Roberto Soldado

[sammyspurs]

Lol. There's no "sitters" and if you were there in the stands you'd see just how the TV misrepresents the football that actually happens on the pic. There's no slow motion, no time to think, no high up angles making the pitch look massive. It's fast paced with congested areas of the pitch and split second decisions.

If I said Soldado has been playing brilliantly, would you say "you cant tell unless you was at the ground"

Jog on with your piss poor nonsense. No sitters my fucking arse....hilarious.

That is comedy genius. So....NO player can have a bad game. Unless you are at the game?

All the people slating Ade, who didnt go to the game......did you call them out?

Jesus wept...."ooooh the angles, the angles"

This one is of particular interest. The angle of my tv decieved me....for a moment there, I thought he missed a penalty

aulinhofacepalm:

 

[sammyspurs]

Was anybody at this game? Im interested because Im not sure if this is a missed sitter or not as its only a stream...?

 

[CJJ]

Was anybody at this game? Im interested because Im not sure if this is a missed sitter or not as its only a stream...?

Completely missing the point, as per normal.

You judge that any shot he takes is a 'sitter' - you can't grasp how difficult it can be on many of his chances unless you see it with your own eyes right there and then. They don't have the time and space that appears on TV.

The original point is that he is a far better player than TV coverage shows - his movement and work rate is far better than many of the other poorer performing players in the team and you won't see that on TV. It's pointless me elaborating on that as you've got your opinion and I have mine, based on me being someone who goes to games and sees more than TV cameras tend to show.

 

[sammyspurs]

Completely missing the point, as per normal.

Nope...just you backtracking as usual

 

[CJJ]

Nope...just you backtracking as usual

No one dare disagree with anything you say, you go on a rampage...

Visual representation of debating with you:

 

[Dru]

Lol. A striker called out by two defenders.

If you watch most games, he has to spend most of the match helping out in defence as the rest of the team are awful at it.

Pundits say what they think people will agree with half the time, and as a fan I am happy with his contribution, besides goal scoring obviously, especially considering those around him most games.

Right, so two defenders who have a shit load of Premier League experience in facing strikers between them aren't allowed to offer up an opinion on where things are going wrong for him? LOL indeed.
I don't think you would have to go back too far in old match threads to find plenty of people questioning what he's been offering.
Yes he has upped his game in terms of pressing the opposition, making more runs etc - in my humble opinion that hasn't been the case every game he has played - and its not just Soldado, but since we are talking about him...

 

[CJJ]

Right, so two defenders who have a shit load of Premier League experience in facing strikers between them aren't allowed to offer up an opinion on where things are going wrong for him? LOL indeed.
I don't think you would have to go back too far in old match threads to find plenty of people questioning what he's been offering.
Yes he has upped his game in terms of pressing the opposition, making more runs etc - in my humble opinion that hasn't been the case every game he has played - and its not just Soldado, but since we are talking about him...

Surely you can agree that facing a striker is different to knowing how to be one?

It's like David Seaman lecturing on why Balotelli isn't scoring - it adds no more weight than any other pundit, much like a checkout girl expecting to be taken seriously when talking about how to manage a store.

They have experience, but they like the sound of their own voices. Acutally, with Carragher I don't think anyone can like the sound of his voice, not even him.

 

[Boltonspur]

Can any of you stat masters tell me the most number of consecutive games he has played since he joined us & his goal return in that period? I think its obvious he is a confidence player- like a lot of strikers. I think we can pretty much say this season is experimental because realistically we aren't challenging for the top table. I'd like to see him get an extended run in the team because I still think there are goals in this lad. His work rate can't be questioned this season & all he needs is a bit of confidence & some luck. .

 

[Wikipedia Brown]

You'll find you're in the minority here - we have a few people who actually watch sports in real life on here, not just on a stream.

Ahhh... the classic "I'm talking out of my ass and everyone knows it so I'll just bring up how you weren't lucky enough to have been born in London and gotten the opportunities to travel to the Lane" fallacy.

I'll counter with multiquote:

On a stream, Soldado is wasteful, but in the stadium, he isnt.

Don't be so dull. You're smarter than that, Cj... Though, if you're honestly trying to argue that Soldado's misses haven't been all that bad then you might be a bit delusional.

 

[Dru]

Surely you can agree that facing a striker is different to knowing how to be one?

It's like David Seaman lecturing on why Balotelli isn't scoring - it adds no more weight than any other pundit, much like a checkout girl expecting to be taken seriously when talking about how to manage a store.

