Levy / ENIC

[Juicy Sushi]

You do, but City, PSG, Chelsea, and now Newcastle are playing a game that the rest of the footballing world cannot play. We can still beat them playing a different game, but that involves a bit of ruthless competence and self-awareness that I don't think the board or the fans really have.

 

[Raiders]

Chavs and Man City take a different approach. Rather than faking transfers and player value (likeJuve), they fake the top line revenue through commercials deals > market value which is much harder to challenge

Citeh actually went further; they designed a system where their owner (not just an affiliate) paid for the sponsorship - indirectly through various entities. I kid you not they set up a structure where they would pay an intermediary a fee, which then went through various washes and ended up being paid back to Citeh in sponsorship from the affiliated company.

Edit: I deal with this a lot in the day job and the lengths people go to set up these structures always bemused me. In fact today I read an internal credit report from a major bank about a dodgy client. The whole structure was layed out, all the dodgy companies and where his illicit gains were made. At one point it said "for obvious reasons he does not want the authorities to know his financial situation." The bank then gave him a massive loan.

 

[FightingIllini]

You do, but City, PSG, Chelsea, and now Newcastle are playing a game that the rest of the footballing world cannot play. We can still beat them playing a different game, but that involves a bit of ruthless competence and self-awareness that I don't think the board or the fans really have.

Here's where I draw the distinction.

If the claim is that Spurs should have accomplished the things City and Chelsea have accomplished (11 PL titles, 2 European Cups, 2 Europa Leagues, 7 FA Cups and 9 League Cups between them), then that's totally unreasonable and fails to properly weigh the reality that those clubs have done what they've done using financial backing beyond what even the immensely wealthy ENIC is capable of.

If the claim is that City and Chelsea's emergence as super clubs forgives Spurs' TOTAL trophy drought when the clubs own failures have been manifest, the club de-emphasizes competing in the "lesser" cups while selling fans and media on its managerial hires as "trophy-winning", in objective and in-arguable terms spends less of its turnover on its squad than ANY peer club in Europe and for good measure CHOSE to join the breakaway ESL project alongside City and Chelsea rather than standing with the game and structure and competitions that petro-doping has poisoned, then, well, I'm afraid I can't agree.

In general, rich clubs win and winning clubs get rich. But in ABSOLUTELY EVERY INSTANCE WHATSOEVER that there has been tension between making money and winning football competitions, Daniel Levy has explicitly, unambiguously and aggressively chosen the latter, and on the very rare occasions during which any reflection on that is provided for public consumption we are fed lies and bullshit whose contempt glows white-hot on the surface.

Daniel Levy's values are as clear as day to anyone who cares to see them. That might be forgivable in the presence of a well-laid and zealously executed plan to bring the competitive success that is the reason a football club exists. We don't have that, and more and more people seem to be awakening to that reality. I suspect those ranks will swell much further in the next 18 months.

 

[skywalker68]

Here's where I draw the distinction.

If the claim is that Spurs should have accomplished the things City and Chelsea have accomplished (11 PL titles, 2 European Cups, 2 Europa Leagues, 7 FA Cups and 9 League Cups between them), then that's totally unreasonable and fails to properly weigh the reality that those clubs have done what they've done using financial backing beyond what even the immensely wealthy ENIC is capable of.

If the claim is that City and Chelsea's emergence as super clubs forgives Spurs' TOTAL trophy drought when the clubs own failures have been manifest, the club de-emphasizes competing in the "lesser" cups while selling fans and media on its managerial hires as "trophy-winning", in objective and in-arguable terms spends less of its turnover on its squad than ANY peer club in Europe and for good measure CHOSE to join the breakaway ESL project alongside City and Chelsea rather than standing with the game and structure and competitions that petro-doping has poisoned, then, well, I'm afraid I can't agree.

In general, rich clubs win and winning clubs get rich. But in ABSOLUTELY EVERY INSTANCE WHATSOEVER that there has been tension between making money and winning football competitions, Daniel Levy has explicitly, unambiguously and aggressively chosen the latter, and on the very rare occasions during which any reflection on that is provided for public consumption we are fed lies and bullshit whose contempt glows white-hot on the surface.

Daniel Levy's values are as clear as day to anyone who cares to see them. That might be forgivable in the presence of a well-laid and zealously executed plan to bring the competitive success that is the reason a football club exists. We don't have that, and more and more people seem to be awakening to that reality. I suspect those ranks will swell much further in the next 18 months.

There is an awakening for many.

 

[Zomb]

You do, but City, PSG, Chelsea, and now Newcastle are playing a game that the rest of the footballing world cannot play. We can still beat them playing a different game, but that involves a bit of ruthless competence and self-awareness that I don't think the board or the fans really have.

I think there’s a chance that UEFA are forced to take action against these shitbags and lobbied by Barca, Bayern etc to take action

 

[LeParisien]

10 now

Wearing your stupidity like a badge of honour :contebored::contebored:

 

[Mick Cooper]

I have worked in two companies where the MD failed to achieve the company objectives or in reality just were incapable of doing the job as well as the shareholders wanted. They were both "retired."
In footballing terms Levy has been an abject failure in his role as the MD of a premier league football team, as demonstrated by the teams lack of success, and in probably any other club would be "retired," as well.

Our problem is that his management of Tottenham Hotspur as a company and all that it now entails has been good, as far as Lewis is concerned.

Perhaps we should just rename the ground The Stadium of Perpetual Gloom

 

[Raiders]

The fact 7 people disagreed with this shows how batshit crazy discussion is in here.

