Liverpool (A)

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Lloris - 6 - Hung out to dry

Walker - 5 - Solid game besides stupid pass
Vertonghen - 8 - More goals than Ade now
Dawson - 6 - Usual effort
BAE - 5 - bad passing

Dembele - 7 - good workrate
Parker - 6 - passing was off
Livermore - 5 - Not good enough
Sig - 6 - Was clearly tired in 2nd half

Bale - 7 - Set up Jan
Defoe - 4 - Did he have more than 10 touches?

Holtby - NR -
 
Lloris - 6 - Hung out to dry

Walker - 5 - Solid game besides stupid pass
Vertonghen - 8 - More goals than Ade now
Dawson - 6 - Usual effort
BAE - 5 - bad passing

Dembele - 7 - good workrate
Parker - 6 - passing was off
Livermore - 5 - Not good enough
Sig - 6 - Was clearly tired in 2nd half

Bale - 7 - Set up Jan
Defoe - 4 - Did he have more than 10 touches?

Holtby - NR -

:defoe:
 
Come on mate, I like Defoe as much as the next fella but it doesn't take a genius to see he had a shocker yesterday.

P.S. Been to more than 50% of games this season, does my opinion count?
Nope, not spursy enough for Carlito! Having eyes doesn't count either. Cognitive processing - optional.
 
Lloris 5 Not very safe. Let in 3.
Walker 4 very insecure and torrid far post defending throught
Dawson 6 our best player overall along with Dembele and Vertonghen
Vertonghen 7 - two goals give an extra plus point. Rest was good but still risky.
Assou-Ekotto 5 - average performance, terrible penalty
Dembele 7 - our best all round player. Back to his best.
Livermore 4 - not up to pace. Not a DM, not an AM. We should play Carroll instead.
Parker 5 - average, a trier but a failer, so to speak
Sigurdsson 5.5 - looking sharp but was shackled completely by Liverpool.
Bale 6 - always dangerous but not much came off for him. Heavily marked.
Defoe 4 - very sparse effort, constantly making the wrong decisions. Perhaps too generous here.

AVB: 3 - imho started the wrong team and left subs too late and wrongfully.
 
Disagree tbh - thought it was reckless, largely needless, and almost certainly a foul (if we're talking about the one where Sturridge did himself out of a pen with a ridiculous fall).
Who has been our best signing of the season??
 
Yes I would agree there!
Do you think Super Jan would be a more settled player if he was made skipper!

No, he just needs to continue adapting to the pace.

I think, long-term, he is going to a fantastic player for us, but I think he's overrated by a lot of fans as it stands.
 
Lloris - 5 - Was set up to fail, but also did little to impress when it counted.

Walker - 4 - Needs to buckle down and learn how to mark and defend, or else simply move to RM. Has repeatedly made poor decision the entire season.

Dawson - 7 - Solid game, although most of the game went through Vertonghen.

Vertonghen - 8 - Excellent game. Would be a 9, but earned -1 for some borderline challenges in the box.

BAE - 5 - Poor game, but it's not really his fault. With Bale's move to the middle, he's isolated on the left and overrun, and has lost his outlet. Poor decision that led to the penalty, but it was Defoe's back-pass that put him up to fail. More than anyone else it's BAE that's paying the price for the narrowness in our current formation. Not the Benny that we're used to seeing.

Siggy - 6.5 - Decent shift, terrible luck. Coming along much nicer these days. Looks decent on the Left. If one of those had gone in he'd warrant +1 point.

Bale - 7 - Decent shift. Great run to create the assist.

Parker - 6.5 - Looking better in the last game or two.

Livermore - 3 - Completely anonymous.

Dembele - 8.5 - Spectacular game. He cut them to pieces.

Defoe - 4 - Why the fuck did he do that?
 
Walker - 4 - Needs to buckle down and learn how to mark and defend, or else simply move to RM. Has repeatedly made poor decision the entire season.

I notice you have been promoting this a lot lately. Personally I think he would be awful at RW. He has no nuance and skill to his game, and can barely cross.

We would end up slating him like we do Walcott "Runs up the line then does nothing"

He is a RB, IMHO. He needs to mature his defensive thinking, needs to learn when to track, when to stand off... When he does he can be superb.

As it is he has been a liability all season IMO.

Having him support attacks and provide width is pretty useful, but he is and should be a defender first and foremost.
 
I notice you have been promoting this a lot lately. Personally I think he would be awful at RW. He has no nuance and skill to his game, and can barely cross.

We would end up slating him like we do Walcott "Runs up the line then does nothing"

He is a RB, IMHO. He needs to mature his defensive thinking, needs to learn when to track, when to stand off... When he does he can be superb.

As it is he has been a liability all season IMO.

Having him support attacks and provide width is pretty useful, but he is and should be a defender first and foremost.

