players (doesn't matter where just make it consistent) and track them.
As for the ball leaving the passers foot- perhaps snickometer type tech? Or sensor pads.
Not like there's not enough money in football to make it happen.

Add a countdown timer of 30 seconds or whatever. When time runs out advantage given to attacker or whatever.

Just ideas.
 
Your right. Retrospectively add the goal we lost 2-3
Football doesn't work like that though. We go one up and we might defend deeper and not concede. Every action in the game is different and Kane likely doesn't get injured. Finishes 1-1 with Lloris palming a tame Milner strike into Salah's path for an easy finish in minute 89. ((I am very nervous about Lloris tonight)) . . ((Did we need another position to be nervous about?))
 
I saw Andy Gray discuss VAR in use of offside goals and the whole thing is a disgrace. I can't remember everything perfectly so I will just type what I remember. There are 3 frames in a second and passing a ball is seen over all 3 frames. First frame the passer makes contact with the ball, second frame the ball has been hit but is still touching the foot, and finally frame 3 the ball has left the passers foot. They then showed a Man City game in which 2 goals went to VAR, one goal used frame 1 to decide whether it was onside and the other goal used frame 3; as a result the goal using frame 1 was deemed as onside and the other using frame 3 was deemed as offside. They then looked at both goals more closely and the goal that was given as offside was more onside than the other goal when they both used the same frame to judge the goal.

Now onto the Son goal, that is clearly frame 3 (ball has left Tanguy's foot) if they used frame 1 or frame 2 then Son would have been onside. Due to a lack of consistency they can manipulate close decisions in favour of certain teams.

Personally I believe you want the advantage to go to the attacker, that's what football is about so they should be using frame 1 every single time to stop disallowing perfectly good goals.

One last thing, didn't Allison handle the ball outside the area anyway? Did we not even get a replay for that? Let alone VAR look at it. Now it could have been inside the area, but at least show the audience to remove any doubt.
 
If they want to talk about millimeters, then they should also talk about milliseconds of the ball leaving the player.

This is what I don’t understand. When do they freeze the video to measure for offside? Is it when the player passing the ball starts his touch to pass? So let’s assume it’s a one touch pass. Is the frame based on when the ball first touches his foot? Or is it when the ball has just left his foot en route to the player in a possible offside position?

This can make a big difference.
 
Just don't use VAR. Then accept in slow-mo replays some show decisions will be given correctly and others not.

We only have the T-Shirt law in place as a direct result of VAR.

Or just have Sian Massey-Ellis run the line in every game.
 
My apologies if this is in the wrong section

I know this kind of thing has been talked about before, and in the shit storm that followed the LFC defeat the incident seems to be largely overlooked, which is odd, given the potential impact the decision had.

The offside law is there to prevent players from seeking to gain an advantage by - in old time parlance, goal hanging. But with the introduction of the law a whole science has built up in (defences) running offside traps and (attackers) trying to defeat them, and now in the days of VAR, this farcical use of pseudo forensic science in trying to determine if a players wrist is in an offside position in relation to a defenders heel etc etc.

And what gets lost in some of this CSI drive for justice is the actual spirit of the game - in trying to make the game more entertaining, and trying to encourage teams to score goals, and not trying to teach teams to be negative in becoming cleverer at stopping them.

Son was determined to have had one insignificant part of his body in an offside position as he ran away from the opponents goal to receive a pass in a phase of play, prior to him receiving the pass that put him in a position - where he still had to work, to score the goal. The margin by which that determination was made was so minimal it was borderline comical, and I would be saying exactly the same thing had the same determination been made in the case of a Liverpool player, or any other team - because the application of that particular part of the law is killing the game in my opinion. The game of football was robbed of a beautifully well worked, well executed and clinically taken goal.

Offside needs to be re-worked to give the impetus to the attacker, even to the point where there even needs to be daylight between the attacker and the last defender before they are offside and that the attacker is facing in the direction of the goal in possession of, or intent on receiving possession of the ball. Not sure about the exact wording, someone better at this kind of thing than me can work on this and then bullet the caveats or exeptions, as long as the essence of the change is made to stop this farcical nit picking - which in my opinion is making a farce of the use of VAR and ruining the spectacle of football by robbing it of some wonderful goals.
You’re right it has become a bit of a nightmare. Son was hardly seeking to gain an advantage as he was facing the other way.
There are 2 different uses of VAR in the world
MLS which is run by exPL ref Howard Webb..they look at the frame without using the lines. If there is nothing obvious they go with refs decision.
Holland have introduced a thicker line in the picture ..10cm width. Approx 4inches. Takes out all the armpit offsides and big toes etc.
Why not..same for all sides.
Wenger who currently works for FIFA is suggesting that you are not offside if any part of your body is alongside a defender.
 
Then if it cannot be implemented properly then it should just be used for ball in and out of play

But that is what the VAR technology does, adjusts to take account of the camera angle. It is calibrated, vigorously tested and implemented properly. Just because YOU cannot have an angle that is directly in line for you to verify, because such an angle cannot exist without having 1000+ cameras, does not mean the technology is incorrect, far from it.
 
But that is what their technology does, adjusts to take account of the camera angle. It is implemented properly. Just because YOU cannot have an angle that is directly in line for you to verify, does not mean the technology is incorrect, far from it.
I am sure if they have the technology they can spin the angle round and show it in line so everyone can judge it , showing all of the offsides at an angle causes debate and suspicion.
 
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