It’s a literal fact that only Chelsea and Man City have overtaken us in trophies won since ENIC took over. If you disagree then tell me which team in their history has now won more trophies than us that hadn’t before Enic took over.

You lemons

Edit before one of you try Leicester. Before ENIC they had won 3 trophies. Now they’ve won 5. That is far below our 18.

I assume this is a joke.

 

[Sir Archibald Crooks]

I assume this is a joke.

Absolutely not. Its true that not many clubs have overtaken our trophy haul on ENIC's watch because of trophies won by Bill Nicholson and Keith Burkinshaw....or something. Another truimph for ENIC!

 

[LeParisien]

I assume this is a joke.

I feel like you’re all gaslighting me with your stupidity.

We are talking about the teams whose historic trophy count was less than ours in 2001 but is greater than ours in 2023.

The number of teams in that set is 2: Man City and Chelsea.

I wonder what has happened at those teams since 2001?

 

[Mick Cooper]

I feel like you’re all gaslighting me with your stupidity.

We are talking about the teams whose historic trophy count was less than ours in 2001 but is greater than ours in 2023.

The number of teams in that set is 2: Man City and Chelsea.

I wonder what has happened at those teams since 2001?

If you are concerned that people you believe to be your intellectual inferior can gaslight you then you probably need psychiatric counselling.

I'm not sure of the relevance of the point, apart from the blindingly obvious truth that the richer clubs became so rich that they could buy squads of players so good that they were better than ours at every level and we only failed to capitalise on one occasion in that period, and that was to finish higher than Leicester when it was obvious were were better than them. In the other cup finals we were beaten by teams better than ours, except once.

 

[Raiders]

I feel like you’re all gaslighting me with your stupidity.

We are talking about the teams whose historic trophy count was less than ours in 2001 but is greater than ours in 2023.

The number of teams in that set is 2: Man City and Chelsea.

I wonder what has happened at those teams since 2001?

You understand your logical fallacy? Let's say Real Madrid got new owners, fucked up and won nothing for 20 years. Their trophy haul would be greater than everyone bar Barcelona doesn't mean the owners have done well.

 

[Dixiefish61]

I have worked in two companies where the MD failed to achieve the company objectives or in reality just were incapable of doing the job as well as the shareholders wanted. They were both "retired."
In footballing terms Levy has been an abject failure in his role as the MD of a premier league football team, as demonstrated by the teams lack of success, and in probably any other club would be "retired," as well.

Our problem is that his management of Tottenham Hotspur as a company and all that it now entails has been good, as far as Lewis is concerned.

Perhaps we should just rename the ground The Stadium of Perpetual Gloom

This sums it up for me. From a business perspective ENIC/Levy have done a good job in diversifying revenue streams. Car racing, concerts and NFL franchises will likely ensure the longevity of the business operation and indicates how the business will move forward.

This all leads to the football club no longer being the prime focus and driver for activities. If we get top 4 and associated revenue, great. If we don’t, it’s not the end of the world. Or at least won’t be in the future. A very bleak outlook whilst they are the owners IMO, and unless they sell up I truly fear for the long term future of the FOOTBALL club.

 

[MemphisWill]

I would describe myself pretty much aligned to your position tbh. Moderate. But leaning towards ENIC out as I think it's becoming clearer each day they're more concerned with growing their investment than winning where it matters to fans.
But not with the rabid intensity of some of the ENIC IN lads

Sorry, I've just seen this. You're leaning ENIC Out? Are you, really, now, JT?

 

[LeParisien]

You understand your logical fallacy? Let's say Real Madrid got new owners, fucked up and won nothing for 20 years. Their trophy haul would be greater than everyone bar Barcelona doesn't mean the owners have done well.

It would be a logical fallacy if that was my supporting evidence for the claim they had done well. It wasn’t. I was replying to someone who seemed to imply the fact that we were no longer 4th best performing team (measured by historic trophies) was evidence that Levy had done badly. It isn’t.

I do believe that Levy has done well and my supporting evidence for that is the continuous growth (until the last few years) in league performance as measured by a 3 year rolling average, even with a dip lately we have overperformed given our resources in 10 of the past 12 seasons, and our infrastructure is now world class and immeasurably better than it was.

 

[LeParisien]

Sorry, I've just seen this. You're leaning ENIC Out? Are you, really, now, JT?

He’s not a serious human.

 

[LeParisien]

If you are concerned that people you believe to be your intellectual inferior can gaslight you then you probably need psychiatric counselling.

I'm not sure of the relevance of the point, apart from the blindingly obvious truth that the richer clubs became so rich that they could buy squads of players so good that they were better than ours at every level and we only failed to capitalise on one occasion in that period, and that was to finish higher than Leicester when it was obvious were were better than them. In the other cup finals we were beaten by teams better than ours, except once.

That wasn’t my points but I agree with your analysis.3

 

[John Thomas]

I assume this is a joke.

He's a troll

 

[LeParisien]

He's a troll

I spend my time bigging up our progress and performance over the last 20 years and commenting on a number of topics.

You spend it sharing banter memes which disparage our club.

Who’s the troll?

 

[John Thomas]

Sorry, I've just seen this. You're leaning ENIC Out? Are you, really, now, JT?

Ha..It was a slightly tongue in cheek comment, actually. Sort of in response to the rabid ENIC supporters who spend a large part of their life on here defending them while simultaneously claiming to be neutral or sitting on the fence.

Thankfully , they're a dwindling community