Same was said about Bale once (on the left of course)
And Lennon couldnt cross for shit once....

I actually think Walker is a better defender than he gets credit for, however, I reckon he could play RM. One of my biggest annoyances last season when Lennon was out, was that we didnt try Walker there with Gallas or Kaboul RB, and keep our shape.

One injury, to one winger and the entire structure of the team ended up on its head.

Walker is not refined, thats his biggest problem, but I dont think there's any difference between his attacking play and his defensive game. He can be as good, or as shit at either end of the pitch, imo.
 
Possibly. However, I think that if I take your statement "Personally I think he would be awful at RW. He has no nuance and skill to his game, and can barely cross" and substitute "he" with either Lennon or Bale, you'd probably be echoing the sentiments of 90% of Spurs fans from a few years ago.

I particularly remember these two quotes, which were widely agreed upon by just about everyone at the time.
"Lennon's final ball is SHIT!"
"All Bale has is his pace; his future is at LB, because he needs space to run into."

However, I disagree with your assessment of his qualities. Last year I think that was true, even if he did have a better season. In the reverse Liverpool fixture last year I paid very particular attention to Walker going up against Glen Johnson. In the first instance of Walker taking on Johnson, he faked left, then dribbled right before putting in a cross, skipping past Johnson. In the second instance, Walker faked left, then dribbled right, and was cut out by Johnson. In all subsequent instances, -- to my knowledge -- he faked left, dribbled right, and was completely taken out of the game by Johnson. It was comical.

This season he's regularly beating his man. More than that, he's got decent close control. He likes interchanging one-twos with his teammates, then launching into runs that split the opposing side wide open, like Bale. He's a very direct player. A player can be taught to put in a decent cross, but to a much greater extent, football intelligence relies on instinct. It's not as easy to teach good decision making, and the modern fullback is probably the most difficult position in the modern game. They have to be "complete" players. They're expected to mark and defend, but also be an extension of the midfield, and going forward they have to provide width on the wings in the space that the modern inside-forward evacuates in the attack.

I like the idea of Walker growing into a great RB. He's got a great engine, and terrific stamina. He can cover an amazing amount of ground, which is crucial for the modern fullback. You say "He needs to mature his defensive thinking, needs to learn when to track, when to stand off... When he does he can be superb" and I agree completely.

However, I'm not seeing the signs that he's working on that. He seems more interested in attacking and, indeed, he was quoted in the media once this season saying that he prefers to attack.

All I'm saying is that he probably needs a bit more structure. I think AVB has been careful this season to not upset the apple cart, and has retained that Redknapp-ian sense of still allowing players significant freedom. In the case of Walker though, I think this is counter-productive. He's a fullback that prefers to attack, so either A) reign him in and coach him in how to mark and defend, or B) move him to a position in which attacking is actually his primary duty. I'm sure Naughton would love a few starts in his natural position, and I don't think he was nearly half as bad in many of his appearances on the left this season as some people made out.

edit: dammit. That's what you get when you take time to write a book, someone beats you to some of the salient points.
 
Same was said about Bale once (on the left of course)
And Lennon couldnt cross for shit once....

I actually think Walker is a better defender than he gets credit for, however, I reckon he could play RM. One of my biggest annoyances last season when Lennon was out, was that we didnt try Walker there with Gallas or Kaboul RB, and keep our shape.

One injury, to one winger and the entire structure of the team ended up on its head.

Walker is not refined, thats his biggest problem, but I dont think there's any difference between his attacking play and his defensive game. He can be as good, or as shit at either end of the pitch, imo.

I think there is a big difference.

Defensively I think he is really really capable, his issues are more of the mind than ability. In one on one situations he is superb, its just his positioning and decision making that needs work. Physically he is a beast, so fast and yet also so strong, and I love his aggression. He is very "Fuck you!" and "Take no prisoners" which I like.

Offensively, however, I think he still has the weakness of mind but also limitations in ability. He doesnt have the skill to beat a man from a standing start for example, I dont think he has the movement to really hurt teams and all to often he still chooses the wrong path with the ball. Also I think he knows he isnt great attacking, how often do you see him run the ball forward, run out of ideas, check back and pass it to Dawson...
 

Fair points, though at this point I think its much more based on hope than expectation.

Its cool to disagree, of course, all I can say really is that I dont see an attacker who can defend a bit in Walker, rather a defender who can attack a bit.

At best I think Walker could be a more traditional winger, hug the line and whip in a cross sort of thing - but then in the modern game these players are becoming a rarity arent they?

Where as your full back is often the source of that traditional style width, which suits Walkers attacking sensibilities you speak of.

If he could defend better (and I do believe he can) he could be a frankly amazing fullback.

I cant ever imagine saying the same about him as an attacker.
 
Back
Top Bottom