They have experience, but they like the sound of their own voices. Acutally, with Carragher I don't think anyone can like the sound of his voice, not even him.

No, I can't agree it is at all like a checkout girl expecting to be taken seriously when talking about managing a store.
By that token, unless a club manager has played in every position on the football pitch and been successful in all of them, he has no business in telling a player what to do/coaching them week in week out.
I'm not saying Carragher and Neville are right about everything they say, and hold more weight than anyone else, but the fact they have both been successful at the top end of the scale for massive clubs does help.

 

[CJJ]

Can any of you stat masters tell me the most number of consecutive games he has played since he joined us & his goal return in that period? I think its obvious he is a confidence player- like a lot of strikers. I think we can pretty much say this season is experimental because realistically we aren't challenging for the top table. I'd like to see him get an extended run in the team because I still think there are goals in this lad. His work rate can't be questioned this season & all he needs is a bit of confidence & some luck. .

Not much of a link there.

He started the first 3 games of the season when he signed and scored 4 goals in 3 games.
The longest run under AVB was 4 games, around the 6-0 thumping to City, with no goals.

He then came back in after being dropped for 2 games and got a hattrick against Anzhi, before the loss to liverpool and AVB leaving.

Aside from the loss to WHam in the cup, he played 7 straight games under sherwood and got only 1 goal and 2 assists. It was pretty down hill after that, starting the occasional game with mostly getting subbed a lot.

 

[CJJ]

Ahhh... the classic "I'm talking out of my ass and everyone knows it so I'll just bring up how you weren't lucky enough to have been born in London and gotten the opportunities to travel to the Lane" fallacy.

No, you were talking as if you're the voice of the majority, so I pointed out that the majority do seem to want soldado to be given games and happen to be the ones who go to the game. The anti-soldado lot seem to live on a different island.

I wasn't born in London, I was born over 200 miles away and I moved to be nearer.

Don't be so dull. You're smarter than that, Cj... Though, if you're honestly trying to argue that Soldado's misses haven't been all that bad then you might be a bit delusional.

They've been no worse than Kane, Adebayor, Defoe, Dembele or Lamela's misses. They weren't open goals and my point is that it can often look easier on TV than it does at a match. The particular part you quoted was a twisting of words by sammy, and my original point is that he contributes far more off the ball than people realise and appreciate (or seem to)

 

[CJJ]

No, I can't agree it is at all like a checkout girl expecting to be taken seriously when talking about managing a store.
By that token, unless a club manager has played in every position on the football pitch and been successful in all of them, he has no business in telling a player what to do/coaching them week in week out.
I'm not saying Carragher and Neville are right about everything they say, and hold more weight than anyone else, but the fact they have both been successful at the top end of the scale for massive clubs does help.

But neither of them are successful coaches or managers, so why should we give any credence to what they're saying, based purely on the fact that they once played football (and neither were anything more than average players who happened to be in good teams, imo).

It's like Jamie Redknapp - for an ex-spurs, he's a cunt of the highest order and spouts complete crap on TV and Sky Sports. Experienced doesn't always make wisdom. Alan Shearer is another (if you get to watch Match of the Day) - he criticises managers and waffles on about what they should be doing, but it's like "hold up, you relegated Newcastle!"

 

[Joe Clash]

Ahhh... the classic "I'm talking out of my ass and everyone knows it so I'll just bring up how you weren't lucky enough to have been born in London and gotten the opportunities to travel to the Lane" fallacy.

I'll counter with multiquote:



Don't be so dull. You're smarter than that, Cj... Though, if you're honestly trying to argue that Soldado's misses haven't been all that bad then you might be a bit delusional.

What happened to 'let's support all our players equally' Wiki? You can't ask for everyone to get behind Pauli, and then hammer Soldado. Well of course you can, and I'm not going to argue, but it makes your defence of Paulinho look lopsided if you don't mind me saying so too much.

P.S. I hope they both score tomorrow.

 

[Dru]

But neither of them are successful coaches or managers, so why should we give any credence to what they're saying, based purely on the fact that they once played football (and neither were anything more than average players who happened to be in good teams, imo).

It's like Jamie Redknapp - for an ex-spurs, he's a cunt of the highest order and spouts complete crap on TV and Sky Sports. Experienced doesn't always make wisdom. Alan Shearer is another (if you get to watch Match of the Day) - he criticises managers and waffles on about what they should be doing, but it's like "hold up, you relegated Newcastle!"

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree that you can just dismiss the opinions/comments of players who have a wealth of experience of the league at the highest level. You might think they are average players but thats kind of irrelevant, they played against and beat the best teams in the country and in Europe between them - I think that counts for something.
Not disagreeing on Redknapp but amongst the crap he can come out with he does also make some good points.
Anyway, back to the point, I don't think Soldado has offered up the effort/endeavour we have seen from him recently in every game he's played, I think on many occasions he has been completely abject (along with other players) and I was just pointing out respected players in the game had made the same point - but that wouldn't matter as much if he was scoring - Berbatov was accused of being lazy but he got the goals.

On another note we have the player in the Premier League who has created the most goalscoring opportunities without actually getting an assist in Eriksen (31-i think) - so do you look at Soldado and argue he IS getting chances when he plays or do we look at the team as a whole and say nobody is finishing?

 

[Boltonspur]

Not much of a link there.

He started the first 3 games of the season when he signed and scored 4 goals in 3 games.
The longest run under AVB was 4 games, around the 6-0 thumping to City, with no goals.

He then came back in after being dropped for 2 games and got a hattrick against Anzhi, before the loss to liverpool and AVB leaving.

Aside from the loss to WHam in the cup, he played 7 straight games under sherwood and got only 1 goal and 2 assists. It was pretty down hill after that, starting the occasional game with mostly getting subbed a lot.

So basically he's never had more than 7 consecutive games in 16 months? Now, how many consecutive games did he play the season before he joined us, & how many did he score?

 

[CJJ]

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree that you can just dismiss the opinions/comments of players who have a wealth of experience of the league at the highest level. You might think they are average players but thats kind of irrelevant, they played against and beat the best teams in the country and in Europe between them - I think that counts for something.
Not disagreeing on Redknapp but amongst the crap he can come out with he does also make some good points.
Anyway, back to the point, I don't think Soldado has offered up the effort/endeavour we have seen from him recently in every game he's played, I think on many occasions he has been completely abject (along with other players) and I was just pointing out respected players in the game had made the same point - but that wouldn't matter as much if he was scoring - Berbatov was accused of being lazy but he got the goals.

On another note we have the player in the Premier League who has created the most goalscoring opportunities without actually getting an assist in Eriksen (31-i think) - so do you look at Soldado and argue he IS getting chances when he plays or do we look at the team as a whole and say nobody is finishing?

One point I would say is that Berbatov still only got 12 PL goals in his first season and played all but 5 games in the PL - up until AVB had left (less than half a season) Soldado had the same PL goals/game ratio and was just settling in - I think a combination of high expectations and the terrible environment (half the squad barely knew each other, Ade falling out with AVB, AVB getting sacked, miscarriage) contributed a lot to the poor opinions of his season.

With the Eriksen thing, it has to be pointed out that Soldado probably hasn't played an awful lot of minutes around that time, so you have to take into account that all of our strikers have been a bit wasteful in the league, as have some of our midfielders. We have to take into account that Soldado is only 5'9 so can we expect him to be scoring headers like Kane?

 

[Wikipedia Brown]

What happened to 'let's support all our players equally' Wiki? You can't ask for everyone to get behind Pauli, and then hammer Soldado. Well of course you can, and I'm not going to argue, but it makes your defence of Paulinho look lopsided if you don't mind me saying so too much.

P.S. I hope they both score tomorrow.

No way around it, I'm being a hypocrite I suppose... just tired of seeing the same ole crap finishing from Soldado game after game.

Mostly I'm incensed by this insane argument that Soldado is somehow more successful than Kane because he was lucky enough to be granted the chance to knock a few pens in.

CJJ claims my viewing of the games is skewed because I'm watching on a stream, then goes off and suggests that Soldado has looked better than Kane (during the AVB era no less)... insanity, absolute insanity.

 

[Maccer]

Can any of you stat masters tell me the most number of consecutive games he has played since he joined us & his goal return in that period? I think its obvious he is a confidence player- like a lot of strikers. I think we can pretty much say this season is experimental because realistically we aren't challenging for the top table. I'd like to see him get an extended run in the team because I still think there are goals in this lad. His work rate can't be questioned this season & all he needs is a bit of confidence & some luck. .

I'd like to know his shots to goals ratio while with us.

 

[Wikipedia Brown]

Jog on with your piss poor nonsense. No sitters my fucking arse....hilarious.